Air Refueling - Any tips?

[Fish]

[ATTACH]58810[/ATTACH].....The boom is not dropping from the tanker? Also, I noticed when I 1st contact the tanker, i am getting a response via the text at the top left corner, but no Audio? ........

 

Agree, initial contact is text only. Pre-contact works fine but you need to be close to tanker, with pre-contact ligth on canopy rail, displaying 'ready'. You then get audible - 'ready pre-contact', lights go on and boom extends.

 

Nice changes, boom operator gives you a warning if your closure rate is high and you are close. Looks like if over 3knots. Also after a timer, off the boom, the KC will terminate pre-contact automatically, and you will have to request it again. This will be good in MP, and prevent any user 'locking' out the kc contact. I expect it was addressing those items which has left something broken in mp.

 

Other than that it works good for me SP.

[Fakum]

Ok,,, I will try again,,,, I was prettymuch seeing the rivots on the tanker a few times requesting precontact though,,, maybe I dont understand the reset with the nose wheel steering? Almost every time I requested and did not get a response, I would reset thinking I was doing something wrong?

 

Anyway,, Ive only got about 3 hours into this with no hookups,,, I have adj deadzones and curves per tips but BOY!!! As soon as I get near the sweetspot,,, I sure do loose it at times! Performance Anxiety!!!

[FreeFall]

maybe I dont understand the reset with the nose wheel steering? Almost every time I requested and did not get a response, I would reset thinking I was doing something wrong?

 

Nothing to understand really. Just use the NWS button if you have been disconnected and want to be ready as soon as possible.

 

By the way, I have modified curvature settings of my TM Warthog dual throttle as well. So subtle changes with speed are easier to achieve.

[bluepilot76]

Watch some of the YT videos to get a feel for the sort window that you can operate in. You dont need to be completely rock solid, there is a box maybe 1.5m cubed that you can manoevere in without a disconnect. I think when I realised this it took away the tension and allowed me to be more relaxed on the boom. Next thing you know youve got a tank full.

[Fish]

maybe I dont understand the reset with the nose wheel steering? Almost every time I requested and did not get a response, I would reset thinking I was doing something wrong?

 

You just need to see the 'ready' light on the canopy rail. If the connection is broken, it gets changed to 'disconnected' automatically. Only then do you need to do the reset. This might be frequent as you connect/disconnect during your first attempts.

 

With 1.1.10, the tanker may also terminate pre contact, with 'return pre contact'. You then have to get close and request pre-contact again.

 

OFF TOPIC.

This is where VAC shines, in AAR, cause you can do all the contact stuff with the Hotas mic switch and your voice, and so mantain concentration on the contact.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Fish

[Sarge55]

Nothing to understand really. Just use the NWS button if you have been disconnected and want to be ready as soon as possible.

 

By the way, I have modified curvature settings of my TM Warthog dual throttle as well. So subtle changes with speed are easier to achieve.

 

How did you modify your throttle? That's the part I have difficulty with, matching the speed of the tanker. Does it affect other flying tasks like formation flying etc?

[FreeFall]

How did you modify your throttle? That's the part I have difficulty with, matching the speed of the tanker. Does it affect other flying tasks like formation flying etc?

 

It does affect all the flying. Cannot say if it is good or bad for formation flying.

 

Two pics attached. The one with more aggressive curvature I suppose was posted by some other forum member (cannot be sure). The other with more subtle curvature is mine. Of course apply the same settings for both throttle axis.

Edited November 16, 2011 by FreeFall

[Fakum]

Thanks for the tips guys,,, work in progress! Odd thing I am dealing with now,,, every time I request precontact as im on the tankers butt,,, DCS locks up,,, I did a restore,,, same thing,, Im in the middle of loading a fresh install again,, and will get back here after resolve,,, but thanks for the tips.

 

@ FreeFall,,, which profile shown do you consider to be more subtle? The one on the left or right?

[FreeFall]

@ FreeFall,,, which profile shown do you consider to be more subtle? The one on the left or right?

 

I admit that perhaps I didn't choose the right words. With the more curvy curve (that looks almost like Z or N) IMHO it is easier to achieve the tiny speed changes needed while refueling.

[Fakum]

So,,, its the one on the left,,, thanks

[Sarge55]

Thanks Freefall. I'll give it a try.

[Kula66]

I notice from watching a few DCS AAR videos that people are constantly adjusting the throttles by fairly large amounts, you can see the engine needles jumping around or the throttles move - seems to work.

 

Is this the 'RL' way or do pilots try and find a sweet spot and only need to make tiny adjustments??

 

Interested because I seem to have a real problem staying on the hose often connecting/disconnect 5-10 times before full.

[SimFreak]

I notice from watching a few DCS AAR videos that people are constantly adjusting the throttles by fairly large amounts, you can see the engine needles jumping around or the throttles move - seems to work.

 

Is this the 'RL' way or do pilots try and find a sweet spot and only need to make tiny adjustments??

 

Interested because I seem to have a real problem staying on the hose often connecting/disconnect 5-10 times before full.

 

 

every movement needs to be small. Very very small. Trim and small movement while predicting what's going to happen and counteracting it.

To me it seems fully zoomed out view works nicely

refuel.miz

refuelscare.trk

[Count Sessine]

Is it me or did air refueling get slightly easier in the new patch? It seems the boom is more forgiving, more flexible now..?

[Fakum]

Geeesh! Ive been at it most of the week,,, Ive actually been getting headaches from the stress of sitting there having that boom in my face and trying not to move so I dont loose control. Ive had to pause and walk away from time to time just to collect myself and ease the tension. I finally hooked up last night twice after about 3 1/2 hours. I only hooked up for about 5 seconds though. I am really struggling with the adj of the pitch and roll curve adjustments,, and dealing with the throttle curves. I just cant believe how difficult a time I am having. I have to get my Cougar curves tuned better,,, its the throttle curve thats been the most trying. After hours,, I wish I have saved tracks,, because its hard to belive you can be that steady, and that close and not hook up,,,, good luck guys,,, thanks for the MIZ SimFreak,, I will try that one,,,, O BY THE WAY!!!

 

I mentioned I was locking up DCS A-10 every time I called for pre contact!, this went on for days,, I went through 1 reinstall and 2 reformats with fresh image reloads,,, still was locking up on me,,, then I decided to try a different mission,,, I actually went through several different ones without lockups,, it wound up being a MIZ I downloaded somewhere on here,, its call "Training 2.3.miz" Im not bashing it, but for me,, that locks up the SIM on my PC every time I call for precontact?

[Fakum]

@ SimFreak,,, I ran that refuel miz real quick,,, I cant find the radio freq for the tanker though?

[SimFreak]

@ SimFreak,,, I ran that refuel miz real quick,,, I cant find the radio freq for the tanker though?

 

I'm running with easy radio so that's maybe why. I just press "\" key and hit F6 - F1- F1 key.

[Fish]

.......................I finally hooked up last night twice ..........

 

:clap::clap:

Well done. Rest is downhill believe me. Up to the first hook up you really don't know what's wrong. Now you do. Said b4, if you disconnect' don't panic!!, get the ready light back on, and ease the controls to get back in place again..

 

 

And on the mission freq. Open it in the editor, click on the tanker group on the map, then on the AIRPLANE GROUP, panel, click the 'ADVANCED WAYPOINT ACTIONS' at the bottom, and you should see the 'SET FREQUENCY' action, which displays the KC frequency for the mission. And don't forget to note the radio being used.

[SimFreak]

And than you can try night :D

[Fakum]

Thanks fish,,,, Yeah,,, I dont panic,, I expect it! hahaha

 

Night,,,by the time I get proficient with this, I will have to go back yet again and retrain myself on the other things Ive learned,,,, its been a vicious cycle,,,,

[cichlidfan]

Useful tidbit (have not tried this lately)...

 

When I set up my own AAR practice mission and then blew the tanker out of the sky in frustration, it did not count as a friendly kill for some reason (justifiable homicide perhaps;))!

[Kula66]

Always best to switch master arm off in AAR ... too tempting to squeeze that trigger in frustration ;)

[Supersheep]

Jeez

I finally made it to the boom.

So you can in fact get fuel from Texaco :)

Image attached because no one will believe me.

 

That was 7 (seven) connects with ~1,500 (?) pounds of fuel

when Texaco decided to call it a day...

At least more than I burned in that time :)

 

 

And @simfreakl:

Thanks for that mission, I found it today and gave it a shot.

Nice simple setup.

 

 

 

See image below.

Supersheep

[JHepburn]

A couple of ritual things to make life easier:

 

1. Form up on the tankers wing, get used to flying in formation, match airspeed and trim.

2. When you move to precontact, if you change the trim remember how many clicks to get back to where you were when in formation w/ the tanker.

3. Put your feet on the floor (get them off the rudder pedals)

4. Remember to breath

5. Try and line up a good sight picture. I usually put the tanks engines in the canopy frame bulge. Once I move in to contact there is a cross formed in the canopy frame (see video link below - a little higher than where I am at :10 and then :40 is right on)

6. Fly the tanker (and don't watch the boom except for the green/yellow/red marker as needed) Once you're hooked up, use very small throttle inputs and remember that airspeed changes also make the plan want to go up/down

7. Don't look away while you're in contact

 

rxpUMN_Azx0

Edited November 20, 2011 by JHepburn

[skoner]

don't shake your hands lol:lol: