How come my Radar Warning Receiver can detect an infra red launched missiles -MANPAD?

[Kenan]

Anyone can explain this?

[sobek]

Integrated MLWS. It sees what's going on. ;)

[mvsgas]

Detects the missile being launch. uses same screen to inform pilots. It is not the RWR, is the Missile Warning System

1.1.0.9 Manual page 410

MWS (Missile Warning System) Window. When a missile launch has been detected

by the MWS system, this window will indicate LAUNCH. When the MWS has power, it will

display ACTIVE and with no power it will display OFF.

 

page 412

M – Missile detected by Missile Warning System (MWS)

Edited August 12, 2011 by mvsgas

[Kenan]

^^Ok but how does it actually work?

Does it "scan" the area around? MANPAD missile is not radar guided..so how can it tell it just fired?

[Dejjvid]

You can detect missile launch even without the ECM pod. Zoom in on the nose of the hog and you'll see 2 cylinder shaped thingys pointing out 45 degrees. They detect the missiles/rockets flames. And it can not distinguish between enemy or friendly missiles either. So don't freak out when your wingman launches. =)

[mvsgas]

Depends on the system. AFAIK, uses sensor to detect a rapidly moving object. Other detect engine plume.

[mvsgas]

You can detect missile launch even without the ECM pod. Zoom in on the nose of the hog and you'll see 2 cylinder shaped thingys pointing out 45 degrees. They detect the missiles/rockets flames. And it can not distinguish between enemy or friendly missiles either. So don't freak out when your wingman launches. =)

 

Sensors are also on the wingtip and tail

[Kenan]

Ok. thanks for the clarifications!

[Dejjvid]

But the system on the A-10C detects plumes only IIRC. But someone who actually knows are free to correct me :)

[PhoenixBvo]

Zoom in on the nose of the hog and you'll see 2 cylinder shaped thingys pointing out 45 degrees.

 

Actually, there are also detectors on the wingtips and on the tail. They use infrared light to detect the signature of a burning rocket motor.

[mvsgas]

:D Echo, Echo

[sobek]

Those are CCDs. The signal processor that is hooked to them probably looks for a distinctive spectrum in the signal, maybe paired with some shape recognition (but this is all pure speculation on my part).

[Snoopy]

The two black sensors on the nose and tail are part of the AN/ALR-69, Radar Warning System.

 

Per the 1A-10C-34-1-1:

The AN/ALR-69(V) radar warning receiver systems provide the capability to detect radar missile activity and missile launch conditions, and provide the following functions: search radar, emitter audio handoff, symbol separation for ID, emitter relative bearing, altitude prioritization, reduction,multiple ID databases.

 

 

The AN/AAR-47, Missile Warning System consists of four optical sensors, two in the tail and one on etch wingtip.

 

Per the 1A-10C-34-1-1:

The AN/AAR-47 MWS is an Electronic

Combat (EC) system that provides missile warning (MW) of surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles, as well as Laser Warning (LW) when the aircraft is being illuminated by a laser system. The AAR-47 is designed to detect an incoming missile and automatically provide an audio and visual sector-warning message via the ALQ-213 CMSP/CMSC indicators.

 

[Frostiken]

Fun fact - a lot of A-10Cs don't actually have the cameras installed. It's sort of like how a handful of F-15Es don't actually have Band 1.5 ICMS since there were supply problems.

[Snoopy]

Fun fact - a lot of A-10Cs don't actually have the cameras installed. It's sort of like how a handful of F-15Es don't actually have Band 1.5 ICMS since there were supply problems.

 

Yup we've got a bunch at Moody with just the metal plates installed....

[CEPEGA]

Zoom in on the nose of the hog and you'll see 2 cylinder shaped thingys pointing out 45 degrees. They detect the missiles/rockets flames. And it can not distinguish between enemy or friendly missiles either. So don't freak out when your wingman launches. =)

 

Thanks for the info, i was asking me all the time what this things are for :) :thumbup:

[Schnarre Aggro]

The two black sensors on the nose and tail are part of the AN/ALR-69, Radar Warning System.

 

Per the 1A-10C-34-1-1:

The AN/ALR-69(V) radar warning receiver systems provide the capability to detect radar missile activity and missile launch conditions, and provide the following functions: search radar, emitter audio handoff, symbol separation for ID, emitter relative bearing, altitude prioritization, reduction,multiple ID databases.

 

 

The AN/AAR-47, Missile Warning System consists of four optical sensors, two in the tail and one on etch wingtip.

 

Per the 1A-10C-34-1-1:

The AN/AAR-47 MWS is an Electronic

Combat (EC) system that provides missile warning (MW) of surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles, as well as Laser Warning (LW) when the aircraft is being illuminated by a laser system. The AAR-47 is designed to detect an incoming missile and automatically provide an audio and visual sector-warning message via the ALQ-213 CMSP/CMSC indicators.

 

 

Thx for the clarification on the position of the sensors.... but could you please lift the curtain of : How the darn MWS work :cry:

for me its very interesting if this system scans for "contrasts"(smokeplums) or for different spectrums of rays like IR or if it just detects the enourmous heat of the burning rocketmotor via IR or u have little gnomes with binoculars in ur plane.....I SIMPLY DONT KNOW .

 

and really - paul - if u dont clear it , there is a lot dangerous halfknowledge out there - mine included... and i dont like the feeling of not knowing of what im talking about :joystick:

[EtherealN]

Shnarre, I'd be very surprised if the full details aren't heavily classified. Knowing how it works is the first step in figuring out how to modify rocket motors to stay undetected, after all...

[mvsgas]

;1271184']Thx for the clarification on the position of the sensors.... but could you please lift the curtain of : How the darn MWS work :cry:

for me its very interesting if this system scans for "contrasts"(smokeplums) or for different spectrums of rays like IR or if it just detects the enourmous heat of the burning rocketmotor via IR or u have little gnomes with binoculars in ur plane.....I SIMPLY DONT KNOW .

 

and really - paul - if u dont clear it , there is a lot dangerous halfknowledge out there - mine included... and i dont like the feeling of not knowing of what im talking about :joystick:

 

As long as it works, who cares how, even in RL?

[sobek]

;1271184']

and really - paul - if u dont clear it , there is a lot dangerous halfknowledge out there - mine included... and i dont like the feeling of not knowing of what im talking about :joystick:

 

Do you have an understanding of signal processing? If not, there is very little use in even speculating about the mechanism.

[159th_Viper]

;1271184'].....How the darn MWS work :cry:....

 

A place to start:

 

Missile Launch Warning Systems are one of three systems:

 

1 - Pulse Doppler

 

2 - Infra-Red

 

3 - Ultra Violet

 

The AN/AAR-47(2) currently modelled is an Ultra-Violet based MLWS.

[Schnarre Aggro]

true that ... didnt consider classification ... in that case i should stick to the : dunno how - but im glad THAT it works"-method

edit: thx viper.... im on work so ur post came before i finished mine ;-)

[MemphisBelle]

Accodring to all these things which were talked about here. So it is really the sense of the RWR to let the Pilot know that somewhere, some miles away an allied helicopter is firing it´s Rocket? Sorry, that doesn´t makes sense in my eyes.

I always recieve hundrets of warnings. The first couple ones are notificated attentively, but then I start to ignore them. I want to go on with my things to do, instead of care about every single rocket which is fired. A further couple warnings later I get shut down by a rocket.

 

So how is that to be explained? How can I Identify an enemy and a "friendly" Rocket, if it´s not radar guided

[Eddie]

Accodring to all these things which were talked about here. So it is really the sense of the RWR to let the Pilot know that somewhere, some miles away an allied helicopter is firing it´s Rocket? Sorry, that doesn´t makes sense in my eyes.

 

Then you should be glad you don't have to deal with the false indications that RWR and MWS system can be prone to in reality. At least in DCS you only get an indication when there is actually something there, be it a threat or not.

 

The same cannot be said in the real world.

 

How can I Identify an enemy and a "friendly" Rocket, if it´s not radar guided

 

Good situational awareness combined with the mk1 eyeball.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Eddie

[Eddie]

;1271184']Thx for the clarification on the position of the sensors.... but could you please lift the curtain of : How the darn MWS work :cry:

for me its very interesting if this system scans for "contrasts"(smokeplums) or for different spectrums of rays like IR or if it just detects the enourmous heat of the burning rocketmotor via IR or u have little gnomes with binoculars in ur plane.....I SIMPLY DONT KNOW .

 

and really - paul - if u dont clear it , there is a lot dangerous halfknowledge out there - mine included... and i dont like the feeling of not knowing of what im talking about :joystick:

 

Witchcraft and wizardry, combined with a few wiggly amps and black boxes, and a bit of fairy dust for good luck.

 

Or in other words, apart from what can be found via google, much like ESCM, nobody who knows will be able to tell you. ;)