DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

[Buckeye]

I am not sure we have seen the level of detail in a map this size, in a flight-sim like this yet.... but that isnt the final say on pricing... just estimated right now... I think these maps, if done right will take as long as PFM/ASM aircraft to develop....

 

If that is the case then I retract my previous statement and I would restate to say the proposed pricing by you is fair enough. Regardless I will buy the NTTR map because I want to support ED, that's the bottom line. Still, there is some underlying strategy to pricing maps lower than planes: i.e. price lower on maps to drive interest and excitement and let that customer excitement trickle into increased purchased/sales on additional planes (at $50) to fly in said maps. It's like Best Buy, they don't have much of a cost markup on TV's, game systems, etc., but the markup on their controllers, cables, accessories, etc. is insane and where they drive all of their margins from (or did before e-commerce put them in the dumps). The strategy is that you offer a base product at a fair market price that will yield frequent purchasing and customer adoption and then you leverage that into sales on a other, higher margin, good. Maps $30 and planes $50 would be a good balance IMO.

[NineLine]

If that is the case then I retract my previous statement and I would restate to say the proposed pricing by you is fair enough. Regardless I will buy the NTTR map because I want to support ED, that's the bottom line. Still, there is some underlying strategy to pricing maps lower than planes: i.e. price lower on maps to drive interest and excitement and let that customer excitement trickle into increased purchased/sales on additional planes (at $50) to fly in said maps. It's like Best Buy, they don't have much of a cost markup on TV's, game systems, etc., but the markup on their controllers, cables, accessories, etc. is insane and where they drive all of their margins from (or did before e-commerce put them in the dumps). The strategy is that you offer a base product at a fair market price that will yield frequent purchasing and customer adoption and then you leverage that into sales on a other, higher margin, good. Maps $30 and planes $50 would be a good balance IMO.

 

 

I am not sure how much if any of that applies here with ED's business model.. I dont know... I dont like sales and sales people. Pricing is for the suits :)

[USARStarkey]

All of the other awesome features of edge aside, Ill just be happy that I can see airplanes without having to wear both my monocles.

[Buckeye]

I am not sure how much if any of that applies here with ED's business model.. I dont know... I dont like sales and sales people. Pricing is for the suits :)

 

No one likes sales people :) That is a fact. This is strategic long range planning, the key to long term sustainability and success....but as you said, we don't really know what ED business model is.

[KaspeR32]

I think Orbx for FSX has found a decent pricing structure for their terrain regions. $20-$30. They are quite detailed if I do say so myself, and a lot bigger of an area.

[OxideMako]

I think Orbx for FSX has found a decent pricing structure for their terrain regions. $20-$30. They are quite detailed if I do say so myself, and a lot bigger of an area.

 

I concur, $25-$30 would be the sweet spot for me personally.

[Buckeye]

I concur, $25-$30 would be the sweet spot for me personally.

 

Like I stated above, I also concur. I think $30 is spot on. ED can do what they want, but $40-50 isn't going to go over well and will likely drive an overall sales loss for them (i.e. the extra $10-20 per map won't cover the complete loss of sales from the people who just won't purchase it at all at that price).

[NineLine]

With all do respect to developers of older flight sims, I dont know that comparing them would be fair... there is more going on under the hood as well. If Nevada was coming looking like Georgia I might be more inclined to scoff at the price... Remember, screenshots like I shared above arent even in the sim engine, and dont have all the extra eye candy added in. But its a responsible consumer that waits to see what they are getting before giving up their credit card number ;)

[OxideMako]

With all do respect to developers of older flight sims, I dont know that comparing them would be fair... there is more going on under the hood as well. If Nevada was coming looking like Georgia I might be more inclined to scoff at the price... Remember, screenshots like I shared above arent even in the sim engine, and dont have all the extra eye candy added in. But its a responsible consumer that waits to see what they are getting before giving up their credit card number ;)

 

While you are correct, having what most will view as merely a "map" cost as much as a full DCS module will at the very least aggravate a fair few customers. PR is not ED's strong point. (Black Shark 2 anyone?)

 

Just saying that ED should be a little careful where they go here, as valid or not, people will compare DCS to other competitors.

Edited August 1, 2014 by OxideMako

[Buckeye]

While you are correct, having what most will view as merely a "map" cost as much as a full DCS module will at the very least aggravate a fair few customers. PR is not ED's strong point. (Black Shark 2 anyone?)

 

Just saying that ED should be a little careful where they go here, as valid or not, people will compare DCS to other competitors.

 

Great developers, poor businessmen.

[NineLine]

Great developers, poor businessmen.

 

 

That's pretty harsh and unfounded considering they are pretty big fish in their relatively small pond, not to mention military contracts and such outside our knowledge...

[kontiuka]

While you are correct, having what most will view as merely a "map" cost as much as a full DCS module will at the very least aggravate a fair few customers. PR is not ED's strong point. (Black Shark 2 anyone?)

If most view it as merely a map, then why are so many so anxiously awaiting it's release? I would glady give up 2 or 3 aircraft for 1 beautifully rendered map. $50 seems quite reasonable to me.

[SkateZilla]

If most view it as merely a map, then why are so many so anxiously awaiting it's release? I would glady give up 2 or 3 aircraft for 1 beautifully rendered map. $50 seems quite reasonable to me.

 

While I'm waiting for Nevada too,

 

The Ability to use all of My GFX Cards (2x 7970+1x7950) is prolly the main reason.

[Buckeye]

That's pretty harsh and unfounded considering they are pretty big fish in their relatively small pond, not to mention military contracts and such outside our knowledge...

 

It's simply just my opinion, nothing more (albeit it is a quite educated and relevant opinion for evaluating business practices and growth factors in markets). Any consulting firm would tell you the same, however, due to their "small pond" that you mentioned they are able to slide by with comparatively poor management and long range planning. To your point, they are absolutely the "big fish" in their space but I don't for a second think it is their business prowess that has gotten them to that spot. Instead, IMO, it is their superior development abilities that put them there. They are superior developers to their competition and I maintain that they are poor businessmen...I will leave it at that and we can agree to disagree, as I do not want to stray off topic here.

Edited August 1, 2014 by =Buckeye=

[OxideMako]

If most view it as merely a map, then why are so many so anxiously awaiting it's release? I would glady give up 2 or 3 aircraft for 1 beautifully rendered map. $50 seems quite reasonable to me.

 

As we get EDGE itself free of charge, Nevada is simply a terrain area, much like OrbX. If it was $50 for Nevada and it was required for EDGE access, then it would IMO actually be too low.

 

People want EDGE, and Nevada is just the initial showcase for the EDGE tech. Thus to some people Nevada = EDGE.

 

Also, I said a fair few not most. :thumbup:

[NineLine]

It's simply just my opinion, nothing more (albeit it is a quite educated and relevant opinion for evaluating business practices and growth factors in markets). Any consulting firm would tell you the same, however, but due to their "small pond" that you mentioned they are able to slide by with comparatively poor management and long range planning. To your point, they are absolutely the "big fish" in their space but I don't think it is their business prowess that has gotten them to that spot. Instead, IMO, it is their superior development abilities that put them there. They are superior developers to their competition and I maintain that they are poor businessmen.

 

You cant assess their long range planes and practices without knowing their long range plans and practices... You are judging them based on a very small window of knowledge... Anyone that might do this sort of evaluation would not give an opinion based on such a narrow point of view.

[Macka]

I think Orbx for FSX has found a decent pricing structure for their terrain regions. $20-$30. They are quite detailed if I do say so myself, and a lot bigger of an area.

 

I think E.D will love you for suggesting they use the Orbx pricing model. Lets see....Nevada map 129,600 sqkm. Thats just a little bit bigger than ORBX Wales and Scotland combined....$32.95 + $40.95. We want Airports now do we? Lets just throw in a few detailed ones like Orbx does, Las Vegas, Reno, Boulder city, Elko thats 4 x 32.95 each. And a few smaller ones at $24.95 say 6. Of course we will need accurate roads so we will throw in a small vector upgrade there....say $24. Oh and we dont want no 75m Digital terrain model so lets make it a couple of metres in cities and 6 m in desert, addon maybe $30. Hows your math doin for this map now based on Orbx's model. Remember this has been in dev for 3-4 maybe 5 years? I think I will be happy to stick to $50-60......oh thats right...I get it for free from way back in the A10C beta days. :lol::doh:

 

Edit: Those are AU current prices...you can drop 10% for USD.

 

And don't forget after 3 or 4 maps are done they'll implement the equivalent of FTX Global at a hundred bucks....ok $50 coz there's only a few maps.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Macka

[Buckeye]

You cant assess their long range planes and practices without knowing their long range plans and practices... You are judging them based on a very small window of knowledge... Anyone that might do this sort of evaluation would not give an opinion based on such a narrow point of view.

In this case, past and current practices are [assumed to be] predictive of the future...unless they have planned a massive strategic overhaul that has never been mentioned (which is completely possible). You can also read into current engagements to project what they are currently driving towards for the future. We can go on for a while on areas of opportunity (in my opinion), but it is neither here nor there. I've given my $0.02 as a consumer and I have never claimed to give a professional opinion on the matter bc 1) those aren't free, and 2) I haven't signed an NDA and been handed ED's books; so as you said I don't know what their long range plan is. I just have educated assumptions on it. There is one certainty here: ED is going to do what ED wants to do (unless acted upon by an outside source such as a consultant that helps them to build a roadmap) and I will support whatever they decide on doing.

Also, thanks for the neg reps Wags...sorry to strike a cord with you. I didn't realize you were so sensitive on the matter.

Edited August 1, 2014 by =Buckeye=

[NineLine]

In this case, past and current practices are [assumed to be] predictive of the future...unless they have planned a massive strategic overhaul that has never been mentioned (which is completely possible). You can also read into current engagements to project what they are currently driving towards for the future. We can go on for a while on areas of opportunity (in my opinion), but it is neither here nor there. I've given my $0.02 as a consumer and I have never claimed to give a professional opinion on the matter bc 1) those aren't free, and 2) I haven't signed an NDA and been handed ED's books; so as you said I don't know what their long range plan is. I just have educated assumptions on it. There is one certainty here: ED is going to do what ED wants to do (unless acted upon by an outside source such as a consultant that helps them to build a roadmap) and I will support whatever they decide on doing.

 

 

Well customer assessments of a business can be pretty varied and heavily influenced by many things, not all based in real facts... one can have a terrible experience, and the next a wonderful one... you are going to get a very different opinion from both... regardless... my point stands as saying they are poor businessmen is not based on any sort of logic and is harsh and uncalled for... when they are developing for a part of the gaming industry that is very hard to survive and thrive in.... yet they seem to be...

[Buckeye]

Well customer assessments of a business can be pretty varied and heavily influenced by many things, not all based in real facts... one can have a terrible experience, and the next a wonderful one... you are going to get a very different opinion from both... regardless... my point stands as saying they are poor businessmen is not based on any sort of logic and is harsh and uncalled for... when they are developing for a part of the gaming industry that is very hard to survive and thrive in.... yet they seem to be...

 

Agreed, I did not intend to come across as harsh. For that I apologize. I am just stating my opinion (this is a forum, after all) and I apologize if that came across to you, Wags, etc. as harsh or uncalled for. I wish ED nothing but success and I intend to fully support them as long as they are around. ED isn't my business so my opinion shouldn't matter. As a consumer all I can do is stand by the decisions they make and hope for the best for them. As I said in another post, it doesn't matter what they charge for the Nevada map because I will pay their chosen price because I want to support ED and see them continue to develop great planes for the community.

[bigcountry]

That's pretty harsh and unfounded considering they are pretty big fish in their relatively small pond, not to mention military contracts and such outside our knowledge...

 

More like the only fish. Thats why they can take their time on new modules and take their time on the upgraded engine. The thing is...there is no competition. Thats they dont communicate, if there was competition out there...be rest asured it would be different

[NineLine]

Sure this is a forum. But if I insulted your credibility would that not fall against the rules or would that just be me, having a forum discussion ;)

 

Remember, ED is not a faceless monster, real people who are proud of what they do, I would think someone like Wags would take the poor businessman comment quite personally... an attack or insult maybe?

 

1.2. - Members must treat other with respect and tolerance. Material That is offensive, insulting or constitutes an Attack Against any Individual or Group Will be subject to administrative Actions.

 

I think sometimes people forget there are real, passionate people driving the wheel here....

 

Anyways... we have strayed way far off the topic now havent we....

 

Agreed, I did not intend to come across as harsh. For that I apologize. I am just stating my opinion (this is a forum, after all) and I apologize if that came across to you, Wags, etc. as harsh or uncalled for. I wish ED nothing but success and I intend to fully support them as long as they are around. ED isn't my business so my opinion shouldn't matter. As a consumer all I can do is stand by the decisions they make and hope for the best for them. As I said in another post, it doesn't matter what they charge for the Nevada map because I will pay their chosen price because I want to support ED and see them continue to develop great planes for the community.

[Buckeye]

Sure this is a forum. But if I insulted your credibility would that not fall against the rules or would that just be me, having a forum discussion ;)

 

Remember, ED is not a faceless monster, real people who are proud of what they do, I would think someone like Wags would take the poor businessman comment quite personally... an attack or insult maybe?

 

1.2. - Members must treat other with respect and tolerance. Material That is offensive, insulting or constitutes an Attack Against any Individual or Group Will be subject to administrative Actions.

 

I think sometimes people forget there are real, passionate people driving the wheel here....

 

Anyways... we have strayed way far off the topic now havent we....

 

You are free to have your opinion on my credibility, just as I am free to have my opinion on discussion topics as I stated before. I would deem your thought on the subject to be a "forum opinion" as well. The difference would be that I would not get my feelings hurt because, all due respect, I don't work for you or ED so I have no reason to hold any value whatsoever in your similarly uneducated opinion on my credibility :) All that said, I apologize if I managed to hurt Wags' feelings or if he felt insulted. As I said above here, due to the circumstances my opinion shouldn't matter in the least on the subject to Wags and his partners and I assumed he would brush it off. Apparently I was wrong, so, I apologize. I should brush up on the forum rules. Back on topic, thanks for the discussion and thanks for remaining cool throughout. You do a great job as a mod here, I am sure it is not the easiest job to handle.

[rcjonessnp175]

Well.... Can we see more pics? I will pay whatever for more high quality maps that edge can produce honestly.

[MacEwan]

As we get EDGE itself free of charge, Nevada is simply a terrain area, much like OrbX. If it was $50 for Nevada and it was required for EDGE access, then it would IMO actually be too low.

 

People want EDGE, and Nevada is just the initial showcase for the EDGE tech. Thus to some people Nevada = EDGE.

 

Also, I said a fair few not most. :thumbup:

 

Wait, I'm a little confused now. Isn't EDGE only functional in the new Nevada map? Or will it also enhance the current Caucuses map we have now?