AngelAtTheTomb Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Brief question for realism's sake. On ferry flights (i.e. deploying from U.S. base to a combat theatre), will the A-10s carry Sidewinders and ALQ-184s? Or are these shipped in a cargo aircraft along with a lot of the other support equipment? Thanks, Daniel
WildFire Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 I'll start with two important points -I was stationed on several carriers and did a few combat deployments, however- -I am no expert With that being said I have never seen a US combat aircraft flying outside the US without the means to defend itself. Even if it was only carrying one or two sidewinders or AMRAAMS. For instance while outside the US an F-16 or F-18 would always carry something. Perhaps A-10's would fly with supporting aircraft instead, but that seems unlikely on a ferry mission. Who knows, could be totally wrong, see disclaimer 2. Of course if the destination is potentially hostile, I would figure for sure they would be loaded.
Megagoth1702 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Hold on... I am no way informed about the military so this might be a dumb question... A ferry mission actually means that a pilot has to fly the aircraft from A to B? Like 12 hrs long? O.O How the hell do they get them over the big sea? Carriers? Can A-10s start from carriers? Jesus christ. :-D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming!
joey45 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 ^^ extarnal feul tanks and tankers.. A10s are land lovers. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
Cali Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Hold on... I am no way informed about the military so this might be a dumb question... A ferry mission actually means that a pilot has to fly the aircraft from A to B? Like 12 hrs long? O.O How the hell do they get them over the big sea? Carriers? Can A-10s start from carriers? Jesus christ. :-D They fly over the ocean. When I deployed to Guam in 2003, we rode in a KC-135 and dragged along 6 F-16's. During the 8-9 hour flight they refueled about 6-7 times I think. They didn't want to get below 4k on fuel in case they had any problems. I have a few pictures of F-16's off the wing tips, they look fake flying along side us, but it was cool to see. No, A-10's can't take off from a carrier, not designed to. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Megagoth1702 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Wow man this is really fascinating. What kind of drugs do you take to not fall asleep during these flights, hahaha. Crazy shit man... And that K135 must be a freaking beast... 6 F16s refueled multiple times, wow... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming!
Cali Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 A KC-135 can transfer around 200k of fuel max. Maybe they refueled less then that and maybe they didn't get that low on fuel. That was 7 years ago so some of the details could be wrong. Maybe they only burned 4k and topped off. Maybe the pilots took no-doz or nothing at all, we left Alaska about 7am I think with it being -20 degress outside. When we got to Guam 8-9 hours later it was 90 degress with all that humidity. It was a shock when they opened the door and it smacked us in the face. The flight wasn't bad, now refueling A-10's a bit different. We refueled them in a KC-10 and A-10's are so slow the KC-10 had to slow down and fly at a 10 degree nose up so the A-10 could refuel. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Rainmaker Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 I'll start with two important points -I was stationed on several carriers and did a few combat deployments, however- -I am no expert With that being said I have never seen a US combat aircraft flying outside the US without the means to defend itself. Even if it was only carrying one or two sidewinders or AMRAAMS. For instance while outside the US an F-16 or F-18 would always carry something. Perhaps A-10's would fly with supporting aircraft instead, but that seems unlikely on a ferry mission. Who knows, could be totally wrong, see disclaimer 2. Of course if the destination is potentially hostile, I would figure for sure they would be loaded. This is actually quite the opposite on all accounts....
mvsgas Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Brief question for realism's sake. On ferry flights (i.e. deploying from U.S. base to a combat theatre), will the A-10s carry Sidewinders and ALQ-184s? Or are these shipped in a cargo aircraft along with a lot of the other support equipment? Thanks, Daniel Depends on the route and what they expect on the way. To fly from point A to B you might have to use country X, Y and Z airspace. X and Y might be ok but country Z tell you you can't carry any live loads, so they have to find a different route or change the load out. There also some international laws they have to comply with. Like everything ells, AFAIK, I depends on the situation. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Frostiken Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) When our F-15Es ferried to Italy for Operation Odyssey Dawn, they left with about 8,000 pounds of munitions each. I think they all had problems in-flight because when they got to Italy they didn't have anything. Seriously though, all I can really say for certain is that when we ferried from Lakenheath to Bagram, we carried like, a -120 and a -9 each. I think. Edited November 17, 2011 by Frostiken [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
WildFire Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Our skipper said he flew through only NATO allied countries to get across Europe/Asia. So Im going to have to assume that meant that they didnt have any problems carrying munitions. And I didnt really see a bird leave the deck without at least a missile unless we were near the US. It was a carrier and hence the planes can stay on the boat but for most of the trips we made across the larger ponds they werent with us. I think weight and drag was an issue. It completely astounded me how fast a carrier is, the fastest ship in the fleet, by FAR. When the the reactor is going full steam and the prop is cranking, shes a regular speedboat. For combat deployments we would haul a@# across the pacific and meet up with our planes in Japan, after the pilots had a nice cozy two or three days on their asian vacation. Then we would keep hauling a bit slower fully laden with fuel and aircraft into the AO. When we came home after 11 months we hauled a*# again and our planes flew all the way home from the middle east on their own. That specific cruise was around the globe so we came back to the east coast hence our birds went across Europe. Course the Air force does things a LOT different. I can only speak for the planes I seen leaving the deck.
Rainmaker Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 As Gas already stated, a lot of it has to do with DIP clearances and such as far as transcontinental and other flights go. But if look at all the places we fly outside of the US(Guam, South Korea, Japan, Ukrain, Iceland, all kinds of places in SWA, the list goes on), the non-combat sorties are still flown with training munitions. Unless there is good reason, there is no reason to fly with lives "just because".
WildFire Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Well Guam is a US territory. The rest I believe we have active airbases in and near. Hence if there was a problem in transit they could scramble local fighters in a short time. Except Iceland? I had a friend in Keflavik when it shut down, is there any more bases there? Dont think so. But not a hostile priority in anyway either.
Snoopy Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Our current rotations to Afghanistan (and Kuwait back in the day) we flew 1 external and two travel pods. We didn't ferry over ECM or any weapons on the ACFT. Of course that could change any time but norm ops currently we don't. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
AngelAtTheTomb Posted November 19, 2011 Author Posted November 19, 2011 Thanks for all the info. For now I've switched it up so that all the A-10s have an ECM and a pair of Sidewinders on the ferry mission. They get to about thirty miles off the Russian coast, and then Abkhazia after that. Plus lots of boats so there are things to look at on the flight. First time I tested it, of course, I forgot to make the player flight and the F-16 escort "invisible", so the Moskva cruiser they passed over made some pretty short work of everything. As Rick Perry says, "Oops." Second mission: observation on Ossetian rebels!
Yurgon Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 If you're really interested, you should get a copy of William L. Smallwood's book "Warthog - Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War". It contains a section about the first A-10s crossing the pond during the night in bad weather, with several aircraft temporarily loosing sight of their KC-135 and their wingmen (but they all made it to Spain in a 13 hour flight and continued to Saudi Arabia after a short break). This part should directly answer the question. The first A-10s had just landed in Saudi Arabia when they were told they had to be combat ready to fight back a potential Iraqi ground attack: When we landed, our planes had about 6,000 pounds of fuel, which is enough for two hours of cruise or an hour and a half on a cruise/combat mission. In addition, we had a full drum of ammunition for the gun--1,150 rounds of combat mix [...]--an ECM pod, a pave penny and two AIM-9s. That was it.
Evil.Bonsai Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 If you're really interested, you should get a copy of William L. Smallwood's book "Warthog - Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War". It contains a section about the first A-10s crossing the pond during the night in bad weather, with several aircraft temporarily loosing sight of their KC-135 and their wingmen (but they all made it to Spain in a 13 hour flight and continued to Saudi Arabia after a short break). This part should directly answer the question. The first A-10s had just landed in Saudi Arabia when they were told they had to be combat ready to fight back a potential Iraqi ground attack: Was going to mention this. That part of the book really showed what a suck job it was to cross with A10s. Also sucked for the tanker; had to fly so slow so that the A10s could keep up. Good book.
LiveBait Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 Also sucked for the tanker; had to fly so slow so that the A10s could keep up. Great book!! At least the guys in the tanker could stretch their legs. 13hours across the ocean in A-10A's with no auto pilot at all.................Deserve medals for that alone................
Megagoth1702 Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 ****, no auto pilot... LOL :D The book is coming in in a few days. Excited. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming!
Evil.Bonsai Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 ****, no auto pilot... LOL :D The book is coming in in a few days. Excited. You'll enjoy it. Working on creating a Gulf War-style A10 mission: night, with only IR Mav as sensor, radar and MLRS (nee, scud) targets. Maybe a 'parking lot' or two :)
LiveBait Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Maybe a 'parking lot' or two looking forward too it.
Megagoth1702 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 You'll enjoy it. Working on creating a Gulf War-style A10 mission: night, with only IR Mav as sensor, radar and MLRS (nee, scud) targets. Maybe a 'parking lot' or two :) Don't you dare putting any manpads or SAMs in there man... ZU-23s max! I mean - cmon... They would never send out A10s with just MAVs into combat area with sams and manpads... Would they? :cry: What is "a parking lot or two"? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming!
nemises Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I'd also suggest "A10s over Kosovo" for excellent amount of detail, including the ferry flights to and from. Also "A Nightmares Prayer"...not A10s (Marine AV8B's) but still fascinating!
Eddie Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I'd also suggest "A10s over Kosovo" for excellent amount of detail, including the ferry flights to and from. Also "A Nightmares Prayer"...not A10s (Marine AV8B's) but still fascinating! "Joint Force Harrier" and "Viper's in the Storm" are also VERY good for a bit of information on real world modern air operations. And to mix things up a bit and demonstrate how much things differ between operations, when we deployed the Typhoons and Tornados to Italy for Libya they flew from the UK fully armed. And all Tornados ferrying to and from Italy during the operation carried ECM pods and drop tanks (Typhoons ECSM is all internal). But when it comes to ferry flight to and from Afghanistan, they fly unarmed and just carry drop tanks. So as Paul alluded to, it can and does vary depending on the requirements of the operation at the time. Although the A-10C aren't carrying any pod or stores on ferry flight to current theatres, it wouldn't be unrealistic if you had them doing so in a scenario you built in the ME. Although I personally wouldn't have them carrying AG stores and drop tanks at any time.
Rainmaker Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 And to mix things up a bit and demonstrate how much things differ between operations, when we deployed the Typhoons and Tornados to Italy for Libya they flew from the UK fully armed. And all Tornados ferrying to and from Italy during the operation carried ECM pods and drop tanks (Typhoons ECSM is all internal). Did those initial guys fly combat sorties on their initial arrival into Italy? I.E. "quickturns" or actually leave the UK and fly south towards Libya before going into Italy?
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