Graphic engine

[EtherealN]

Yeah, I should have specified it as "within the context of aviation and objects of known size". (Since triangulation is not the only way to estimate distance, and indeed triangulation is useless in aviation, which is why I didn't mention it - object apparent size is pretty much what we get left, and that artithmetic happens in the brain, but obviously the brain makes remarkable errors when it loses context and has no triangulation.) :)

[Frostiken]

obviously the brain makes remarkable errors when it loses context

 

To back this up:

 

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question491.htm

[213]

this is one of the most hilariously misguided threads i've ever had the pleasure of reading. thank you demongornot, please post more suggestions.

[Demongornot]

this is one of the most hilariously misguided threads i've ever had the pleasure of reading. thank you demongornot, please post more suggestions.

 

I just will stop to talk about that, you want to still with the most ugly graphics rending ever ? ok is your problem, cause if you want to see any change you most not say thing like that (or you are stupid its another possibility)

 

 

I don't have read any answer and i don't will do it.

 

@Everyone :

Still keep ugly graphic engine, when you will be bored you will maybe help my by finding a solution and not simply try to kill my idea...

If you don't want better thing its not my problem.

[GGTharos]

You already said you're not technically knowledgeable about coding graphics engines.

 

Why then do you think you have any ideas that are worth considering, since you aren't even able to cost out the practical ramifications of your propositions?

[Scoggs]

The only things I see that need to be updated in the engine is the Water and Distant Ground Textures.

 

Well I mean a graphics overhaul will be nice but these are at least reasonable. Better LOD gfx for distant textures cause as of now they are kinda just blur's. As for the water, no matter the altitude it looks like I'm standing over a lake. The water should look more distant and not move very much at higher altitudes. Just my opinion.

 

EDIT. Weather texture update would be nice too. I.e. clouds rain snow ect.

[213]

to be fair, the scale problem demongort is talking about is the result of outdated shaders/bump effect and the generally lower mesh detail of the map in dcs simulations.

 

look at the screenshot of the ship he posted. the wave effect on the water is much too large in comparison to the ship, hence why it looks like an rc boat, as he puts it. this is a valid complaint.

 

if the shadows we see in edge are shader based, we may be approaching the kind of detail that would provide adequate scale. but looking at the screenshots, i do have my doubts still. the mountains cast shadows, but the ground is still rather flat and undetailed.

 

how other sims deal with this is with layered normal maps. if you get close to the ground, a noisy, procedurally generated normal map layer shows up, if you fly high, the large scale normal map created from height data is used instead. these layered shader effects provide a sense of undulation and unevenness to the otherwise smooth and flat terrain geometry.

[TimeKilla]

damn DCS style plus 20

[asparagin]

I like it!" :thumbup:

[3instein]

DCS World and Combined Arms on this would be so sweet,

Mick.

[TimeKilla]

Lets pass on edge and get this we will help pay for it!

[mmaruda]

Outerra owns big time! I just hope we will see a proper sim on the engine at some point.

[GGTharos]

While this certainly shows a lot of promise with pretty terrain mesh and trees, I'm afraid it is a long way from what we could ever use in a combat simulation.

1- Where are examples of real world location modeling?

2- Where are the towns and large cities?

3- Where are the multiple types of roads and road traffic?

4- Where are the rail lines and rail traffic?

5- Where are the power lines?

6- Where are the streams and large rivers?

7- Where are the oceans, lakes and coast lines?

8- Where are the ports and large airfields?

9- Where is the weather?

10- Where are the various seasons?

11- Where are the damage models for buildings?

12- Where are the star maps and correct phases of sun and moon?

13- Where are the crop fields and other man-made terrain features?

14- Where is fog modeling?

15- And so on...

[aaron886]

While this certainly shows a lot of promise with pretty terrain mesh and trees, I'm afraid it is a long way from what we could ever use in a combat simulation.

1- Where are examples of real world location modeling?

2- Where are the towns and large cities?

3- Where are the multiple types of roads and road traffic?

4- Where are the rail lines and rail traffic?

5- Where are the power lines?

6- Where are the streams and large rivers?

7- Where are the oceans, lakes and coast lines?

8- Where are the ports and large airfields?

9- Where is the weather?

10- Where are the various seasons?

11- Where are the damage models for buildings?

12- Where are the star maps and correct phases of sun and moon?

13- Where are the crop fields and other man-made terrain features?

14- Where is fog modeling?

15- And so on...

 

1- entire mesh is based on real world terrain, although real world imagery has not yet been applied.

2- other videos have shown the ability to create simple towns, for now, but this developer's skill would probably produce amazing procedural cities

3- multiple types of roads already exist

4-

5- can't have a combat simulation without powerlines! :P

6-

7- already quite impressive oceans, do some looking around.

8- depends on what you're asking, in terms of airfields

9- none yet, except fog. That said, ED has shown that a complex weather engine isn't needed to sell combat simulators.

10-

11- don't know, but the ground can be cratered dynamically

12- already there AFAIK

13-

14- already there

[ericoh]

This is so awesome.... I love it

[Wags]

As GG mentioned, there are many issues that Outerra would need to address before it could become a viable terrain engine for a quality combat flight simulation. Given what is coming with EDGE technology, it would be a massive step backwards.

[Chazz_BMF]

As GG mentioned, there are many issues that Outerra would need to address before it could become a viable terrain engine for a quality combat flight simulation. Given what is coming with EDGE technology, it would be a massive step backwards.

 

Take your time I can wait for this :thumbup:

[lunaticfringe]

5- can't have a combat simulation without powerlines! :P

 

NOE flight with either the A-10/Su-25/Ka-50 into urban areas *without* powerlines?

 

Hoooo-kaaay. Especially since they've been there since 2003.

[Demongornot]

One of the good new with EDGE is the possibility to global map, maybe softly modified for national security like false position and characteristic for national security surveillance radar and some other things like this, i hope one day DCS will also move forward into hybrid military and civil aircraft sim, giant aircraft producer studio like Ariane Design or PMDG can create or import some nice B747 B737 and other aircraft, cause DCS actually have a lot of advantage that MFS don't have, AFM support, communication, advanced avionic radar and interaction between aircraft.

 

I wonder be able to create some new aircraft but it was actually not possible, and i hope that we will be able to see several civil ship created by third party and also by amateurs or for free from third party cause it risk to become really expensive.

Anyways i just hope EDGE won't take too much time to be born.

[Weta43]

1- entire mesh is based on real world terrain, ( ... ) this developer's skill would probably produce amazing procedural cities

But though the underlying terrain mesh is modelled on the real world, over this you still would have procedural cities, and procedural ( not representative of the real world ) scenery.

 

I think it looks stunning, and if you're happy to have a semi-imaginary world - that's fine (no sarcasm or judgement intended here).

If you want to get to where you can recognise the sim scenery from real world scenery, there needs to be less reliance on the procedural generation.

[159th_Falcon]

One of the good new with EDGE is the possibility to global map, maybe softly modified for national security like false position and characteristic for national security surveillance radar and some other things like this, i hope one day DCS will also move forward into hybrid military and civil aircraft sim, giant aircraft producer studio like Ariane Design or PMDG can create or import some nice B747 B737 and other aircraft, cause DCS actually have a lot of advantage that MFS don't have, AFM support, communication, advanced avionic radar and interaction between aircraft.

 

I wonder be able to create some new aircraft but it was actually not possible, and i hope that we will be able to see several civil ship created by third party and also by amateurs or for free from third party cause it risk to become really expensive.

Anyways i just hope EDGE won't take too much time to be born.

 

 

Well Said, +1.

 

BTW, can anyone confirm EDGE is (should) be capable of a global map?

Any links to a statement from ED staff on this?

[Moburma]

Mentioning Battlefield 3 is interesting - although totally an apples and oranges comparision, one thing I found annoying when first getting into DCS World was the lack of detail in ground textures. Although the flight model in BF3 is of course completely unrealistic, the high level of graphical fidelity actually does have "realism" benefits over DCS - I would frequently rely on the detail in the BF3 textures to instinctively know how close I was to the ground when flying helicopters etc. This threw me for six when getting in to DCS world ( I hadn't played a hardcore sim for a good decade before!) as the level of fidelity was so much poorer on that front - information you'd have both in real life and in graphics heavy games like BF3 was missing.

 

Having said this, in BF3 the edges of the maps (where only aircraft can go) have deliberately low res textures and transition between the two would knock my sense for six all the time as again my internal sense of altitude would have to be recalibrated crossing that line.

 

I remember reading an interview with real pilots in the mid ninties talking about this as being one of the major failings of flight simulators then (and although crude the military grade ones were way beyond home sims like F-15 Strike Eagle etc), so I think it is one area where graphical "fluff" has a real benefit.

[Demongornot]

Well Said, +1.

 

BTW, can anyone confirm EDGE is (should) be capable of a global map?

Any links to a statement from ED staff on this?

 

A graphic engine correctly optimized don't care about the full map but only about what it rendering and preload, nothing else, after this, create a globe its not an hard task, look at Kerbal Space Program or Orbiter or even Space Shuttle Mission 2007, they show the solar system with possibility to go to any planed, maybe the graphic was not really good but its not a big graphic engine and it was only optimized for space, MFS can do and X Plane can also.

 

Even Cry Engine have actually show that it is possible to show really big scenery with high level of detail, correctly optimized a graphic engine will calculate the more complex in a short radius, use a simplified version for a little bit more range or high speed camera moving, and medium/long range can be identical to Aerofly Pro FS.

Its not cause we need huge rendering distance that we need to show a car 1000Km away or even to calculate it, unlike what people say, CryEngine or Unreal Engine was completely capable to rendering the full globe with high level of details at short range and photorealistic in single simplified texture with almost no 3D object at medium/long range.

In fact every big graphic engine today are capable to do it, its become easy to show full details in a limited radius and use simplified version for the long range, even if it was 10000Km away cause it was simplified, exactly like Aerofly Pro FS do, and big graphic engine can do better.

The only reason why they don't do it its cause they don't need to, video game don't need map big like this and it was really long to create a really big map with high level of detail and maybe 10 different level of details including 3 with object and 7 other with texture only, but with auto generated terrain created by a software who will using real life data and image for create a correct reproduction of the global map it was possible.

 

So yes, EDGE if it was good like dev team say will be able to rendering global map.

[Suchacz]

Comparison of a Batumi surroundings by PeterP

 

 

IMHO this comparison is a little bit unfair, because Outerra is still in beta. It's not a game, it's only a engine, tool for sim/game developers. DCS is a finished and polished product.

 

Btw Outerra can simulate any evironment all over the world, from the bottom of the sea up to the orbit and maybe beyond, all together in one game.

[shagrat]

With this answer I guess the whole discussion gets pointless again...

 

Given what is coming with EDGE technology, it would be a massive step backwards.

 

...and actually I trust his knowledge about what they develop and what it's capable of, more than the usual beta marketing for "new products" that can do everything :music_whistling:

I've heard plenty marketing guys promise features and functions for software "being on the roadmap" or "is coming in the next release".

Let's wait for EDGE and then compare it to the competitors, or even better: to our needs. :thumbup: