The Cube

[BHawthorne]

For the rear projection screen you might consider using a more sturdy material (e.g. acrylic sheet suitable for rear projection).

I use Plexiglas Crystal Ice White WM500 SC from plexiglas-shop.com for my setup. (unfortunately it seems that this very material is only available in europe)

The sturdy material gives you other options as fabric materials for building the supporting frame: I built my 3 screen setup without distracting vertical frames between the screens. You can see my 3 screen setup (but currently I use only the center screen) on the first picture in this post: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1475540

 

The motivations for using Tendo fabric is that you'd only need a very thin frame to support stretch cloth screen material. It's also very cheap per linear yard compared to other options. Also if your frame is collapsible, you could just fold up the screen material and disassemble it like a tent. Maybe use slivers of clear acrylic sheet or clear acrylic rod for the frame? That'll still get a bit expensive compared to other materials, but it wouldn't totally obscure the projection with the frame. Interesting idea for acrylic use.

Edited July 5, 2012 by BHawthorne

[y2kiah]

http://smarttech.com/us/Solutions/Projectors

 

We have a few of these at work, they have a special mirror in front of the lens that starts off looking parabolic and flattens out toward the other edge. It takes room size and projector throw out of the equation since you just mount the projector directly above your screen. Those of us with CNC machines could cut the backing structure for the mirror surface, if someone were to work out the math.

[BHawthorne]

http://smarttech.com/us/Solutions/Projectors

 

We have a few of these at work, they have a special mirror in front of the lens that starts off looking parabolic and flattens out toward the other edge. It takes room size and projector throw out of the equation since you just mount the projector directly above your screen. Those of us with CNC machines could cut the backing structure for the mirror surface, if someone were to work out the math.

 

The lens throw for those are actually too short to work on curved screens. My suggestion is a mix of standard ultra short throws and custom first surface mirror mount designs. That way you have proper control over the screen projection coverage and can tailor it to what is exactly needed.

[y2kiah]

not for curved screens, this thread is titled "The Cube"

[Flim]

Y2, cool idea for a small room!

[PeterP]

It might...

 

gt 720 4.5 feet= 87 inch screen

 

 

My advise is to make a drawing of your room (with e.g. sketchup) - and place the short-throw projectors also inside - including their projection beams.

So you can visualise yourself what projection space you will need to cover the room.

 

 

Once you got this roughly nailed down you can start to calculate how the protection surface has to be in dimension.

And you will even be able to calculate/visualize how to warp the image of DCS.

 

When this is done - you can write some test "MontorSetup".lua that fulfils your need.

 

 

Here are example images how I have done it some time ago

 

You would be also be able to texture this model in the end - and place your camera-view at your head-position to simulate what you would see in the end.

 

 

- I was able to nail everything very well down without having to do a single experiment in the real world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2012 by PeterP

[BHawthorne]

To optimize the ability to throw distance on the projectors I suggest aligning the cube 45 degrees to the wall corners and putting the projector into the corners.

[Flim]

Good idea, I will cad something up ...

[PeterP]

The cube

 

Hi Flim!

 

I used all data that you have given to me to "simulate" what you can expect when you will use four projectors.

 

Your data:

room is 10x12

Projector is the optoma gt 720

WXGA (1280 x 800)

Throw Ratio 0.72:1 (Distance/Width)

cockpit is 40 x 60 inches

 

The "simulation":

 

 

 

I used this monitorsetup-lua with a res of 5120x800:

 

 

= function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Flim Cube');

Description = 'Configuration with 4 identical monitors each with its own camera'

Viewports =

{

 

Center =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 4;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 4;

},

 

 

Right =

{

x = screen.width / 4;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 4;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 1.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 4;

},

 

 

 

Back =

{

x = screen.width * 2 / 4;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 4;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 2.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 4;

},

 

 

left =

{

x = screen.width * 3 / 4;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 4;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = -1.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 4;

}

}

 

 

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

 

 

and Edited line #1060 in the DCS WorldConfigViewSnapViewsDefault.lua

To set the starting FOV to 90°. because: each View-port 90° = 360° / 4

 

Snap[11][13]["viewAngle"] = 90.0

You can download the used Sketchup8 file and also the both LUAs from here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1ueqk43r173miok

 

 

 

Watch this for comparison:

 

 

Well, it is also possible to add a 5th view-port that covers the front-top view... we would need to get the projectors at the roof out of the way and this means we would have to use a back-projection... but your room isn't made for it!

Edited July 25, 2012 by PeterP

[Flim]

Wow, you are the sketchup man!

This will be awesome if this works as well as above... I started collecting projectors, so when the room is built, then I will most certainly post the results.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Please do, I'm quite interested in how it will turn out!!

[PeterP]

Here is a another Demo showing a 5 projector setup (Ideal for a eyefinity 6 set-up):

 

The used render is 3840x1600 - 5 view-ports 1280x800.

 

 

The used MonitorSetup.lua:

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('big top front');

Description = 'Configuration with 5 identical monitors each with its own camera'

Viewports =

{

 

Center =

{

x = 0;

y = 800;

width = 1280;

height = 800;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1.6;

},

 

Front_top =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = 1280;

height = 800;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 1;

aspect = 1.6;

},

 

 

Right =

{

x = 1280;

y = 800;

width = 1280;

height = 800;

viewDx = 1.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1.6;

},

 

 

 

Back =

{

x = 1280;

y = 0;

width = 1280;

height = 800;

viewDx = 2.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1.6;

},

 

 

left =

{

x = 2560;

y = 0;

width = 1280;

height = 800;

viewDx = -1.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1.6;

}

}

 

LEFT_MFCD =

{

x = 2560;

y = 800;

width = 300;

height = 300;

}

 

RIGHT_MFCD =

{

x = 3540;

y = 800;

width = 300;

height = 300;

}

 

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

 

 

BTW: if you higher the FOV a little- lets say 92° instead of 90° you get a nice overlap of each view-port that can be blended into each other using a special software or mounting a little stripe of fussy stuff at just before the lens of the projector - so the sides of the beam get blurred a little.

Than you can make a small even radius in the corners of your room - so you will not notice them so much any more.

 

 

The projector for the top-view can be placed at the floor in front of the pit -facing up - or using a mirror.

 

Flim,

I posted this only to give others some more inspiration

- this cant be done in your room...- sorry -

as I mentioned before:

It is not possible because - you need canvas over your head...

But this will distract the beams of the other projectors...

 

This is only doable with back-projection and a bigger room than yours.

:)

Edited July 25, 2012 by PeterP

[Flim]

Well, I have a bigger room if need be... but I want to give the smaller room a shot first.

It is interesting to find out that cross projecting does not affect the outcome of the presentation. Learn something new every day! I guess since light is not a particle, then there is not collision or interference.

[metalnwood]

Without track ir I would have to say I would feel like I was at a disadvantage if I had not top view. Given how often I would be turning a tight circle and looking up (which in my bank would give me a view of the ground I am turning towards) I would feel like my targets have snuck up on me as they would just come in to view quickly rather than tracking them.

 

Not sure how well I explained that but I reckon top view is used a lot to miss out on it.

[Flim]

Ya, I will do a top view ... a must have!

 

Hey Bhawthrone, are you around to test this?

[Weltensegler]

I almost bought projectors for my pit but then finaly all those 55" screens...big mistake :)

This looks all very promising.

Curious how this works out for you, Flim!

[PeterP]

Ya, I will do a top view ... a must have!

 

 

Hi Flim,

 

sounds good!

 

Some things to consider...

as don't know how big your other room really is.

 

There is a kind of workaround to "look up":

 

Let me explain-

 

Before I moved (and the marriage) I borrowed 3 projectors two and a half year ago to make a test-build for a very similar setting in my sleeping room (10x10 ft)by simply projecting on the walls.

:)...try to explain such things to your partner that you wont leave the building for three days and also not having a functional bed any more... :):P

 

-whatever-

 

I overcome the "looking-up" issue by disabling all

TrackIR axis - I just let the vertical pitch-axis on and set a big dead-zone.

The outcome was that I had a steady view when locking around to the sides ,but only when I looked up-front the Track-ir did come in play.

 

And this worked really well after a short learning-time.

 

 

------

I tell this because I played around with the model last night a little - and it was impossible for me to find a way to place the 5th projector/canvas in your room without distracting the other beams or don't let the projectors/pit cast shadow ...

 

Short : I think that it is really impossible to solve this riddle of the 5th projector in your small room -even if you would use big first-surface mirrors.

 

The only setting that makes sense, while keeping the used space small is a setup like pictured below.

18x26 feet (!) (OK- this can get a little smaller by using big mirrors and/or placing the setup diagonal in a squared room- but not really much)

 

 

But than you have to count also in that your needed material for the canvas will be much more expensive...

 

 

I don't want to smaller your enthusiasm - but you have to think about it 20 times before you start your first practical step - so you can't be surprised by nasty things you have overlooked or even never thought about.

 

Please start to play around with the attached SketchUp file - to see what can be done.

 

And whatever you do: Stay inside the limits of the projector. - it is not a good idea to "tweak" something that may works in the model .- but cant be done in RL.

(also start to think about a good ventilation/fresh-air supply early. or you will end up not only having a simulator - it will be also a sauna! )

And it is even more disappointing to realise this when you already started to build it. - and this can also be very expensive!!

 

I hope you get my point.

 

:)

 

 

Edit - would be nice if anyone with a top-notch GPU and system could do some "benchmarks" with this 5-viewport setting that I have posted in #37.

 

I "only" get around a max 15FPS. this was on a HD6870 2GB in full-screen together with SoftTH while I "squeezed" the 3840x1600 pixel on a 3840x1024 area.

Edited July 26, 2012 by PeterP

[Weltensegler]

Sure! That's actually exactly what I need after 3h of lua scripting! :)

Also my pit has Flim's seat so I'm glad to do some performance tests for him.

 

Ok Flim here we go.

Since I don't have a TH2GO, two of my six monitors would be non-local so I did the test with four BUT I think I compensated for it :)

 

I did 4x1920x1080 (7680x1080) with MFDs on top and I left out the top since that one would be the least intense concerning rendering.

Also I used High settings on everything (except water=medium) and 4xAA, cockpit shadows, 4km trees

 

with still 26-27fps in the first A10 instant mission

(the other few to get over a stable fixed 30 you probably get by using something not on high that I did)

(might not be thrilling over a city I guess :) )

 

I reached only 2182MB video memory

(but I didn't use my scripted viewing distance/detail ranges which you probably will manipulate too)

VAC,Helios etc. on top will lift that also by a few hundred.

If you stick to your front panel I guess not more than 200MB all together.

 

On my pit settings with all my high settings and modded files and 2 more indicators and Helios etc on 5 screens (3xsim; 1x exports and Helios; 1x Helios only)I come to ~3430MB.

 

My rough setup is in my signature.

Note that the GPU I used for those 4 screens is not even overclocked which you could do with some hydro chopper or similar cooling.

 

My CPU(2600K) is stock 3.3GHz I think and reaches only 65C @4,9GHz at full load with a corsair H100 cpu cooling also not maxed out.

DCS is not considered full load though and I had it on 4,6GHz for this test.

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Peter&Flim\'s');

Description = 'Configuration with 3x1080p & 1x1200p identical monitors each with its own camera and MFDs ontop'

Viewports =

{

 

Center =

{

x = 1920;

y = 0;

width = 1920;

height = 1080;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1920/1080;

},

 

--[[Front_top =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = 1280;

height = 800;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 1;

aspect = 1.6;

},]]

 

 

Right =

{

x = 3840;

y = 0;

width = 1920;

height = 1080;

viewDx = 1.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1920/1080;

},

 

 

 

Back =

{

x = 5760;

y = 0;

width = 1920;

height = 1080;

viewDx = 2.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1920/1080;

},

 

 

left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = 1920;

height = 1080;

viewDx = -1.0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1920/1080;

}

}

 

LEFT_MFCD =

{

x = 2560;

y = 800;

width = 300;

height = 300;

}

 

RIGHT_MFCD =

{

x = 3540;

y = 800;

width = 300;

height = 300;

}

 

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

 

 

I hope that helps a bit!

I think you can get a system that runs your setup sufficient especially if you were ok with PeterP's resolution.

 

Good luck! can't wait to see pics!

Edited July 31, 2012 by Weltensegler

[phant]

Look at this 3 HD VPR working project (iRacing):

 

 

Setup Photo

 

Bye

Phant

[PeterP]

Hi Flim,

 

I had another try to make the up-view work for your small room - and its working with some compromises.

 

The side-projectors have to be placed under the canvas of the up-projection and they will cast a shadows (marked in red)

You will probably also have to use a mirror .

And we have to drop the back-view. There is no possibility to make it fit with the up projection - or you find a "Ultra-urlta-super"-short-throw projector that

can be placed behind the pit/seat.

:)

 

 

Look yourself:

 

 

The SketchUP file is attached.

Cube final.zip

 

This is the used DCS render:

Edited December 31, 2012 by PeterP

[Flim]

Your on a roll Peter, thanks for all the prep work!

 

I'm currently looking for projectors etc... also I will build another PC for the visuals and use my current for Helios and cockpit stuff.

[PeterP]

I had a "eureka" moment today in the bathroom.

 

I got a idea how to use the side-projection also for the back-view.

 

It will make it possible to use a 330° in-game render - so you can have a look over your shoulder.

 

The principle behind this is very simple but a pain when you want to write a fitting Monitorsetup-lua...

 

Here it is:

 

 

 

 

 

 

DCS render 6400x800 (5x 1280x800):

 

 

 

 

 

The monitorsetup-lua:

 

Its optimised for a eyefinity 5 set-up 6400x800 and also includes a empty space for avionics. it uses 6Viewports (can be cut down to 5 when Softth is used.)

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Flim test big');

Description = 'Crazy stuff'

Viewports =

{

center =

{

x = 1280;

y = 0;

width = 1280;

height = 1280;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1;

},

 

 

back_left =

{

x = 2120;

y = 0;

width = 660;

height = 1280;

viewDx = -2;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1;

},

 

 

left =

{

x = 2780;

y = 0;

width = 1060;

height = 1280;

viewDx = -1;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1;

},

 

 

 

 

top =

{

x = 3840;

y = 0;

width = 1280;

height = 1060;

viewDx = 2;

viewDy = 1;

aspect = 1;

},

 

 

right =

{

x = 5120;

y = 0;

width = 1060;

height = 1280;

viewDx = 1;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1;

},

 

back_right =

{

x = 6180;

y = 0;

width = 660;

height = 1280;

viewDx = 2;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1;

},

}

 

GUI =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = 1024;

height = 768;

}

 

UIMainView = GUI

 

 

 

 

Well, I got suprisingly 15FPS fling over Tibilis on my HD6870 2G - but my V-ram was also used totally.

So you will have defiantly look for a 4GB model.

 

The back may gets a little blurred and distorted at the sides (because of the angel of the projector beams) - but it is better as no back-view at all.

You can see at the end of the vid what portion is missing.

 

This both stripes in the back cover each 30° of the in-game render.

 

Final SketchUp file is attached.

 

 

 

Now It's your turn Flim!!! :)

Edited July 27, 2012 by PeterP

[Flim]

A lot of different options to test now! It will be a little while before I can do complete test, but in the mean time I will be collecting projectors etc...

 

Thanks again Peter for the hard work!

[BHawthorne]

I'm liking the direction this thread is heading. Some very cool camera configurations. I'm re-configuring a simulator at a museum and I gain two more spare projectors now. I have 6 laying around. I'm in the process of sheetrocking and insulating a shop at the moment. Once it has climate control in, I'm going to be playing with some of these ideas IRL. I have from now till September 29th to get my F-84F cockpit ready for Cockpit Fest USA. After that and the shop being functional I expect some fun projects this fall.

[Dropship Pilot]

Peter,

 

I had a look at your last sketch of the projector setup. I may be missing something, but wouldn't it be better to place the projectors behind the screens (I'm not talking rear projection here!)? That way you'd have only the lens area with no projection and no shadows of the projectors themself. Sure, with a given room size, the projection volume get's smaller as you can't use the room walls as screens. However, I don't see an immediated disadvantage in that other than that you have to build separate screens to project on.

 

Cheers,

Stefan

Edited August 7, 2012 by Dropship Pilot