Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[average_pilot]

Can someone explain how gauges are unreadable on a DK2 or CV1 with a resolution as high or higher than a 1080P monitor which has no problems showing clear gauges? Assuming no SDE is visible I don't see how the gauges would be unreadable at 2160x1200 when they are perfectly clear and readable at a much lower 1080P on my monitor.

With a FOV of about 100 degrees everything gets very small. In-game FOV and VR headset FOV must be matched for 1:1 scale rendering.

If you look at videos of DK2 with DCS you can see how wide that FOV looks like in a normal monitor and how small all the labels, letter, needles, etc look like. Just a few pixels for each thing.

 

This, for instance:

Edited March 21, 2016 by average_pilot

[_Acoustic_]

@average pilot, thanks for that video, that seems to answer my question. I can guess and it seems like if you zoom out almost completely on a normal monitor we'll have an idea about the "view" we will have.

[Glowing_Amraam]

^^^^

 

I've had the DK2 since 2014, and the view is not distorted at all inside the rift. Same for the Vive.

The FOV is around 100 on the DK2, bumped up to approx 110-ish for the Rift/Vive CV1.

 

Oh and to fill in, I have the Samsung S7 Edge phone, and I got the Samsung Gear VR shipped with the phone, and the display on the phone is pretty identical to what you will see inside the Rift/Vive. The SDE is less than that of the DK2, but it's not gone. But once you're immersed in the game, you quickly forget about it, so for CV 1 this is not an issue (IMO).

Edited March 21, 2016 by Glowing_Amraam

[Vladdo]

But, you're also not getting 2160x1080 per eye.. it's 2160x1080 across both eyes, so in reality it's 1080x1080 per eye..

[Glowing_Amraam]

S7 edge screen: 1440 x 2560 pixels (when flipped horizontaly its 2560 x 1440).

Rift screen: 2160 x 1200

 

Or am I totally missunderstanding something? :D

 

Also, don't forget:

 

"The Rift and Vive both come outfitted with vibrant OLED displays, each of which offers 1080 x 1200-pixel resolution for each eye. Said displays bring the final pixel resolution to 2160 x 1200, with 90Hz refresh rates".

Edited March 21, 2016 by Glowing_Amraam

[Frusheen]

@average pilot, thanks for that video, that seems to answer my question. I can guess and it seems like if you zoom out almost completely on a normal monitor we'll have an idea about the "view" we will have.

 

This is a video I did which has the in game FOV set to approximate the view in the rift. Obviously without the 3D or the fact it fills most of your vision but it gives an idea. The other video is not as accurate as it is only a render of 1 eye. The distortion at this FOV is obvious on a monitor but is not present when viewed in the rift.

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Frusheen

[_Acoustic_]

Thanks Frusheen! That is excellent, really helps me out with trying to get used to what will be the new norm as far as getting away from zoom +/- and being closer to the HUD then I should be (20+ years of doing so... lol)... which surprisingly only has took about 2/3 missions of setting it further away and not zooming in ever to get used to it and now I actually prefer it that way. If I have to read something then I'll lean in, if not then I can see and ballpark pretty darn close what the instrument is saying.

[DerekSpeare]

[hansangb]

Thanks for that. Fascinating. I found this interesting:

 

Q: Does the DX12 support make a big difference? I'm still on Win7 and have a GTX 970, I'm wondering if upgrading to 10 would improve the performance at all.

A: You should see a slight performance boost with games running on DX12 but Rift games are made to reach 90fps on a 970 anyway.

:)

[spazmo]

Can someone explain how gauges are unreadable on a DK2 or CV1 with a resolution as high or higher than a 1080P monitor which has no problems showing clear gauges? Assuming no SDE is visible I don't see how the gauges would be unreadable at 2160x1200 when they are perfectly clear and readable at a much lower 1080P on my monitor.

 

There's two parts to this.

 

Firstly, the screen is split down the middle, with each side showing a slightly different image for each eye. This is how you get the 3d effect. It means that you are only seeing the image at 1080x1200 resolution, although you get two slightly different perspectives of the same image. Special lenses in the headset make each half of the image "fill" up your eyesight and make it seem like you're really there (at least up to ~100° FOV).

 

Secondly, on that smaller half resolution screen, you are seeing a wider field of view than you probably showed before. The horizontal FOV rendered in the headset will probably be somewhere between 100°-110°, whereas most FPS games are somewhere between 75°-90°. That means that the number of pixels per degree is even worse.

 

So you've got a wider FOV crammed onto a much smaller resolution screen. I found the DK2 to be *incredibly* immersive and fun, but very difficult to read gauges, see runways in the distance, or read HUD information. I'm hoping the CV1 will be an improvement but what I've read says that the resolution isn't a massive jump, even though the screen-door effect is greatly improved.

Edited March 22, 2016 by spazmo

[hannibal]

Thanks for that. Fascinating. I found this interesting:

 

Q: Does the DX12 support make a big difference? I'm still on Win7 and have a GTX 970, I'm wondering if upgrading to 10 would improve the performance at all.

A: You should see a slight performance boost with games running on DX12 but Rift games are made to reach 90fps on a 970 anyway.

:)

 

yea, maybe after DCS 2.0 integration, eagle dynamics will seriously consider moving to DX12. but for now, its going to be DX11 until DCS 2.0 is stable.. no point in rushing into DX12 , that will just make the transition that much longer

[Enduro14]

yea, maybe after DCS 2.0 integration, eagle dynamics will seriously consider moving to DX12. but for now, its going to be DX11 until DCS 2.0 is stable.. no point in rushing into DX12 , that will just make the transition that much longer

 

Longer maybe, but I think it would be worth it. Dx11 hasn't made VR work miraculously yet in 2.0. Hope it changes in the next month.

[Vladdo]

On my 980ti & DK2, I have no problems achieve 90fps (ie, no judder) when i'm out in the desert. However, when you go flying down the strip, there's obviously 10 times the amount of detail compared to an empty desert. Black sea is also very low on the detail level so you shouldn't have any problems with that area to fly in. Las vegas is just very complex to draw, hence the frame rates.

 

I really can't see DCS optimizing it so that you'll get 90fps on a 970. However, with asynchronous timewarp, decoupling the frame rate from the refresh rate, it should be a good workaround that should satisfy most users. When I play Prepar3d, I get around 50-60fps, and with it having timewarp, there's no judder whatsoever.

[Frusheen]

On my 980ti & DK2, I have no problems achieve 90fps (ie, no judder) when i'm out in the desert. However, when you go flying down the strip, there's obviously 10 times the amount of detail compared to an empty desert. Black sea is also very low on the detail level so you shouldn't have any problems with that area to fly in. Las vegas is just very complex to draw, hence the frame rates.

 

I really can't see DCS optimizing it so that you'll get 90fps on a 970. However, with asynchronous timewarp, decoupling the frame rate from the refresh rate, it should be a good workaround that should satisfy most users. When I play Prepar3d, I get around 50-60fps, and with it having timewarp, there's no judder whatsoever.

 

There are a lot of optimizations needed in dcs. Performance has actually got worse in the last few updates. You mention 90fps in the desert when it's actually 75fps on your 980ti with dk2. I'm hoping they were able to integrate features such as asynchronous timewarp. It's one reason why I didn't consider the Vive as it doesn't have this feature.

[Vladdo]

Sorry, yes, you're right, it is 75fps on the DK2. And it was confirmed a little while ago that asynchronous timewarp is working with runtime 1.0.

 

I'm going to stick with my DK2 for a while yet, since if the res hasn't improved significantly (ie, able to read gauges) as I don't really notice the screen door effect. And if DK2 is going to support runtime 1.0+, i'll get asynch timewarp anyway.. For me a CV1 is a $1100 purchase, with possibly minimal improvements.

[wormeaten]

Did anyone with DK2 try this upgrade kit?

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HDMI-display-wqhd-6-inch-1440p-2560x1440-mipi-lcd-with-hdmi-to-mipi-driver-board-for/32601103052.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.q3CoCB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201602_3_10036_10035_10034_507_10020_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_7&btsid=4c21028d-361a-48a3-b786-2684b18cb00b

 

This should give you near CV1 performance. Increase resolution from 1920x1080 to 2560x1440 and reducing screendoor effect from 386PPI to around 540PPI.

This will give you 1280x1440 per eye and CV1 is 2160x1200 or 1080x1200 per eye and not sure about PPI because never found this important data.

Edited March 22, 2016 by wormeaten

[Johnny Dioxin]

This is an old video, and probably been posted before - but this is why I am prepared to shell out £529 for this bit of kit:

 

 

I think the Vive and Rift will deliver a very similar performance and the only reason I'm ordering this instead of the Vive is the price. I don't need the 15x15m or the controllers to enjoy DCS World, so paying an extra £130 for that seems crazy when the Rift will do it nicely (and is apparently lighter, too).

 

At least with Touch I'll have the option to get them or not.

[DerekSpeare]

Did anyone with DK2 try this upgrade kit?

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HDMI-display-wqhd-6-inch-1440p-2560x1440-mipi-lcd-with-hdmi-to-mipi-driver-board-for/32601103052.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.q3CoCB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201602_3_10036_10035_10034_507_10020_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_7&btsid=4c21028d-361a-48a3-b786-2684b18cb00b

 

This should give you near CV1 performance. Increase resolution from 1920x1080 to 2560x1440 and reducing screendoor effect from 386PPI to around 540PPI.

This will give you 1280x1440 per eye and CV1 is 2160x1200 or 1080x1200 per eye and not sure about PPI because never found this important data.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone has actually used that successfully.

[dot]

This should work quite well for VR flying and racing:

 

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/2016/03/amd-radeon-pro-duo-revealed/

 

While AMD's Radeon Pro Duo is aimed at existing VR devices and content creation, AMD's Roy Taylor did hint at what the future might hold for the company during a pre-briefing call, outside of sticking an entire PC inside a headset:

 

We are already working with a headset manufacturer, unannounced, with a 4K per eye headset. It exists. It's quite, quite beautiful, and we believe that the roadmap to go into higher resolutions will happen more quickly than is probably expected. Once you've seen a high resolution VR experience, you can see that it's really quite beautiful."

[dot]

HTC vive review:

For those who haven't tried any VR yet:

"The resolution is surprisingly low":

[Frusheen]

HTC vive review:

For those who haven't tried any VR yet:

"The resolution is surprisingly low":

 

This is the rift thread. Did you mean to post that over here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139912

[DerekSpeare]

http://uploadvr.com/smi-eye-tracking-foveated-rendering-exclusive/

 

[ame]

[/ame]
Edited March 23, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[hansangb]

I hope they keep up development. This is how the human eye/vision works

(it's actually surprising when you learn that our HD-vision zone is very small in real life!) Hopefully, they can make it so that the tracking works fast enough not to cause headaches/nausea.

[TOYKILLA]

The Rift CV1 has a much besser and sharper Display and lenses as the Vive. Only a few days left to get mine and I hope,Ed is working for a good support.

 

This is the next level for DCS and the biggest step up in the last year's ...

[Flamin_Squirrel]

What are people's plans on how to refer to documents (check lists and the like)?

 

Do we need to wait untill we have a functioning 3D kneeboard? Can you tab out to desktop (from what I understand this may depend on whether you're using 'direct' mode or not)?