Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[blksolo]

Guys, a quick question...

I ordered the DK2 and im very excited. I'm running on XFX 7970 black edition.

I read that DK1 only runs fine with Nvidia cards... Has someone an idea if this still could be a problem for me and I should buy an Nvidia card instead of my 7970? Or are any there rumours that this will be no problem?

Thanks!

There is definitely a problem with DCS and DK1 with AMD cards even tho ED has not acknowledged this. If you own a high end AMD card I definitely would NOT buy another card just to play DCS until they figure it out.

[blksolo]

Interesting thread

[zahry]

Interesting thread

 

For anybody who never tried OR - The screenshot mentioned above is fake (monitor screenshot) and has nothing to do with rift or reality.

 

That's what it really looks like via rift (via the eyepice the image is bit more blurred so you can't see the jaggies so sharp) ->

Edited June 30, 2014 by zahry

[Chivas]

I assume the screenshot is representative of the low resolution DK1, and doesn't represent the higher resolution DK2. It will be interesting to see how it looks with the DK2, next month, which still won't represent the even higher resolution of the CV1. I can't see the ability to see gauges being a problem with the consumer version.

[Maximus_G]

For anybody who never tried OR - The screenshot mentioned above is fake (monitor screenshot) and has nothing to do with rift or reality.

 

That's what it really looks like via rift (via the eyepice the image is bit more blurred so you can't see the jaggies so sharp) ->

OR's horisontal FOV is 90 degrees, and if you want to have a realistic perception of in-cockpit dimensions, your in-game FOV should be close to that.

This screenshot doesn't look like 90 degree FOV, more like a zoomed view. You'll have to lean forward to see HUD like that or play zoomed in constantly.

---

However this screenshot does seem to be made very close to HUD, that would explain why it's so big.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Maximus_G

[zahry]

I assume the screenshot is representative of the low resolution DK1, and doesn't represent the higher resolution DK2. It will be interesting to see how it looks with the DK2, next month, which still won't represent the even higher resolution of the CV1. I can't see the ability to see gauges being a problem with the consumer version.

 

That's actually upscaled image to CV1

 

this is image from DK1 how you see it

[zahry]

OR's horisontal FOV is 90 degrees, and if you want to have a realistic perception of in-cockpit dimensions, your in-game FOV should be close to that.

This screenshot doesn't look like 90 degree FOV, more like a zoomed view. You'll have to lean forward to see HUD like that or play zoomed in constantly.

that's correct - it is a crop I don't think anybody has at home monitor that covers 90º FoV- the crop is correctly stretched and it is similar (actually better) than to what you see in the eyepice.

 

Don't forget rift is stretching the image actos 90º/100º of your FoV and and the image resolution and the image you see has only 860 x 960 pixels for DK2 ((1920/2) *0.8 ).

 

Imagine having 9 monitors around you (arranged 3x3) with each monitor set to resolution 286 x 320 - and that's your DK2 rift image quality

[TOYKILLA]

I assume the screenshot is representative of the low resolution DK1, and doesn't represent the higher resolution DK2. It will be interesting to see how it looks with the DK2, next month, which still won't represent the even higher resolution of the CV1. I can't see the ability to see gauges being a problem with the consumer version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOA_qFfW3M

[Maximus_G]

Don't forget rift is stretching the image actos 90º/100º of your FoV and and the image resolution and the image you see has only 860 x 960 pixels for DK2 ((1920/2) *0.8 ).

 

So are we gonna fly like Jim 'Wash Out' Pfaffenbach with this thing?

No Topper Harley style?

And yes, those are true fisheye lens )

[zahry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOA_qFfW3M

Bang on - you can see the resolution is very limited even when the image is small - now imagine the same image 2m x 2m infront of you to cover the 90º of your field of view ...

 

btw - that's how it originally started way before palmer "got inspired" and put his sticker on it ;-)

- similar things were available since 2010 for free (and that's why rift is what it is and looks like how it looks = sky mask with cardboard box on it ;-) )

[Chivas]

That's actually upscaled image to CV1

 

this is image from DK1 how you see it

 

How can that image be an upscale to the CV1 resolution, when the CV1 resolution isn't known yet.

[blksolo]

I dont think we will know the resolution of CV1 for a while,my guess would be they dont want the competition to know until the last minute. I will definitely be getting a DK2,my GTX 570 aint gonna cut it tho,time to upgrade!!

[Frusheen]

That's actually upscaled image to CV1

 

this is image from DK1 how you see it

 

I wasn't going to let myself be drawn into this but that post and picture is just nonsense. The fact is no image posted on a 2d monitor can give a true impression of what the rift looks like. The reddit image was wrong and you were right to point that out but posting images like this make me question your motives. We all know dev kit 1 is low res and it'll probably take a few iterations to get to a perfect resolution. Yes I am a rift fanboy as are most in this thread. Not all of us can afford wrap around rear projection screens and several projectors!

[zahry]

How can that image be an upscale to the CV1 resolution, when the CV1 resolution isn't known yet.

 

the mig 29 pic is DK1, the other one is DK2/CV1 as per present announcements (source wiki) - you can upscale image on ati cards quite easy - you won't be able to physically see the image improvement in rift because of the display limited resolution. But you can take screenshot and view it on monitor which has usually more than double the amount of perceived pixels.

 

You'll find that any honest DK1 owner (and I'm sure in future even DK2 owners as well) will confirm that's pretty much all the detail what you get. There is also plenty of screenshots on web which you can blow up to correct size to verify that's the fact and reality of OR. Of course if you'll view it as a thumbnail if will look good but once you zoom in our print it out in the adequate size you'll see it's a different story and the resolution is simply too poor.

[zahry]

I wasn't going to let myself be drawn into this but that post and picture is just nonsense. The fact is no image posted on a 2d monitor can give a true impression of what the rift looks like. The reddit image was wrong and you were right to point that out but posting images like this make me question your motives. We all know dev kit 1 is low res and it'll probably take a few iterations to get to a perfect resolution. Yes I am a rift fanboy as are most in this thread. Not all of us can afford wrap around rear projection screens and several projectors!

 

I deal with abuse from delusional OR fans on daily basis and my motives are simply to bring some reality and facts into the discussion.

 

Lot of people are misinformed and are purposely led to have a false expectations about OR. I'm very sorry if the reality is different than your fantasies but that images are real and that's how it looks. Note - and I would like to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR - that I'm not saying buy this or that (or don't) - it's your thing what you do with your time and money.

[blksolo]

I just sold my rift last week but I can tell you that after playing DCS with it,I cant play DCS without it anymore.Yes the graphics are low res and frankly you wouldnt be able to complete a single mission due to the fact that you cant read any of the displays or instruments.BUT the sense of immersion is unreal and it overrides that lack of high resolution.

[bongodriver]

I think someone is still upset about the Facebook thing, the image is nowhere near what is seen in dk1, in dk1 there is much more FOV, why would anyone misinform about the rift capability? I don't stand to personally gain from promoting it, but somebody bitter has nothing to lose by criticising it.

[Frusheen]

I think someone is still upset about the Facebook thing, the image is nowhere near what is seen in dk1, in dk1 there is much more FOV, why would anyone misinform about the rift capability? I don't stand to personally gain from promoting it, but somebody bitter has nothing to lose by criticising it.

 

I don't think Facebook has anything to do with it. The producer of simpit projection systems. Which do look fantastic by the way. I really would love to have the space and money to own one.

[TOYKILLA]

 

 

 

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Edited July 2, 2014 by TOYKILLA

[zahry]

I don't think Facebook has anything to do with it. The producer of simpit projection systems. Which do look fantastic by the way. I really would love to have the space and money to own one.

Cheers - indeed facebook has nothing to do with it. Also I'm realistic and I really don't expect somebody who is considering to spend $300 on OR will ditch the idea and will spend suddenly $6 000 or 65 000 on pro simulation system :D.

 

But from previous photos you can see why it makes me laugh when people who never tried OR are saying OR will replace projection systems or even old monitors. Yes - it has immersion effect due to isolation and 3D effect but it has no absolutely no detail - it's absolutely useless beyond basic entertainment and for flight simulation completely inadequate.

 

I've spent fair share of my pocket money on 3D goggles so I'll be the last one to stop anybody to buy one - but if you do I'm happy to tell you what you are buying. Bottom line is why should I pretend the image quality is better than it is? What is the point of denying facts and reality? What's wrong with showing somebody who never had 3D goggles before or never seen OR in reality what it is and how it looks like? So far everybody relies on chinese whispers and information fabricated by the rift marketing.

 

I've done about 600 -800 hrs with various 3D goggles (I already owned VR920 which I purchased in 2008 and I've tried lot of other 3D goggles as well) so the "WOW - it's in 3D" factor is long time gone. After finding out the reality about OR for myself I personally feel really ripped off and genuinely cheated - the image was crap and the immersion was the same as with any old 3D goggles. From the hype and advertising I've expected something great and nice picture - not something that is worst than my 5 year old equipment.

[zahry]

- that's the real output. You can see how the 1920 x 1080 is divided and cropped. Switch to HD and you can seee the "clarity" of instruments and "Quality" of image (nothing to do with DCS - which has fantastic graphics).

 

FYI - you can actually see the video in 3D WITHOUT any goggles - here is how http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-view-stereo-graphic-images/ (although only as a thumbnail - you can see the 3D is quite good fun but I dare you to read the instruments :-D )

Edited July 2, 2014 by zahry

[blackbelter]

Why not leave it to us and let us judge for ourselves when we get the first hand experience on VR? The fact that you are attacking an alternative to your own product does invite questions on your motives...

 

Just something for you to consider. Out.

[Maximus_G]

...I personally feel really ripped off and genuinely cheated - the image was crap and the immersion was the same as with any old 3D goggles.

Old 3D goggles present a narrow FOV. While the difference between narrow and wide FOV is quite strong usually. When the image goes into the peripheral vision area, there's a prominent effect on human's vestibular system, increasing a presence effect, especially with lots of motion. You can usually feel it with a big screen, a TV or imax, or a projection system used in professional simulators. Bigger FOV - that's what the hype is about, that's why people like it so much better. Don't know why you don't notice that.

[zahry]

Why not leave it to us and let us judge for ourselves when we get the first hand experience on VR? The fact that you are attacking an alternative to your own product does invite questions on your motives...

 

Just something for you to consider. Out.

 

Just something for you to consider:

1) not attacking the product in any way - that's how OR is and how it performs.

2) I'm attacking only the myths and delusions surrounding OR

3) I'm giving you the opportunity judge for yourself THE REAL THING

 

The fact that you are attacking an alternative to your own product

yeah - right - and rift will be also cure for cancer and world hunger...

[zahry]

Old 3D goggles present a narrow FOV. While the difference between narrow and wide FOV is quite strong usually. When the image goes into the peripheral vision area, there's a prominent effect on human's vestibular system, increasing a presence effect, especially with lots of motion. You can usually feel it with a big screen, a TV or imax, or a projection system used in professional simulators. Bigger FOV - that's what the hype is about, that's why people like it so much better. Don't know why you don't notice that.

I did noticed but it is negligible because it still feels like having big blinds on sides and I don't have any real peripheral vision to speak of - it still feels quite restricted. to be hones 3 monitors give me far better view and situational awareness. There is undoubtedly small improvement in FoV but not enough to justify the whole hype around it or to thow out my old monitors. And it's definitely not quite big enough to have any profound effect on vestibular effects (apart from causing bad nausea for some reason - and I normally never get sick in the air or sims)

 

BTW - few tips how to make OR at least marginally useable for DCS:

 

1)setting BIG font size on mouse hover (you know which switches you are using)

2)setting BIG font on HUD (you know the speed and altitude without guessing)

3)setting labels font BIG and using # symbol instead of the . (you know where the targets are and what you are shooting at) (labels.lua)

4)using Peters P radio clickable menu with BIG font (you can use the commands and move the radio to more comfortable position)

Edited July 2, 2014 by zahry