Some details of FC3 AFM Missile Improvements

[SFAL]

I pdopose this...

ED fixes the datalink in the russian birds anx also the R27R so it tracks anx i care not what kind of amraam you have...

 

but then it will be ahh the russian birds have DL and all we have is amraams.... my reply to it will be the same what GGTharos told me blabla is the king of BVR and get used to it...

 

R77 on the Su27 with TWS lunch mode will be called down right cheating.... wont it

[Pilotasso]

What datalink fixes? :huh:

[SFAL]

what DL fix?

if an awacs or a ewr is present on the coAlition the contact would come up on the mfd after switching to bvr and turning radar on for a sec and then off. at present this only works in SP and only on the server side on MP

[blkspade]

Also the F-15 maneuvering so extrem compared with the real performance of this bird. One real F-15 do such maneuver at 1200 km/h and what happen??

 

Looking at your screen shot, the F-15 is only making a 5G turn, at 607knots. So they aren't even near what would probably over G the air-frame, if it were to be accurately modeled. This is obviously well above optimal corner speed, but doesn't look too extreme at all. The F-15 lives on speed, as it requires more than the Su-27 or Mig-29 to come around.

[Exorcet]

what DL fix?

if an awacs or a ewr is present on the coAlition the contact would come up on the mfd after switching to bvr and turning radar on for a sec and then off. at present this only works in SP and only on the server side on MP

 

I think everyone should be all for it, it's more than the planes alone that make air combat.

 

I don't know how far things will go in FC3, but with DCS F-15 and Su-27 I hope we see advanced AWACS and EWR modeling sort of like A-10's JTAC.

[winchesterdelta1]

I pdopose this...

ED fixes the datalink in the russian birds anx also the R27R so it tracks anx i care not what kind of amraam you have...

 

but then it will be ahh the russian birds have DL and all we have is amraams.... my reply to it will be the same what GGTharos told me blabla is the king of BVR and get used to it...

 

R77 on the Su27 with TWS lunch mode will be called down right cheating.... wont it

 

Cheating?? If it is possible in the real plane and they implement it in DCS Fighterjet or FC3 than its just fair game. Or unfair in your opinion. I think some of you guy's actually don't understand what Garros and friends try to say. And i msyelf as a dedicated follower (i don't post to much anymore cause i don't know as much on Fighterjets as these guy's) of these forums getting pretty sick of reading all this BS that have been explained hundreds of times in all possible way's.

[104th_Cobra]

AWACS and EWR/GCI control intercept will make even more sense with the upcoming modules like MiG-21Bis, F-100D and F-104G. For all the others airplanes, implement the known datalink capabilities, even among the birds in the air. It will be a game change that will need tactics adaptation.

For now, as I remember it, the Map interface will bring the capability to control intercept by AI fighters.

[SFAL]

Cheating?? If it is possible in the real plane and they implement it in DCS Fighterjet or FC3 than its just fair game. Or unfair in your opinion. I think some of you guy's actually don't understand what Garros and friends try to say. And i msyelf as a dedicated follower (i don't post to much anymore cause i don't know as much on Fighterjets as these guy's) of these forums getting pretty sick of reading all this BS that have been explained hundreds of times in all possible way's.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you have missunderstood me...

 

im as aixk of this "BS" as you are. What im tryimg to shed tje ligjt on is that when the SM will be out and the capabilities of that plane modeled in game those HARDCORE F15 pilots who got so ised loading up 8 amraams flying 15000m salvoing will cry out NOT FAIR..... hell even with fixed DL they be out DEMANDING that they get DL as well... rightfully... but untill thats done and ED manages to implement GCI on JTAC level i have this to say: learn how to fly russian planes or man up adapt and suck on it as players do now flying afinst F15s armed with 8 amraams...

 

war is not equal...nor fair... right now the F15 has the upper hand.... then it wont.. and this will go around and around.

Dont take it seriously...the game and yourself... have fun and practice dogeing amraams :)

[squinkys]

There is better videos of that incident, mad stuff.

 

Tek do you happen to have some links? I've been searching, but I'm coming up dry! I want to see the bent up airframe!

[Teknetinium]

Im worried about ERs performance after last patch, aim-120 were fixed and are working fine, while ERs miss in situations where it should be 80% chance to hit/damage target.

 

At first I believed I didn't have the aspects right for new missile dynamics but I must confirm that its not the case. I have lunched and tested it from quite many aspects now where R/ER-27 missing the target way to easy.

 

R/ERs performance should be overlooked, less resistance to chaffs or bigger fuse to at least damage the target you fire at.(As I said before, It dose not add to realism since those who fly multiplayer against each other learn to not fair ER/R lunches witch would not be the case in reality.)To achieve realism in a multiplayer environment we need R/ER that are slightly deadlier to bring up the fair factor. Im not saying it should track as good as the modern missiles but could have bigger hit rate from no escape zone.

 

 

At the moment it is way to easy to spoof it. I would assume that R/27 should not preform as bad as ER in closer range since its lighter. (Which missiles weight is modeled in FC3?)

Aim-120~156kg R-27~253kg ER-27~350kg.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Teknetinium

[71st_Mastiff]

that maybe, but TWS is still iffy for the 120's I can get TWS locks but no change in target designation in other words the first target stays locked and I can not launch on the next ones.. :music_whistling:

[Exorcet]

R/ERs performance should be overlooked, less resistance to chaffs or bigger fuse to at least damage the target you fire at.(As I said before, It dose not add to realism since those who fly multiplayer against each other learn to not fair ER/R lunches witch would not be the case in reality.)To achieve realism in a multiplayer environment we need R/ER that are slightly deadlier to bring up the fair factor. Im not saying it should track as good as the modern missiles but could have bigger hit rate from no escape zone.

I don't follow. The missiles should act as they do in reality. Did you mean fear instead of fair? If so, I'd think it would be pretty reasonable to have little fear of an unreliable missile if you understand where you're safe from it and where you're not.

 

I haven't actually been online with the latest patch, but artificial balancing just defeats the point.

[Frostie]

I don't follow. The missiles should act as they do in reality. Did you mean fear instead of fair? If so, I'd think it would be pretty reasonable to have little fear of an unreliable missile if you understand where you're safe from it and where you're not.

Unreliable missile based on what? It being Russian? Propaganda rules. :D

[Exorcet]

Unreliable missile based on what? It being Russian? Propaganda rules. :D

that is if it is unreliable. I have no problem with your post except the artificial balancing. R-27's could be 100 times more effective than AMRAAM as long as it's realistic.

[Frostie]

that is if it is unreliable. I have no problem with your post except the artificial balancing. R-27's could be 100 times more effective than AMRAAM as long as it's realistic.

It's not my post but I don't see him stating artificial balancing anywhere. He mentions the lack of fear (spelt fair) factor in FC when an R-27 is launched at range and also i'm guessing 'overlooked' means 'looked at'.

[Exorcet]

Sorry, I've been doing the same with with 159 Viper and Falcon. Avatars are like faces.

 

It was this part that bothered me

 

R/ERs performance should be overlooked, less resistance to chaffs or bigger fuse to at least damage the target you fire at.... To achieve realism in a multiplayer environment we need R/ER that are slightly deadlier to bring up the fair factor.

 

But reading it again I think I may have misinterpreted, my bad.

[Oberst Zeisig]

that maybe, but TWS is still iffy for the 120's I can get TWS locks but no change in target designation in other words the first target stays locked and I can not launch on the next ones.. :music_whistling:

 

For me I was seeking for a solution also to quick change a target in tws or get a quick overview again in lrs AFTER already having "bugged" a target.

 

For me there are 2 ways to do so:

 

Nr.1: "unlock" the current target and lock another or press tws again to go to lrs

 

Nr. 2: (even quicker) press tws again then You find Yourself in stt. Then You can push the lrs-mode-button and You find Yourself there with the starting parameters of that mode. (disadvantage: the enemy you bugged before could get a short lock warning)

[Pilotasso]

I hear they going to fix the chaff algorithm in next patch which should fix ineffective R-27 radar variants.

 

I would like to launch a new direction to this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO theres something fishy about missiles lift and drag coefficients. let me explain:

 

last weekend I dropped online, in one of the fights I screwed up big time by letting a Su27 fly by and thought he was going to shoot an R-73 anytime and finish me off with a shlem shot. He did shlem missiles, but they all overshot. I was like "WTF, wouldn't the real missile cope with turning at that range from nearly 6 o'clock? he had about 60º angle off though. But I still expected him to get me.

 

it appears, before missiles accelerate to high speed they just wont turn. (granted they are more manoeuvrable with greater speeds, but still!)

 

If they had Thrust vectoring as they were supposed to, the missile in current game status would just flip into a 90 degrees AOA without turning. The body lift seems to be either absent or too weak leaving all work to the fins.

 

 

Also the AMRAAM was supposed to be a better WVR than it its. The needed initial separation between target and launcher looks bigger than expectation in all common sense.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

This is a fuzing/maneuver safety thing. The missile won't begin maneuvering until it clears the plane and then some.

This is not always appropriate, but there's no notion of guidance launch profiles in the game - ie. for example letting the missile maneuver sooner for a dogfight shot, vs. locking in a loft profile against a longer shot, etc.

[Pilotasso]

Im not talking about arming delay, missiles look weaker in manoeuvring when motor starts burning than they should (only after quite a while through burning), at least to me. Perhaps is a lens effect from all HUD tapes I have ever seen? :D

 

One of the visual hints I use is the smoke giving away the missiles AOA. It takes several seconds before it lowers closer into the missiles flight path (0º).

 

Had the R-73 had thrust vectoring in this state I bet it would do the cobra. :D

Edited July 25, 2013 by Pilotasso

[_Dredd]

Sry a quick question that maybe can be answered before I get through all the posts.

Looking at bullet note one and the second last on guidance delay.

Is initial drag off the launcher rail modelled dependant on target aspect? If I fire at gimbal limit is the initial velocity and drag modelled for this first flight correction? ..

Edited July 31, 2013 by _Dredd

[GGTharos]

Yep, but it has nothing to do with the target aspect.

 

Is initial drag off the launcher rail modelled dependant on target aspect? If I fire at gimbal limit is the initial velocity and drag modelled for this first flight correction? ..

[Teknetinium]

Witch missile is faster ER-27 or Aim-120C5?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Teknetinium

[GGTharos]

Hard to tell. R-27ER has more propellant, enough to peak 120m/s faster. But this is if you don't consider air resistance at all - if you do, the R-27ER is draggier, and so their speed can easily be pretty close.

[Teknetinium]

I see, i thought that ER-27 was faster.Like You are saying probably hard to really tell.

Maybe it could be faster at higher altitude?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Teknetinium