Some details of FC3 AFM Missile Improvements

[Alfa]

Are you certain? Because for F-15C, AMRAAM is mentioned in 1988 manual, maybe older (but I do not have older so I don't know). F-15C was AMRAAM-ready many years before AMRAAM was in service. It an be the same with R-27ER.

 

Sniped :D

[Alfa]

Let me put this politely. WTF?

 

I thought this was the English forum.

 

IMO its better to write in Russian than attempting to say something meaningful through Google translate :)

[volk]

Yes I know, but it was my impression that the larger two-stage motor section entered production later.You may be right, but are you sure that ER/ET were in production from the beginning - or that the manual just mentioned it as planned?

#277. From MiG's FM.

[pepin1234]

The R-27R and R-27ER is strongly downgraded. The inicial fly speed is so poor and the Chaff have an enormous impact in the succes of the missile in the simulator. I have made some test and one F-15 just need 4 or 5 times Chaff dispense to decoy.

[Mandrake5]

IMO its better to write in Russian than attempting to say something meaningful through Google translate :)

 

What, so the majority of us have to miss out on the rest of a thus far enjoyable discussion? Russian forum is for Russian, surely???

[Alfa]

What, so the majority of us have to miss out on the rest of a thus far enjoyable discussion?

 

As far as I can see the alternative is to miss out on interesting input from people who don't speak English.

 

Besides, I don't speak Russian either, so I don't know who "the rest of us" is :) .

[Pilotasso]

The R-27R and R-27ER is strongly downgraded. The inicial fly speed is so poor and the Chaff have an enormous impact in the succes of the missile in the simulator. I have made some test and one F-15 just need 4 or 5 times Chaff dispense to decoy.

 

its the same for all missiles i understand they will be improved.

[pepin1234]

What, so the majority of us have to miss out on the rest of a thus far enjoyable discussion? Russian forum is for Russian, surely???

 

No, russian Forum is for the russian people but not for dictate what language we must use here.

 

So I dont speak english and when I want speak in my language no body can not dictate here that we must speak in English and the russian people have the rights to say something here too. If you dont understand something you should go to Google translator like a lot of people do here with the english.

 

First we have to see how the russian hardware is downgraded and then come that we cant speak in russian, wonderful.:doh:

Edited February 9, 2013 by pepin1234

[pepin1234]

its the same for all missiles i understand they will be improved.

 

I have a lot of Tacview to show you. You not convince me.

[Mandrake5]

No, russian Forum is for the russian people but not for dictate what language we must use here.

 

So I dont speak english and when I want speak in my language no body can not dictate here that we must speak in English and the russian people have the rights to say something here too. If you dont understand something you should go to Google translator like a lot of people do here with the english.

 

First we have to see how the russian hardware is downgraded and then come that we cant speak in russian, wonderful.:doh:

 

No offence, but are you always this irrational or are you just having a bad week?

[pepin1234]

No offence, but are you always this irrational or are you just having a bad week?

 

Я выпил стакан водки высшего качества :lol:

[Mandrake5]

Я выпил стакан водки высшего качества :lol:

 

I just google translated that :D :thumbup:

[*Rage*]

Yes, basically it is not possible to make good analysis of the reports.

 

Even if the reports are accurate, we do not know what condition the missiles were in (some say they were old, end-of-shelf-life stock) and we do not know how these weapons were employed.

 

So it is possible that indeed R-27 is this bad, but more probable is that these missiles were simply too old - past their shelf life, possibly combined with shooting in poor parameters.

 

After all, a mission kill is almost as valuable as an aircraft kill - if you can make the other guy run away and fail at his mission, you don't need to hit his plane.

 

 

So back to my original question. If we can agree to disregard the EE conflict than the performance of the ERs currently is subpar...

[GGTharos]

Subpar compared to what?

 

FC3 is in beta stage and missiles are being tuned. There are bugs that need to be addressed.

 

That's pretty much all there is to it.

 

So back to my original question. If we can agree to disregard the EE conflict than the performance of the ERs currently is subpar...

[pepin1234]

Me and my colleagues yesterday looking the result of our Su-27 non 3D cockpit against the F-15 3D cockpit plus our wonderful Alamo missile. Just wait and look the R-77... :helpsmilie:

 

First missile launched around 41 km range:

 

 

 

 

 

Second missile ( the same history )

 

 

After the Su-27 see the first two missiles was a miss, suddenly the RWR say there they are...:music_whistling:

Edited February 10, 2013 by pepin1234

[Grimes]

Me and my colleagues yesterday looking the result of our Su-27 non 3D cockpit against the F-15 3D cockpit plus our wonderful Alamo missile. Just wait and look the R-77... :helpsmilie:

(this bit is a joke)

I dont see a problem, the missile performance is clearly based on how many dimensions the cockpit is in. Once the Su-27 3d cockpit is released all missiles it fires will receive the standard 3x missile quality multiplier and the pk will naturally increase. Sadly it seems the Mig-29 with its forced perspective 2.5d cockpit and its R-77s will not receive this 3d buff. :(

 

(end of joke)

 

Without the tacview file its difficult to see what actually happened to make a full assessment of the engagement. All I can gather from the three images are that the F-15C is entering a beam and that apparently all three missiles missed. Its not clear how close the missiles came to the target and if the reason the missile missed were a missile detonation failure, countermeasures deployed after the image, or the missile simply lost track at the last moment. Also I have the sneaking suspicion that the 3rd R-27ER missed because the launch platform was destroyed. I mean I could post screenshots of tacview all day showing R-27s hitting targets to prove that the missile works, but if I didn't actually provide the tacview file to see what was actually happening, the screenshot evidence provides an incomplete picture.

[wilky510]

First we have to see how the russian hardware is downgraded and then come that we cant speak in russian, wonderful.:doh:

This biased card is getting really old. Funny how noone mentions how superior and 'biased' the Sukhois and MiG's are in WVR vs the F-15.

[pepin1234]

 

(this bit is a joke)

I dont see a problem,

the missile performance is clearly based on how many dimensions the cockpit is in. Once the Su-27 3d cockpit is released all missiles it fires will receive the standard 3x missile quality multiplier and the pk will naturally increase. Sadly it seems the Mig-29 with its forced perspective 2.5d cockpit and its R-77s will not receive this 3d buff. :(

 

 

 

I understand your joke and off course you make fun with that becuse maybe you dont fly enough the russians fighters, so you dont care about how the other people feel. I have pay 39 $ like the others players to get the ricardo cockpit with non shadows, non 6dof and non 3D cockpit

 

(end of joke)

 

Without the tacview file its difficult to see what actually happened to make a full assessment of the engagement. All I can gather from the three images are that the F-15C is entering a beam and that apparently all three missiles missed. Its not clear how close the missiles came to the target and if the reason the missile missed were a missile detonation failure, countermeasures deployed after the image, or the missile simply lost track at the last moment. Also I have the sneaking suspicion that the 3rd R-27ER missed because the launch platform was destroyed. I mean I could post screenshots of tacview all day showing R-27s hitting targets to prove that the missile works, but if I didn't actually provide the tacview file to see what was actually happening, the screenshot evidence provides an incomplete picture.

 

Is not incomplet picture. We dont need give the Tacview file because all is proved by everyone and we are not new in this simulator. The first missile was a miss and of course the F-15 was still locked because the second missile also come straight to the F-15. Also the F-15 maneuvering so extrem compared with the real performance of this bird. One real F-15 do such maneuver at 1200 km/h and what happen??

Edited February 10, 2013 by pepin1234

[FLANKERATOR]

Hey Pepin, it would be better to actually watch the acmi file and the track file in order to try to come up with a constructive explanation. If you don't want or can not share them, then it wont be possible to understand what really happened.

[Pilotasso]

Agree, Pepin, since your making a long list of claims that are rather strange, you should back it up with tracks or risk not to be taken seriously.

[104th_Maverick]

Also the F-15 maneuvering so extrem compared with the real performance of this bird

 

Can you elaborate please sir?

 

I'm very keen to get any new information on how the F-15 performs in real life and would really appreciate any feedback you can give from your experience.

 

Thanks

 

Mav

[159th_Viper]

We don't need give the Tacview file....

 

You don't?

 

What are you trying to hide? Cm'on, enough of this cloak-and-dagger stuff, just upload the .acmi file. Seriously, it's a minute out of your life: Would probably have been quicker to upload the file in the first instance rather than taking screenshots and telling us why you will not upload it.

 

Honestly, if you want to take a little you have to be prepared to give a little ;)

[Grimes]

I understand your joke and off course you make fun with that becuse maybe you dont fly enough the russians fighters, so you dont care about how the other people feel. I have pay 39 $ like the others players to get the ricardo cockpit with non shadows, non 6dof and non 3D cockpit

 

My point was that a 3d cockpit doesn't dictate who will win the fight, its the pilots who are sitting in the cockpit that matters. Yes the 3d pit can afford a little better SA because of the freedom of movement, but A. You can modify some files to get the same freedom in normal FC pits. B. It has been announced the Su-27 will get a 3d cockpit. C. Technically the limited FoV of the Flanker is "more realistic" but less practical. I know Mig and Su-33 miss out, but who knows maybe in the future those will also get some love.

 

It is an incomplete picture because you have taken a recording of what actually happened, where you can rewind, manipulate the view, and look at statistics at any moment during the engagement and condensed it into 3 cropped photos. It simply doesn't compare to the actual tacview. Back when we did Red Flags, 159th Viper would take a bucket-load of awesome screenshots, but even those didn't show "what actually happened" quite like the massive tacview file that was shared after the event.

 

 

P.S. I happen to like flying the Russian aircraft BECAUSE they are at a missile and radar disadvantage to the F-15C. Its simply more fun and challenging to shoot down an F-15 pilot in their fancy state of the art equipment with some terrible old missile. But I know its not likely that I will win a straight up fight against an F-15C. I gotta make him fight me on my terms.... so I usually bring a friend and that helps even the odds. :music_whistling:

[GGTharos]

Real F-15's can hold 10-11g at 1200kph, at sea level, until they run out of fuel. The Max allowable safe g load is 9g ... just so that you understand how extreme the F-15's capability is.

 

F-15's have pulled 12g in real combat. Those airframes continued to fly. One F-15 pilot pulled 14-15g to save his life after g-lock when he found himself going to the sea at mach 1. That airframe was bent and is now a museum piece.

 

Also the F-15 maneuvering so extrem compared with the real performance of this bird. One real F-15 do such maneuver at 1200 km/h and what happen??

[pepin1234]

;1672256']Can you elaborate please sir?

 

I'm very keen to get any new information on how the F-15 performs in real life and would really appreciate any feedback you can give from your experience.

 

Thanks

 

Mav

 

I am sure you dont need my experience and my documentation. You are the Maverick F-15 pilot of the 104th?? You are beta tester right, and your nick is Maverick... ??