FC3 Bug thread

[Dr_Arrow]

No aircraft lands at those speeds...what is going on ?

 

Any aicraft can land at those speeds, however the question is about its usability after such "landing" :cry:

[Sov13t]

Was messing around with sounds yesterday, adjusting the gains a little bit to boost hearing of things like air brake going out and gears... Noticed that while the sound files are one thing... in game they are played back higher pitched and very different from source.

 

A good example is the AirBrake sound, any explanation to this?

[Pilotasso]

If memory serves me right the sounds are 3D enviromentally processed by the game engine. The sounds may not be the problem, tweking the games parameters could be the solution.

[GGTharos]

It is as Pilotasso says. Doppler effects etc are applied to the sounds.

[Maraudeur]

ILS bugs in FC3

 

Here is a short summup of ILS bugs detected in FC3 with my SU-27.

Let me know if you wish me to complete the test or if I can save my efforts to help :smilewink:

 

Also be aware of the fact that I lead a SU-27 virtual squadron (the 92nd Kodiak AF) and that we may help by performing multiple tests and/or bug chase to help ED to track and solve ASAP the bugs :thumbup:

ILS in FC3.pdf

Edited November 15, 2012 by Maraudeur

[GGTharos]

Very nice job, thanks for doing this! :)

[Sov13t]

It is as Pilotasso says. Doppler effects etc are applied to the sounds.

 

Right but in FC2 we had the same sound engine... and even if doppler effect was applied why would it be applied when you are spooling up and opening/closing the airbrake?

[GGTharos]

That I don't have an answer to. c0ff might be able to better explain this and determine if there is indeed a bug here.

[159th_Viper]

Here is a short summup of ILS bugs detected in FC3 with my SU-27.

 

Excellent work indeed :)

 

Also be aware of the fact that I lead a SU-27 virtual squadron (the 92nd Kodiak AF) and that we may help by performing multiple tests and/or bug chase to help ED to track and solve ASAP the bugs :thumbup:

 

Just make sure that all bugs that you find are reported to this thread - that's the only way we will ensure that they all get onto the bug tracker.

 

Your input is appreciated :)

[pepin1234]

I am having a strange delay when I start a SP mission. Take a lot of time to open and sometimes I have to CtrL+Alt+DeL and then get it open the mission. All that is happen since I installed the 1.2.2.7286, then I installed the FC3 via the .bat solution ( rolling back to previous version ) Maybe something is broken because some of the procedures I have made.

Edited November 15, 2012 by pepin1234

[c0ff]

Was messing around with sounds yesterday, adjusting the gains a little bit to boost hearing of things like air brake going out and gears... Noticed that while the sound files are one thing... in game they are played back higher pitched and very different from source.

 

A good example is the AirBrake sound, any explanation to this?

 

Apart from distance/doppler and other environmental effects, sound playback is controlled by the application-level code. For example, engines sound pitch depends on RPM, etc. I can't comment on this.

[IvanK]

Slewable EOS. This was discussed earlier in the Bug thread stating that the EOS wasnt slewable in elevation IRL so this feature was removed from FC3.

 

In another thread (on te R27) Sov13T provides info that certainly on the SU27 it is slew able in elevation.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1605931&postcount=23

 

"Yes, the 27 has two modes Wide and Narrow. Wide mode provides a scan zone of 60˚x10˚ and can be slewed ±30˚ in azimuth and from -10˚ to 55˚ in vertical. Narrow mode provides a scan zone of 20˚x5˚ and can be slewed ±50˚ in azimuth and from -12.5˚ to +57.5˚ in vertical plane. "

 

Can the devs re visit this. Removing the ability to slew the EOS in elevation reduces its effectiveness significantly.

[IvanK]

:) I suspected as much. It never occured to you because it isn't currently selectable in that mode. I wonder if this is what Combatace was referring to. It used to work with the R-77 way back when I was more active. Don't know if the change is purposeful or accidental the manual still refers to it working with ARH missiles. So...

 

Rich

 

It never occurred to me because I don't see the point of using FiFo mode to launch a Radar missile. Does not FiFo mode simply provide a missile Boresight reference to help get an IR acquisition tone for IR missile launch ?

 

Selecting FiFo mode in FC3 also automatically selects the first able IR missile. Missile step will then only cycle through those IR missiles on board whilst still in FiFo mode. ... Makes sense to me.

 

In the case of the R77 with a no lock launch (similar to Visual AMRAAM launch or even an AIM7 FLOOD launch) I would assume that just launching the R77 with the target basically in the HUD would be sufficient .... i.e. similar to the AIM120 Visual reference HUD circle... it certainly works that way in FC3, R77 goes active straight of the rail with a No lock Missile Override launch.

 

FiFo doesnt provide FLOOD illumination on a Missile Override no lock R27 launch.

 

So imo FiFo mode is working as advertised.

Edited November 15, 2012 by IvanK

[volk]

Su 27 IRST sensor not moving up and down

Yes. As in the real life.

Wrong.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1604582&postcount=36

Do you have another source?

[59th_LeFty]

OK, let's play rough on this IRST game :) Final chance to make my sim the way it should be.

 

First of all, I will only refer to the two MiG-29 models in the game, equipped with OEPRNK-29E infrared target acquisition sensor.

 

_______________________

"2" TP

Search mode - Wide

no slew

Scan limits from +/-30° horizontal +/-15°vertical

 

Search mode - Narrow (of course with half-the searching time)

can be slewed same like radar, slew options +15° 0, -15°

Scan limits from +/-15° horizontal +/-15°vertical

BUT NO VERTICAL SLEW, it displays the whole +/-15°in vertical, along the whole display (HUD/HDD)

 

Scan pattern speed is 30°/second horizontal

 

If vertical scan limits of IRST is +/-15°in search mode, then FC3 IS CORRECT until this point.

______________________

"3" TP BB (blezhniy boy=close combat mode)

Vertical auto acquisition mode with IRST

auto scan, limits +/-2°horizontal (YES, 4°wide, unlike radar "RL BB" which is 6°), +16/-14°vertical.

Scan time 1 second the whole area

 

______________________

"5" SLEM

Target designation for IRST and R-73 missile by Helmet mounted designator

manual lock +/-60° hor., +60/-15°ver.

 

And gentlemen :) The little circle of the cueing system is a mechanically fix circle in the helmet, not a "magic marker" which sticks to the designated target.

 

So Bug/design feature lack #xy: Russian planes helmet designator circle stays on target after lock.

It should make a sound, exactly like the Fi0 mode ("6")

______________________

______________________

 

BUG #xy: IRST sensor is NOT gimbal fixed in search mode. It is stupid and dunno where the horizon is.

 

 

 

info from operation manual.

 

If you guys make this work, I will forever stay your fan alongside with around a hundred Hungarian aviators :)

Edited November 15, 2012 by 59th_LeFty

[Esac_mirmidon]

So the key words are " Slew " and " Scan "

 

IRST SCAN in vertical but not SLEW in vertical ?

 

And in Shlem mode ( helmet mode ) there are no inner little circle, only a lock tone ?

[59th_LeFty]

IRST SCAN in vertical but not SLEW in vertical ?

 

Yep, you see all the +/- 15 degree in the whole HUD.

 

And in Shlem mode ( helmet mode ) there are no inner little circle, only a lock tone ?

 

There are some indications (4 of them) that are changing, but I'd be happy if only the circle would not track the target. But yes, there is a tone in case of lock.

[IvanK]

Good info Lefty.

 

A question with the HMTD. Lets say you move the monocle over the IR target, you get a tone you can fire Ok I understand that but Is there a means to look at the target, get the tone then uncage the seeker head so it remains locked on the IR source whilst you then look away ?

Edited November 16, 2012 by IvanK

[Esac_mirmidon]

These are the four options mentioned:

 

 

1: Targeting Ring

 

2: Dashed Targeting Ring blinking at 2 mhz when a target its captured by IRST, RADAR or Missile seeker.

 

3: Targeting Ring with crosshair at Launch Authorized

 

4: Dashed targeting ring with cross hair blinking at 2 mhz in No admissible targeting error.

 

But the are one thing that is disturbing me.

 

In the Su-27Sk manual there are some HUD pics about IRST mode, basically you can see a rectangle ( little or big , there are two size options ), called Target Designator Box ( the same as the classical radar designator box ), and for the different positions showed all seems that this IRST target designator can be moved along the HUD in all directions.

 

And this IRST moving designator box are present in TP mode ( IRST mode ), so the IRST box can me moved so it´s not only a SCAN thing, also a SLEWABLE thing?

 

 

Here you can see a pic about TP mode (irst mode ) where the IR target box can be moved along the HUD (Nº 15)

 

 

The solid green dots are IR contacts and the IRST target designator box are moved along the HUD to the left upper position.

 

Also and more important the Nº 8 indicates the POSITION IN VERTICAL of the IRST sensor and the Nº 10 in horizontal. At the left side of the HUD there are the indication TП ( IRST ) alone, no radar indication, only IRST mode.

 

So my guess is, the IRST sensor can be moved in vertical and horizontal axis or the IRST shows in the HUD a fixed field of view presenting the scan results in the whole HUD view ( no slew, only scan inside FOV limits ) and the targeting computer system generates a targeting box to lock IR contacts that can be moved?

Edited November 16, 2012 by Esac_mirmidon

[159th_Viper]

 

BUG #xy: IRST sensor is NOT gimbal fixed in search mode. It is stupid and dunno where the horizon is

 

I'm having a wee bit of trouble understanding the nature of the bug here. Would you please elaborate, specifically in relation to current FC3 behaviour, ie what is happening now that should not be happening?

 

Ta

[volk]

OK, let's play rough on this IRST game :) Final chance to make my sim the way it should be.

 

First of all, I will only refer to the two MiG-29 models in the game, equipped with OEPRNK-29E infrared target acquisition sensor.

That true. But I talk (and Chizh answer) about Su IRST, not a MiG. Have you any docs on Russian ОЛС (not ОЭПрНК-29Э from downgrade МиГ-29Б export version)?

[IvanK]

Viper I think the consensus is that the MIG29 EOS system cannot be slewed by the pilot in elevation at all. In this respect the current MIG29 FC3 mechanisation is correct.... assuming the scan volumes are correct.

 

However in the MIG29 the EOS can operate in 2 modes WIDE and NARROW.

FC3 in this respect is incorrect since no WIDE or NARROW selection is possible.

 

In WIDE it is a fixed autoscan of +-30 degrees in azimuth and -15deg to +30deg in pitch. No Azimuth slew is available in wide. (At present in FC3 the EOS scan can be slewed Left Centre and Right. so If the current FC3 scan volume is +-30deg in azimuth and -15 to +30 in pitch then all that is required is to remove the azimuth L R slew option. This then would achieve an accurate MIG29 EOS WIDE mode.

 

In the second MIG29 mode NARROW (not currently selectable in FC3) the Auto scan is +-15 deg in azimuth but still -15deg to +30 deg in pitch. Given the smaller NARROW scan volume the scan and update rate is quicker. In NARROW scan the scan volume can be slewed in Azimuth 15 left centre to 15 right. Again no Slew in elevation.

 

The elevation scan centre point is the aircraft's Fore and aft axis or ZSL/FRL it is not horizon stabilised (as the radar is). So as the pilot moves the nose the whole scan goes with it.

 

WRT the SU27. IMO insufficient data has been presented in this thread to clearly state the case. We know the SU27 system is more capable with better detection and more pilot selectable azimuth modes (4 I think) and possibly slewable in pitch.

 

The HMS mechanisation is incorrect in FC3 and has been in LOMAC, FC1,FC2. Sov13T describes the correct operation clearly in his post. EDIT Esac_Mirmidon post 333 describes HMS mechanisation.

Edited November 16, 2012 by IvanK

[159th_Viper]

Which post by Sov13T?

[IvanK]

Sorry wrong poster name I meant Esac_Mirmidon in post 333. These graphics come from SU27SK manual. I have a similar description from a translated MIG29 manual.

[59th_LeFty]

That true. But I talk (and Chizh answer) about Su IRST, not a MiG. Have you any docs on Russian ОЛС (not ОЭПрНК-29Э from downgrade МиГ-29Б export version)?

 

nope, only for 9.12b. And not in digital format.