Will we ever see another hardcore jet sim from ED?

[Jona33]

:megalol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol::megalol: :megalol::megalol::megalol: :megalol: :megalol::megalol: :megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol:

 

I shall not be an Andy Murray! I will WIN! :D

[chromium]

We all want information, but the problem is too many can't handle the information which is exactly why the information we all want the most isn't available

 

+1

[fitness88]

We all want information, but the problem is too many can't handle the information which is exactly why the information we all want the most isn't available. The online community forums have become our own worst enemies in this regard.

 

I mean think about this for a min. When software companies have been forthcoming with information in the past, the on-line community immediately becomes critical of the information they get which in turn can and has ended up diminishing the return the software company can get from their product because of the severely negative connotations that become directly attached to the software product and the company that was only attempting to give their customers/followers the information they wanted in the first place.

 

How many times have we heard the following complaints when information about a new product or addition is announced?

 

* That's not the product I wanted them to do so I refuse to buy it

 

* They should have chosen to do this variant instead of that one

 

* It won't run on my 7 year old computer on high settings.

 

* It's not detailed or complicated enough

 

* It's too complicated for what I was looking for

 

* It's going to cost too much I shouldn't have to pay for that when I already got this 6 year old software at a deep discount

 

* We want it NOW, but if it comes out too early it's a buggy piece of crap and I've deleted off my hard drive

 

* They said they'd release it this month and it's not yet out by the 5th, these guys are idiots

 

I could go on and on, but I think you guys get the idea, we've all seen these kinds of posts in the past. The lack of information we now get is a direct result of our inability to handle the information we used to get in the past and the negative effect it had on the companies who were actually producing the software we all wanted which brings us right back to.........

 

We will be getting the information and the product when it's done and ready to be released.

 

You are correct. The sim makers would never survive on the sale to those few who want the real thing in hard core simulators, so they make a medium sim and try and appeal to the masses. From a business point of view I understand that because in the end that's the reason Jane's stopped making their hardcore sims.

[RedRain]

With the recent introduction of CA and the inferior fidelity of FC3, perhaps we're asking the wrong questions, after all, this product is marketed as a combat simulator and not a flight simulator ?

[blkspade]

Actually I'm pretty sure it falls into the category of Combat Flight simulator. Because the sim still involves reasonably accurate characteristics of flight, but does it with functional combat aircraft. Otherwise you get pure flight sims, with zero combat, or arcade flight games where its air combat with no detail in the flight handling at all.

 

With the recent introduction of CA and the inferior fidelity of FC3, perhaps we're asking the wrong questions, after all, this product is marketed as a combat simulator and not a flight simulator ?

[blkspade]

Except the Lock On series isn't hardly a mass appeal product. There is still steep curve involved for those completely new the mechanics of flight. A person familiar only with Ace Combat or HAWX, will still be completely lost learning things in FC. FC is merely easier to DCS by comparison but far from simple. Thus all the core concepts learned in FC reamain completely applicable in DCS. I have a friend that I tried to get into FC2 from watching me fly. He eventually bought the platinum box, but only flew a handful of times.

 

You are correct. The sim makers would never survive on the sale to those few who want the real thing in hard core simulators, so they make a medium sim and try and appeal to the masses. From a business point of view I understand that because in the end that's the reason Jane's stopped making their hardcore sims.

[Teknetinium]

I believe ED will make it if they will release to comparable fighters and bombers, Anyone who enjoy combats simulation will be able to find something in DCS, I don't know any company that can compete whit DCS multiplayer world. we need to be patient and hope that they make DCS world stable witch will open the doors for multiplayer campaigns. Whit Combined arms generals can move units in Real-time witch means that you can kill human controlled ground units, that is rising the immersion for bombers by far as for thouse who like to drive OSAs and tanks:). We have very interesting time ahead of us if everything work out as ED planed.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Teknetinium

[RedRain]

Actually I'm pretty sure it falls into the category of Combat Flight simulator. Because the sim still involves reasonably accurate characteristics of flight, but does it with functional combat aircraft. Otherwise you get pure flight sims, with zero combat, or arcade flight games where its air combat with no detail in the flight handling at all.

 

So that should be DCFS and not DCS ?

[Revelation]

So that should be DCFS and not DCS ?

 

No. DCS stands for Digital Combat Simulator. ED is working on more than just flight sims. CA is the first step into simulating ground combat, ED people have already stated there's a lot more they would like to do with it, so we will have to wait and see the progression over time.

 

For instance CA is a lot like Flaming Cliffs. Basic modeling/simple movement models, simple targeting systems. If you look at the progression from the Flanker Series to LOMAC to FC1, 2 & 3 to where we are now with aircraft of the DCS series then you can get an idea of the potentials behind CA.

 

ED has also announced that they would like to do the same thing for Naval Combat that they have done for CA. Only time will tell when we have access to that content as well.

 

There are a lot more things happening "behind the scenes" to make DCS even better. Sure, there's nothing out there that is "prefect" but ED is really close with the DCS series.

[blkspade]

Now thats you just arguing over the semantics of what they've named the series vs what it actually is. Seeing as Combat Flight Simulator existed as a Microsoft product, "DCFS" would get pretty close to trademark infringement. As stated the product is expanding beyond flight, but all additional parts serve to improve the flight component.

 

So that should be DCFS and not DCS ?

[ronht]

It all comes down to one simple point, in my opinion - WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?

 

DCS is a fantastic product with wide appeal for everyone and everyone's mood of the day for that matter. There is nothing else on the market that comes close to providing what DCS provides and more importantly, with the evolution of console gaming, there are no products coming down the line that come anywhere close to offering the fidelity and immersion of even the DCS single-player stand-alone product.

 

Go to Best Buy or any store that still sells computer software and compare what you see today to what used to be there. The fairly large selection of flight simulation games that used to line the shelves are no longer there, even Microsofts Flight Simulator, which many people thought would never go away, is no longer in production much less supported or being improved upon by the company.

 

Not everyone has the time or the desire to learn every aspect of every military platform that may find it's way into DCS. However, and this is IMPORTANT, the ability of ED to continue to offer a wide variety at various levels of game-play and this communities support of every ED product, whether you personally like all of it or not, is the ONLY thing that is going to keep DCS from going the way of Falcon, the Janes combat series, Microsofts Flight Simulator and all the other flight simulations and games we've seen in the past. Nothing is forever in this business.

 

I welcome every product and update ED provides for DCS and will continue to buy everyone of them in an effort to keep this fantastic simulation alive and supported by ED for as long as possible. Sometimes I think we get so accustomed to what we have, we forget about what we could lose.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ronht

[GGTharos]

In fact it is mass-appeal by comparison to say, the Ka-50 and A-10C, for the simulation crowd. FC sells more copies, for very simple reasons.

 

(Edit: That is not to say that Ka-50 and A-10C have not sold well. They have, but not as much).

 

Except the Lock On series isn't hardly a mass appeal product. There is still steep curve involved for those completely new the mechanics of flight. A person familiar only with Ace Combat or HAWX, will still be completely lost learning things in FC. FC is merely easier to DCS by comparison but far from simple. Thus all the core concepts learned in FC reamain completely applicable in DCS. I have a friend that I tried to get into FC2 from watching me fly. He eventually bought the platinum box, but only flew a handful of times.

Edited January 28, 2013 by GGTharos

[blkspade]

Well if we're only thinking of the simulation crowd then that may be true. Though most people in that demographic have probably not chosen to buy KA-50 or A-10C solely due to disinterest in the craft not the complexity. I haven't bought either solely due to my limited interest in ground pounding, and a preference for speed. I'd rather be doing Mach 2, with my hair on fire. At least be flying something where such things are an option. I know others that feel basically the same way, and we will be all over F-18C when that gets released.

 

In fact it is mass-appeal by comparison to say, the Ka-50 and A-10C, for the simulation crowd. FC sells more copies, for very simple reasons.

[OGREMAN]

WHAT ABOUT OGRES? They are welcome to try

 

:D

Lookout Risk!

WHAT ABOUT OGRES? They are welcome to try

They don't feed trolls around here. They light them up with a little 30 mike mike.

WHAT ABOUT OGRES? They are welcome to try

[MegOhm_SD]

we need to believe F18c is the next DCS module. DONT TAKE THIS AWAY FROM US!! :D

 

 

Might be just me but since the F18 and FW190 were specifically called out in the Video as upcoming and the various 3rd party projects were just mentioned as other 3rd party projects...I tend to believe the F18 and FW190 will be ED products... And we have the F18 in Wags Sig...LOL!

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

^^this

i also have the feeling that both the F18 and the FW190 will be ED products...cant wait for both of them, especially the FW190 will get all my attention once its available as a beta version...2013 too early??what do you guys guess?

[Revelation]

^^this

i also have the feeling that both the F18 and the FW190 will be ED products...cant wait for both of them, especially the FW190 will get all my attention once its available as a beta version...2013 too early??what do you guys guess?

 

 

My best guess:

F-18C - June 2013

FW190 - Oct 2013

 

Of course I have no inside knowledge and all is speculative and I wouldn't bet any money in Vegas based on my predictions...

 

Of course though if I turn out to be right I will politely tell you guys I knew all along and you were idiots for not believing me. I will also take the time to remind you that I am the "man" and all must bow down in my greatness... :)

Edited January 28, 2013 by Revelation

[BRooDJeRo]

Actually I'm pretty sure it falls into the category of Combat Flight simulator. Because the sim still involves reasonably accurate characteristics of flight, but does it with functional combat aircraft. Otherwise you get pure flight sims, with zero combat, or arcade flight games where its air combat with no detail in the flight handling at all.

 

Both wrong, DCS falls into the catagory 'edu-sim' due to the level of details and the connections with rl army's using this software to train soldiers.

[Wayc00lio]

Haha rev.

[Rusty_M]

Rev, I think you suffer from wishful thinking.

 

On 3 counts!

[Risk]

As for hard core sims:

I flew Jane's F/A-18 for 12 years and never got tired. It was a learning experience with every mission. Aircraft carrier landings in the dark after flying 3 hour missions produced some serious adrenaline, making Jane's F/A-18 one of the best at the time. It's too bad they stopped producing simulators because they were on the right track if you like hard core sims. With clickable cockpits and very sofisticated radars and weaponary, flying air to air or air to ground was equally challenging.

Keep in mind it was produced in the 1990's with the computers of the time running it quite well so imagine what could be done today to produce a really hard core sim. FC3 is medium core, haven't tried the other modules so I can't say about them.

 

So very true. How I miss those days and that sim. Just think about that sim today with today's technology and graphics capabilities: I'd never go to work. :)

[Risk]

We all want information, but the problem is too many can't handle the information which is exactly why the information we all want the most isn't available. The online community forums have become our own worst enemies in this regard.

 

I mean think about this for a min. When software companies have been forthcoming with information in the past, the on-line community immediately becomes critical of the information they get which in turn can and has ended up diminishing the return the software company can get from their product because of the severely negative connotations that become directly attached to the software product and the company that was only attempting to give their customers/followers the information they wanted in the first place.

 

How many times have we heard the following complaints when information about a new product or addition is announced?

 

* That's not the product I wanted them to do so I refuse to buy it

 

* They should have chosen to do this variant instead of that one

 

* It won't run on my 7 year old computer on high settings.

 

* It's not detailed or complicated enough

 

* It's too complicated for what I was looking for

 

* It's going to cost too much I shouldn't have to pay for that when I already got this 6 year old software at a deep discount

 

* We want it NOW, but if it comes out too early it's a buggy piece of crap and I've deleted off my hard drive

 

* They said they'd release it this month and it's not yet out by the 5th, these guys are idiots

 

I could go on and on, but I think you guys get the idea, we've all seen these kinds of posts in the past. The lack of information we now get is a direct result of our inability to handle the information we used to get in the past and the negative effect it had on the companies who were actually producing the software we all wanted which brings us right back to.........

 

We will be getting the information and the product when it's done and ready to be released.

 

God is that argument getting old. Why don't you just say the truth. It's not getting worked on because they don't have the resources and its not cost effective.

[GGTharos]

The argument is valid. For that matter, how would he know what's being worked on or not? While at it, how would you?

 

Tell the truth - that you don't really have a clue, neither about whether something is being worked on, nor the reasons for it being worked on or not.

 

Just because you are not seeing something right now does not mean it isn't scheduled for work, either now or later. ED is currently working on multiple projects, a bunch of which you already know about.

 

God is that argument getting old. Why don't you just say the truth. It's not getting worked on because they don't have the resources and its not cost effective.

[Speed]

There is always Fighter OPS :megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol:

 

Yea, have you seen their Dec. 31, 2012 announcement?

Sometimes it's natural to wonder if, had I known how long and difficult this journey was going to be from the outset, if I would have undertaken such a venture, I'd have to say yes though, as the reasons this project was started are, if anything, even more true today than they were back then. The high fidelity military flight simulation market is still just as abandoned and the prospect of any company or group taking up such a challenge in a conventional, commercial endeavor, which was close to zero when we started this, have plummeted further.

 

:hmm:

:huh:

:blink:

:megalol::megalol::megalol:

[blkspade]

Both wrong, DCS falls into the catagory 'edu-sim' due to the level of details and the connections with rl army's using this software to train soldiers.

 

If you read the post I was responding to you should find it was related to Flaming Cliffs as opposed to docs. Further more I'm quite sure anything in the sim genre worthy of the title is providing some level of education.