KA-50 Lost Its Magic

[Frostie]

Yes, he's correct. BS MP has lost the magic it once had.

The same servers that were present before FC3 came along are still there and they still don't use FC3 aircraft so where are you coming from?

[GGTharos]

I recall back when FC2 was made compatible with Ka-50, escorting PanzerTard (the creator of servman) in his Ka-50 to strike at an enemy airbase which was about 200km away or more, with some mountainous terrain inbetween.

 

He created his flight plan in the ABRIS, which had to necessarily take a 'side trip', and required him to take Vikhrs + fuel tanks.

 

He flew as high as he felt comfortable going at 130kph IAS (required in order to go there and make it back). EtherealN and I would fly CAP in F-15's and, knowing his route, we would warn him of danger at which point he would take evasive action; descending and slowing, possibly going into the notch.

 

He did reach that airbase, and he did deal out punishment. I can't recall if eventually a SAM got him or he made it back, but no enemy fighter ever sniffed him out and he flew TO THEIR BASE.

 

Nothing lost here, something gained more like, a new dimension. It's a new and enjoyable challenge to fly in a server with fighters on both sides, look at it as the next level, this is high profile war now and heavy casualties on both sides are inevitable.

[Frostie]

Sounds like an epic journey, it's one of those ventures that live long in the memory. I've heard a few stories of similair adventures. This level of commitment and planning makes the participation and success all the more enjoyable.

[104th_Maverick]

Lost its Magic?

 

Some people need to evaluate how they are spending their time....... and in what servers!!!

 

Flying in a server with F-10 show all enabled... and then being surprised when a fighter flies over and kills you........ it doesn't take a genius to work out that maybe you should fly in a different server. It's a bit like trying to play hide and seek in an open field with no obstacles!

 

If you join a server that has external views and or F-10 show all enabled you have to accept the risks, to be honest, I find the thought of someone complaining that the enemy keep killing them when they fly in a server with F-10 show all enabled ridiculous!

 

What did you think was going to happen? There has been no magic lost.... only logic on your part! I know lots of very very capable KA-50 pilots who fly in our server and get in and get out to the target area's.

 

If you want some of that 'Magic' back then fly in server that do not allow F-10 show all or external views!

 

Our server is not unique, there are several servers running currently that do not allow external views or F-10 show all, so in future when you join in your KA-50 and you press F-10 and can see everyone and you don't want owned all day.....

 

Join another server!

 

edit:

 

The KA-50's appear to be sitting ducks, especially with no air support

 

Really?!

 

This is no revelation sir, this was the same in FC2, in fact it's true also in real life! Which is why they don't go anywhere without air support.... you should consider operating the same way!

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... the people that are complaining about FC3 aircraft 'ruining' their MP experience have had it lucky prior to FC3 and are too used to flying around with no air threats! And as such you've gotten lazy and some of you seem to expect a free pass to and from the target area because 'it was like that before FC3'! Wake up boys and girls... the fast air is back in town!

Edited February 8, 2013 by [Maverick]

[RedRain]

Ok, perhaps I need to be a little wiser regarding choosing server/mission in the future. Obviously the caliber of pilots & sportsmanship has changed dramatically since the introduction of FC3. Just wondering where the challenge is for fast jets shooting down kA-50, are these the same pilots that choose to take on those savage killer tents or the parked truck at the side of the road, spawn killing will be the next topic ? The magic is definately sliding.

[GGTharos]

I just wonder why you think that a fast jet pilot should allow you to sit there shooting at his side's forces unimpeded. It has nothing to do with sportsmanship, if you want sport, stop shooting fish-in-a-barrel AI.

[RedRain]

If you watch Mythbusters, shooting fish in a barrel is quite a difficult challenge, unlike shooting static objects that don't move.

[Cali]

Triggers prevent PvP fighters from interfering with the co-op players. Is this realistic? No, but it certainly is more enjoyable for the co-op boys, and the PvP-ers can go head-to-head with other fighters to their heart's content.

 

I wouldn't fly in a server like that, even if I flew co-op. I like the challenge of flying against human players, I guess some people don't and want things easier.

 

 

 

Yes, he's correct. BS MP has lost the magic it once had.

 

I'll leave it at that, but he is right.

 

BS never had any magic to begin with. It's the same as back in FC2 when people flew it online.......nothing changed. I don't know why you feel that way.

[RedRain]

We're not talking about Fc2 were talking about DCSW. If your really up for an air to air challenge, jump in a shark and go hunt down some SU.

[RedRain]

I just wonder why you think that a fast jet pilot should allow you to sit there shooting at his side's forces unimpeded.

 

If he wasn't orbiting/observing near to my spawn point, he wouldnt have known where i was shooting his sides forces in the first place. By the time he would have noticed, i would be attempting to take cover behind some transparent trees, or trying to avoid being lased through terrain & buildings while the FPS drop's to 10 FPS at 8m altitude. the shark is definately loosing its magic. :joystick:

[Cali]

We're not talking about Fc2 were talking about DCSW. If your really up for an air to air challenge, jump in a shark and go hunt down some SU.

 

The Ka-50 was flyable in FC2 along with the same jets you have in DSCW now, so what is the difference....there is none....maybe less people fly mp now because of problems. Did you have FC2 or just BS and if so did you fly BS in FC2 servers?

[159th_Viper]

BS never had any magic to begin with....

 

Have you flown it online, Cali? Out of all the modules, it takes the most skill at present to operate properly and survive: As far as I am concerned Patience and Cunning always prospers over the Scoot, Shoot and Roost mentality that a majority of servers cater for.

 

It has plenty of magic, especially when you start Vikhr'ing the opponent base whilst keeping an eye on the chat window........:megalol:

[karambiatos]

my only gripe are the damn server messages, you cant shoot anything and be sneaky because the server will scream

"OH THAT GUY THERE HE KILLED DIS STUFF HERE YO"

 

and then everyone and their grandma will be on you.

[Cali]

Have you flown it online, Cali? Out of all the modules, it takes the most skill at present to operate properly and survive: As far as I am concerned Patience and Cunning always prospers over the Scoot, Shoot and Roost mentality that a majority of servers cater for.

 

It has plenty of magic, especially when you start Vikhr'ing the opponent base whilst keeping an eye on the chat window........:megalol:

 

Yes, I only fly online, I really like flying the shark. I don't know if it was 104 or 4c that had a mission I liked. Ka-50's would start off about 20-25 miles from Maykop. If you took out all the targets it turned into a friendly base and your next targets were about 15-20 miles to the northeast.....it was a very good mission. I haven't flown DCS/FC in over a year, but looking forward to it when I get back. After I fix my computer cause the wife messed it up.

 

Karambiatos, server messages do suck sometimes, it's a big neon sign saying "I'm right here!" But sometimes it is nice seeing who you killed.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Cali

[Eddie]

my only gripe are the damn server messages, you cant shoot anything and be sneaky because the server will scream

"OH THAT GUY THERE HE KILLED DIS STUFF HERE YO"

 

and then everyone and their grandma will be on you.

 

Indeed. One thing that has always amused me is how the same servers where F10 map and external views are disabled, leave kill messages etc. enabled. I find the kill/takeoff/landing and screenshot messages the single biggest immersion killer in DCS, thankfully they can be disabled either via a sever config file option or some lua editing on client side. Apart from the damn screen shot message that is.

 

As problems with missions not well designed/executed for the Ka-50, it's one of those thing that can only be solved by flying on well administered and organised servers, with other players of the same mindset. You're never going to find it in the public, jump in and go, air quake servers. Sadly in my experience few mission designers place a realistic air defense network where the mud movers can drag threats toward and/or hide in either, which doesn't help matters.

 

But that said if you're there engaging their ground forces, and there is nothing to stop them, of course a fighter pilot is going to engage you in your Hokum or Hog. After all, ultimately the job of a fighter pilot is to defend his guys on the ground. And in an A/A role that is done by preventing any hostile air assets from engaging them, and also allowing friendly air assets to engage hostile ground forces unopposed.

 

Get in, kill your target, and get out. If you're taking off carrying one of every weapon you can hang on your aircraft with a plan to hang around and kill as many things as possible, then you can be sure that you are going to die. Counter air tactics are as important for the A/G aircraft as they are for any other type. And if that means you can only kill a single group of vehicles, or even carry out just one attack run, then that is what you do.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Eddie

[Vivoune]

Helicopters ain't supposed to stand against jets, everything, afaik is as it should be, it just is, like it's been stated, a matter of mission design. When you hop in a server you shouldn't jump in your fav aircraft but in the most needed one given the current situation, or wait for the situation to allow you to man your fav aircraft. In your case, wait till you got friendlies watching over you, that makes for tremendous co-op experiences, that or hit&run back to your safe area asap fingers crossed :)

[Maximus_Lazarus]

"F10 showed aircraft of both sides"

 

:doh:

 

There's your problem

 

 

Anyway, i've seen this mission where the air to ground guys would and the air to air guys have different targets.

 

So they can stay out of eachother's hair .

 

Of course, if some jet pilot feels the need to fly for 20 minutes to attack some poor defenseless helicopter he can still do it but , it didn't happen at all .

[Frostie]

Anyway, i've seen this mission where the air to ground guys would and the air to air guys have different targets.

 

So they can stay out of eachother's hair .

 

Of course, if some jet pilot feels the need to fly for 20 minutes to attack some poor defenseless helicopter he can still do it but , it didn't happen at all .

This sort of defeats the idea of a joint MP PvP scenario, what are those A2A guys doing other than having one big furball, there is nothing to protect just a pointless mission of getting in the air and shooting any fighters that come your way. In this kind of scenario if no fighters took off then it wouldn't really matter, because the enemy fighters wouldn't be able to kill anything.

It's just another A2G turkey shoot with a deathmatch going on somewhere else, hardly inspiring teamplay.

[RIPTIDE]

as the KA-50 now appears to be loosing its magic ?

No way. Even night missions are now very much doable. A few nights ago, we had a designated OA-10C with IR pointer spotting SAMS for me in a Ka-50 with Night Goggles. Brilliant it was.!

[Furia]

The issue is that we have the tools to make it realistic or not.

It was not realistic before when a pair of helos could wipe out a full tank battalion without a sweat, neither it is realistic now if the CAP can do as pleased unopposed. To lock and engage succesfully a low level helo, the CAP must fly relatively low on the FEBA and that involves a lot od risks unless the mission has no Air Defence units neither enemy fighters.

 

So if the mission is "realistic" the tanks will have their own Air defences, and even some CAP The helos will have their own Air defences on their side of the FEBA and probably their own CAP.

That makes things realistic.

So if if one side is able to neutralize the other side CAP and the other side Air Defences, then it will be realistic sittuation that the helos would be so exposed.

 

I cannot imagine myself going hunting for helos with an F-15C when the helos are operating in an area with SAM other Air defences and with an enemy CAP nearby.

 

So it is not the helo that has lots its magic but as it has been said here, the quality of the mission.

There are great server out there with no F2 and with Fog of War activated including a realist deployment of Air defence forces that make the experience for all players (helos, fighters, Attack planes, Ground Commanders) a pleasant and realistic one.

For me now DCS Worl is even more realistic than before if the scenario is properlly designed. :thumbup:

[Watari]

ATM the hole MP gameplay sucks². I think a lot of people go on distance with that MP. In my opinion DCS A-10/BS needs to separated from FC3 except fun missions!!

 

You start the A-10 with your buddy in formation, rearming, getting ATC clerance, taxing and a F15 is faster in respawning and starting than rtb for service!!???

Ok some guys told me then i have to stay on the ground and waiting for CAP. OK!! So i asking for CAP in TS, but fighter guys somewhere in front of hunting for points and glory. :noexpression: The Situation is even changing that fast because people get shot or flying somewhere around without mission obj in mind. On a public no one escorting a "lame" A-10 into mission area.

Thats feels not right!

 

But it also have some good sides!! I have again some good times with il-2 :smilewink:

[Daniel M]

@daniel m .. i do think balance has allot to deal with this..

 

 

Sorry Kaktus, I was implying towards a ka50 being able to go head 2 head with any fast mover. I agree to your point the mission in general needs to have balance.

 

 

 

@Watari

I understand your frustration with public MP, but you have to remember its a crap shoot of what experience you get each time you log in. There are times where there's not a single person communicating, and usually it sucks. I just try and focus on a particular skill in those instances, that I need to improve. But then it makes it that much more enjoyable when you do get a few to work together.

 

Had an amazing(although drunk) time last night on the 104th with an F-15 providing cap, su going sead and a flight of 50's cleaning up ground.

 

Would I say the 50 is losing it's magic? Not at all IMHO.

[Supersheep]

@Furia: Please check your PMs :)

 

 

Super-

[Cali]

One reason I like flying mp in BMS, it's not just a air quake war. The briefing for your mission can be very in depth. To me it's way different the FC/DCS mp. No magic for the BS, maybe it's just the way that some people fly it. Get on comms and a sortie will be better, more fun then flying alone.

[Frostie]

One reason I like flying mp in BMS, it's not just a air quake war. The briefing for your mission can be very in depth. To me it's way different the FC/DCS mp.

I'm sorry Cali but if you want to fly airquake in BMS you can just hop in and go around splashing bandits, there is no need to follow any brief. You can even hop into an aircraft already flying and when you die hop into another airbourne aircraft.

It is all down to the individual/s and how he/they apply themselves.