Fw-190D9 Discussion

[NineLine]

This isnt really the thread to express your opinion one what aircraft you think ED should do, this is a discussion on one they are currently doing.

 

I have never been more confused with ED than now. My first impressions of ED, and what drove me to DCS was the incredible realism of A-10C Warthog, and how well they modeled so much of the aircraft systems. I felt like I was learning to fly a modern jet. Since I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering and I am an actual pilot, when I say I was blown away A-10C I mean it. I have know idea where ED is going, and I feel like everything they have released since then is two steps backwards. I was not impressed with the P-51 and I really do not see how it fits into the modern world simulator that only contains the Caucus region in Russia. If I want to go fly WWII era aircraft there are other sims to choose from which are strictly WWII and have the look and feel of WWII era. I think ED should let the third party developers work on the WWII era aircraft and ED should get back to what they showed us they do well.

 

I do get the feeling that ED is going the way of Microsoft and just concentrating on the infrastructure and getting out of the aircraft development business all together. They only seem to be working on aircraft with less complex systems and shorter development cycles, while they package their infrastructure and sell it to third party developers.

[PFunk1606688187]

The conversation about "Why WW2?" is stale and dead and the subject of many closed topics I'm sure. Lets not make the moderators work harder having to clean this one up.

 

There is simply one thing to know. DCS World is a platform. Its not a modern jet platform, its not a WW2 fighter platform, its meant as a platform for simulation and whatever can be successfully built inside that environment will be accepted, within ED's purview.

 

If someone says "Why WW2? I thought we wanted to fly modern jets?" I will reply that I think they apparently missed the bit about FC3 aircraft being upgraded to have some DCS level fidelity, the news of the obviously modern theatre map for Nevada and the upcoming DCS F-18C which is, last time I checked, not a Luftwaffe aircraft but a bonafide death dealing machine of righteous American freedom loving slaughter-science.

 

I would also surmise that any energy spent on the WW2 fighters isn't taking away from their schedule on the F-18. Your only reasonable gripe should then be that they're not making a jet from the modern era with that Focke Wulf man power, at which point you get lots of talk about how modern aircraft have flight models but also complex avionics that are thankfully absent from a WW2 fighter and thus the FW will come out before the F-18 for this reason, requiring much less manpower and also a whole lot less work trying to figure out how to get around modeling still classified systems which a WW2 fighter won't have.

 

Synopsis: *yawn*

[Echo38]

I was not impressed with the P-51

Why the hell not? What part of the P-51D is modelled less well than the A-10C?

 

If I want to go fly WWII era aircraft there are other sims to choose from which are strictly WWII and have the look and feel of WWII era.

 

There are no other sims to choose from which have DCS-level modelling (hi-fi FM & hi-fi eng&sys). Why you would imply that there are is baffling to me.

 

I'm not an E.D. shill; there are things that E.D. does which I don't agree with. They have some priorities which I don't share. But you're out of line here--not only for the reasons mentioned by others in the preceding couple of posts, but also because of the reasons I gave. WWII fighters aren't your bag; fine. But don't pretend that there's a disparity in quality between the A-10C module and the P-51D, and don't pretend that there are viable alternatives to DCS for those of us who want a maximum-realism WWII fighter. There are not.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Echo38

[NineLine]

Does anyone have any D-9 cockpit images confirming the heading & climb indicator gauges position. From what I have found the layout is from a D-13, and in a D-9 they are switched left to right. Perhaps it was a pilot tweak thing, or just a change between revisions, or simply an error in restoration if possible? Anyways, all signs pointing to these two gauges being in the wrong places.

[gavagai]

Image 4 has a small-ish cockpit photo.

 

 

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=507

 

Order seems to be with the vsi on the right.

Edited July 22, 2013 by gavagai

[NineLine]

Yeah, thats the one I saw, seems to confirm the gauges are switched...

 

They have link to hi-res one:

 

[Foul Ole Ron]

They seem to be both the DCS way and the other way around as well sometimes in other pics I could find. Hard to say definitively which is the correct way - maybe both are perfectly fine. I don't have any official docs or anything.

 

DCS way:

 

 

 

Other way around:

 

[NineLine]

Yup, its possible it was a pilots preference, some sort of revision change for some reason, or who knows what... Its not a huge deal, just seemed most I found the way DCS has it seem to be in later model Ds like the 13....

 

The top picture is nice by the way, where is that from?

[Foul Ole Ron]

Found it on this page where, now that I do google translate on it, I can see it states it's a replica so probably not reliable as a source...

 

http://www.bredow-web.de/RAF_Museum/Focke_Wulf_Fw_190/focke_wulf_fw_190.html

[SkateZilla]

it's not a huge deal now, but when the module is released it will cause a storm if it's on the wrong side.. watch and see..

[SkateZilla]

. See Attach

[NineLine]

Of course... WWII simmers are a different breed as this thread is a reasonably calm discussion... unlike say the IL2 forums :)

 

it's not a huge deal now, but when the module is released it will cause a storm if it's on the wrong side.. watch and see..

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Interesting operational report about Fw 190 D-9 equipped with EZ 42 from JG 6, signed by Gerhard Barkhorn. From Jerry Crandall's Fw 190 Dora book.

Interesting read ... thank you!

 

Regarding the Fw.190D cockpit layout; the 3 left-most instruments layout match the top row of the Einheits-Blindfluggerätetafel (Basic 6) of the Luftwaffe, so it suggests the VSI should indeed be directly to the right of the artificial horizon.

This also matches the Classic Hangar version of the Fw.190D (FSX model, still going strong), see picture below.

 

Edited July 22, 2013 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[IvanK]

Why this discussion that MW50 wont be modelled ? The cockpit images shown so far show the MW50 pressure gauge on the lower instrument panel.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

MW50 (50% Methanol, 49.5% Water, 0.5% oil - emergency booster) gauge for reference ...

Edited July 23, 2013 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[sobe]

I am a little confused. I just downloaded the latest upgrade to World, A10 and BS2 and now the manager module has the FW 190 listed with a green check mark but no serial number. Whats going on as I don't have the P51 module?

[NineLine]

I am a little confused. I just downloaded the latest upgrade to World, A10 and BS2 and now the manager module has the FW 190 listed with a green check mark but no serial number. Whats going on as I don't have the P51 module?

 

 

Even if you dont have the P-51 Module, you will still have the AI version of the 190 right now

[NineLine]

Why this discussion that MW50 wont be modelled ? The cockpit images shown so far show the MW50 pressure gauge on the lower instrument panel.

 

 

The switch to turn it on or off isnt there though... unless I am missing it.

[IvanK]

The switch to turn it on or off isnt there though... unless I am missing it.

 

I see your point there. However that in-itself is open to further debate. Some documentation indicates a simple ON OFF switch on the left console near the throttle. Other documentation (lmages with description) show a substantial Valve type switch located on the lower main instrument panel above the pilots knee. A drawing of this is in the Aerodetail book 2 FW190D9 (note there are some errors in the diag)

 

whilst a WWII image showing this valve is present in the Dora book by Eagle publications authored by Crandall. Interestingly this aircraft does not have an mW50 pressure guage.

 

 

I guess there is also further complication as there are references to Both Low Pressure MW50 systems and High pressure MW50 systems, though some confusion exists as to exactly which D variant got what. What is certain is that initial operational D9's were not equipped with MW50. It is my "belief" that the Valve type on off lever and lack of MW50 guage implies the Low pressure MW50 system. If a Gauge and On/Off switch near the throttle is present (seen in many TA152 cockpit images) then that is indicative of the High pressure MW50 system being fitted. The absence of any MW50 controls and or switches implies No MW50 fitted ... as in the initial early operational types. However it would appear that the majority of operational D9's were equipped with MW50 be it Low pressure or High pressure systems. So the norm was MW50 equipped.

 

Looking at various "restored" D cockpits leads to further confusion as instrument layout (and even the instruments themselves) is very confused. Some have an additional fuel gauge in place of the MW50 pressure gauge for example. Seems to me there was a hole so the restorers decided to fill it with something.

 

Such fun researching these things :)

Edited July 23, 2013 by IvanK

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

"Dieser Schalter diente zum Einschalten des MW50-Betriebes. Die eigentliche MW50-Zufuhr wurde erst über einen Kontakt am Gashebel gesteuert (Gashebel Vollanschlag). Dieser Kippschalter war nötig, da der Behälter für den Sonderkraftstoff auch als Zusatzbehälter für normalen Kraftstoff benutzt werden konnte. Dann war dieser Schalter auf AUS zu stellen, da sonst bei Vollanschlag des Gashebels Kraftstoff in die Luftansaugleitung gespritzt worden wäre."

 

The switch was used to enable the MW50. The original design MW50-supply was to be controlled by a contact on the throttle (full throttle contact). The switch was necessary because the reservoir for the special MW-mix could also be used as spare-reservoir for regular fuel. In that case, the switch should be "AUS" ("OFF"). Otherwise, at full throttle (contact made), regular fuel would be pumped into the air intake.

 

Edited July 25, 2013 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[diveplane]

jumo powerplant

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OIYOjyjYE

[IvanK]

"Otherwise, at full throttle (contact made), regular fuel would be pumped into the air intake."

 

Though documentation also exists on this Power boosting method (Sonder Notleistung) on the JUMO213 as well.... Additional fuel injection into the Supercharger eye to serve as a charge coolant with or without MW50.So we can have multiple power boost systems:

 

Sonder Notleistung additional fuel injectio into the Supercharger.

Additional Fuel injection plus MW50 "Sonder Notleistung mit Laderdruckerhoehung mit MW50"

MW50 Lo pressure

MW50 High pressure

 

In IL2 two D9 versions were modelled one with the additional fuel injection ... referred in IL2 as Erhote Notleistung (but probably should have been labelled Sonder Notleistung) and a second variable that just had MW50.

Edited July 23, 2013 by IvanK

[NineLine]

That sounds so good diveplane, sampled from the real thing?

 

COuld you image 20 of those birds in a dogfight overhead wow...

 

jumo powerplant

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OIYOjyjYE

[diveplane]

That sounds so good diveplane, sampled from the real thing?

 

COuld you image 20 of those birds in a dogfight overhead wow...

 

 

with great help from member Isegrim we managed to audio recreate the jumo in its glory.

there is no flyable jumo engines in the world atm.

 

but from some factsheet data provided by Isegrim we recreated the jumo nicely ingame.

 

we think that the jumo 213 engine is very similar to the bf109 605 sound wise but higher rpms.

Edited July 23, 2013 by diveplane

[Flagrum]

jumo powerplant

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OIYOjyjYE

 

flight sim porn par excellence! :thumbup: