Fw-190D9 Discussion

[Silver_Dragon]

have a threat open

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101661&highlight=fw-190

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

have a threat open

Danke!

[diveplane]

Fw-190D9 sound must change.

same as p-51d.

 

check here for the fix

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OIYOjyjYE

Edited July 23, 2013 by diveplane

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Awesome new cockpit pictures ... thank you Wags!

Notice how minimalist the cockpit layout looks compared to the P-51 ...

I'm liking the quote "Verkauft's mei G'wand, I foahr in Himmel" ("Sell my clothes, I'm going to heaven"); words famously uttered by a dying Ferdinand Sauter (Austrian poet), and used on his plane by Heinz Sachsenberg.

Plane should have designation "1" instead of "12", since it's the "Sachsenberg Schwarm" squadron leader himself.

Nice paintscheme with red and white belly, making it easier for German FLAK-crews to distinguish bewteen friend and foe.

 

 

 

For reference, © art by Thomas A. Tullis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[NineLine]

The cockpit looks great, cant wait to fly her...

[Foul Ole Ron]

I'm a little puzzled by the inclusion of the ez-42 sight. I know that they put around 200 into 190s and 262s for field testing but we're looking at something that was in around maybe 5% of the 1800+ 190 D9s produced as it seems like the 262 was given the priority for the installation of the new sights. If ED are modelling a general representation of a 190 I would think that the Revi 16B should be the sight used.

[NineLine]

I am ok with this, as it seems its the better site, and I would like to see the Dora modeled with the best equipment that was made available to it.

 

I'm a little puzzled by the inclusion of the ez-42 sight. I know that they put around 200 into 190s and 262s for field testing but we're looking at something that was in around maybe 5% of the 1800+ 190 D9s produced as it seems like the 262 was given the priority for the installation of the new sights. If ED are modelling a general representation of a 190 I would think that the Revi 16B should be the sight used.

[PFunk1606688187]

I am ok with this, as it seems its the better site, and I would like to see the Dora modeled with the best equipment that was made available to it.

 

I don't usually like this mentality in simulator design. To me realism is as much about the equipment on board as it is in the accuracy of its depiction. Sometimes the "best equipment available" is something just about any pilot who actually flew it wouldn't be able to claim they used.

 

I like historical consistency I guess.

[otto]

ez-42 sight had many reliability problems and the me 262 pilots used it in fixed mode(just like a REVI-16B) rather than gyro.So for realism we can do the same.

[NineLine]

ez-42 sight had many reliability problems and the me 262 pilots used it in fixed mode(just like a REVI-16B) rather than gyro.So for realism we can do the same.

 

 

That's what my understanding was too...

[Fritz17031962]

I hope they make the Start procedure correct.

Push the Starter Knob and the Sarter must turning to speed ,

When you hear he has enough speed you must pull the Knob.

But now the Starter turn the engine.

Its in the most German WW2 Airplanes the self procedure.

Please excuse my English ,its to long ago when i was in scool.:music_whistling:

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Please excuse my English, its too long ago when I was in school. :music_whistling:

I think we got your point quite clearly, don't worry.

Just hope starting the engine won't be anything like

.

Imagine getting the right inertia of the flywheel by means of mousewheel turns ...

 

To me realism is as much about the equipment on board as it is in the accuracy of its depiction.

As far as historical accuracy; I would like to see the Swastika included on the tail, but I'm afraid the world is not ready for that step.

Regarding the EZ 42; it better matches the P-51D, even though not many German planes were outfitted with gyro sights.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[gavagai]

Regarding the EZ 42; it better matches the P-51D, even though not many German planes were outfitted with gyro sights.

 

Who cares? Not everything is fair. Do we give the P-51 20mm cannons to match the 190's firepower?:doh:

 

 

I want the Revi.

Edited July 22, 2013 by gavagai

[Suchacz]

Agree, war is not a fair game :D

[Foul Ole Ron]

Every plane had advantages and disadvantages back then and one of the advantages that the Mustang had over the 190 was that it had a lead computing sight. All P51Ds from the 20-NA block on in mid 1944 had this sight fitted as standard which amounts to 5000+ planes. It was also retrofitted to older blocks though I don't have the exact numbers but for example Old Crow which was a 10-NA block was retrofitted by the start of '45.

 

On the other hand there was probably at best 100 FW190s fitted with the ez-42 out of a total of 1800+ D-9s produced. There's very few combat reports about them being used and either due to equipment malfunctions or a lack of pilot training in their use those few planes that did have them often seemed to use them in fixed mode. I don't think it should be the sight modelled just out of fairness or game balance. In my opinion what should be modelled is the most usual representation of what was in the model of the plane so we get to experience the advantages and disadvantages the pilots faced back then.

[[DBS]TH0R]

More about the windshield and canopy:

 

 

 

No corrections to the external model as I can see, the cockpit looks spot on though.

[Fox One]

Interesting operational report about Fw 190 D-9 equipped with EZ 42 from JG 6, signed by Gerhard Barkhorn. From Jerry Crandall's Fw 190 Dora book.

[NineLine]

The pilot needs to look grumpier though... :D

 

As always keep the opinions coming and I will report those items I can verify.

 

As for the sights, if they were not used in combat at all I would be worried, but they were, and when they worked they were the better sight. It would be cool if the malfunctions could be replicated from time to time, with random failures, but anyways... I have no issue there, I have more issue of the option for the MW 50 not being included, but mostly because I would have enjoyed the management of it.

 

No corrections to the external model as I can see, the cockpit looks spot on though.

Edited July 22, 2013 by NineLine

[gavagai]

The pilot needs to look grumpier though... :D

 

As always keep the opinions coming and I will report those items I can verify.

 

As for the sights, if they were not used in combat at all I would be worried, but they were, and when they worked they were the better sight. It would be cool if the malfunctions could be replicated from time to time, with random failures, but anyways... I have no issue there, I have more issue of the option for the MW 50 not being included, but mostly because I would have enjoyed the management of it.

 

I feel very positive about DCS developments, so don't take this criticism the wrong way:

 

Opting for the gyro sight but not MW50 is including something that wasn't common and not including something that was more common. Isn't that against the spirit of a sim like DCS?

[NineLine]

At the end of the day they ned to make the final decisions on what they model and what they dont, it may come down to documentation, I dont know. I know the Dora is still a pretty stout aircraft even without the MW 50, so I cant complain too much, and the sight... I'd rather see the newer one than an older one, many aircraft during that time went through different field upgrades and such, pilots would change things to their liking, etc... so while maybe not a lot of D-9s had the sight, some did, so really makes it historical accurate in that sense.

 

I feel very positive about DCS developments, so don't take this criticism the wrong way:

 

Opting for the gyro sight but not MW50 is including something that wasn't common and not including something that was more common. Isn't that against the spirit of a sim like DCS?

[gavagai]

Fair enough. Is there a bit of trepidation about *how* to model MW50 boost that prevents its inclusion?

 

MW50 will be necessary to model any of the later Bf 109 variants.

[NineLine]

I dont know the reasons behind it not being included, I was only offering theories. I know documents exsist out there beyond the internet, its just a matter of acquiring so I doubt that is the reason, but as I said, I dont know.

 

Fair enough. Is there a bit of trepidation about *how* to model MW50 boost that prevents its inclusion?

 

MW50 will be necessary to model any of the later Bf 109 variants.

[gavagai]

A word of caution, as this is a wikipedia passage that is supposedly backed up by a Caldwell citation, but it is telling nonetheless:

 

The fighter lacked the high turn rate and higher rate of roll of its close coupled radial-engined predecessor. It was a bit faster, however, with a maximum speed of 680 km/h (422 mph) at 6,600 meters (21,650 ft). Its 2,240 horsepower with methanol-water injection (MW 50) gave it an excellent acceleration in combat situations. It also climbed and dived more rapidly than the Fw 190A, and so proved well suited to the dive-and-zoom ambush tactics favored by the Schlageter fighter wing's pilots from November 1944 onward, when the wing converted to the Fw 190D. Many of the early models were not equipped with tanks for methanol for the MW 50 boost system, which was in very short supply in any event. At low altitude, the top speed and acceleration of these examples were inferior to those of Allied fighters. Hans Hartigs recalled that only one of the first batch of Dora 9s received by the First Gruppe had methanol water injection, and the rest had a top speed of only 590 km/h (360 mph).

[NineLine]

No need to convince me, I have no doubt that they put the MW 50 on the aircraft for good reason. :) It was definitely a system that got used when available, you can read accounts by 109 pilots that used it as well...

[Risk]

I have never been more confused with ED than now. My first impressions of ED, and what drove me to DCS was the incredible realism of A-10C Warthog, and how well they modeled so much of the aircraft systems. I felt like I was learning to fly a modern jet. Since I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering and I am an actual pilot, when I say I was blown away A-10C I mean it. I have know idea where ED is going, and I feel like everything they have released since then is two steps backwards. I was not impressed with the P-51 and I really do not see how it fits into the modern world simulator that only contains the Caucus region in Russia. If I want to go fly WWII era aircraft there are other sims to choose from which are strictly WWII and have the look and feel of WWII era. I think ED should let the third party developers work on the WWII era aircraft and ED should get back to what they showed us they do well.

 

I do get the feeling that ED is going the way of Microsoft and just concentrating on the infrastructure and getting out of the aircraft development business all together. They only seem to be working on aircraft with less complex systems and shorter development cycles, while they package their infrastructure and sell it to third party developers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love everything ED did with the A-10C, I just did not come to DCS to fly scale-down aircraft (e.x. FC3 or WWII era)

Edited July 22, 2013 by Risk