tflash Posted December 7, 2005 Posted December 7, 2005 Where is the time we had these lengthy discussions in Ubisoft's Lockon forum on the F-22? Not that I want to revive this stuff (could be a clever evasive manoever now d-scythe's and GG's missiles are homing in on my Sahr theories :=) But there was some interesting new stuff in Combat Aircraft on the raptor: - trust vectoring Very interesting, they claim the main reason for this is not superdogfight manoevrability, but sufficient control in the thin airspace at very high altitude to get a good launch position - stealth and OCA/CAP Due to its stealth, the raptor can pursue enemy aircraft well within their protected airspace. The F-15C large RCS prohibits the plane from doing this. Was indeed, if I remember right, a true problem during southern watch where Mig-25's managed to escape time and time again by flying into Iraqi MEZ just in time. - jdam smashing The F/A-22 can throw the GBU-38 jdam at supersonic speeds from high altitude, thereby maximizing standoff range and making it most suitable against air defenses. Of course, in Lockon unfortunately this jdam bomb would be annihilated by a Tunguska (oh not that again!) before hitting ground :=) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Yellonet Posted December 7, 2005 Posted December 7, 2005 Eh.... this has been known for 10+ years. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
SuperKungFu Posted December 7, 2005 Posted December 7, 2005 :confused: ...so....are you asking lock on to have the F-22 or something? Because that would just kill the game. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
BIOLOG Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Actually, that's just not gona happen. Full stop. The bird of Hermes is my name eating my wings to make me tame.
SuperKungFu Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 I'm pretty sure he is aware not to ask for an F-22 because he saw that ubi thread. lol, we smashed that idea to the ground, dont make me smash this one. lol [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
SUBS17 Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 A Tungaska won't stop a supersonic JDAM launched from an F22, it wouldn't know what hit it. I think the F22s an amazing aircraft, having heard some rumours on what its performance is like against F-15s and F-16s it really is the new king of ACM. An AI F22 would be cool but human controlled would unbalance online playing. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
diveplane Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 just a matter off time before the stealth, becomes unstealthed with a f22, b2 and steath fighter sensor in the cockpit ..... says bearing alt speed ...:>), last i herd that a nation was messing with such tech.....in its infant state......ring ring ring hello mom that you ..........hold on , FIRE .....BOOOOM lol https://www.youtube.com/user/diveplane11 DCS Audio Modding.
GGTharos Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 just a matter off time before the stealth, becomes unstealthed with a f22, b2 and steath fighter sensor in the cockpit ..... says bearing alt speed ...:>) A matter of LONG time. Your EWR's might tell where they are (at erduced range) but your fighter's radar and weapons won't track. You can't change the laws of physics, and that's exactly what you're fighting. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Guest ruggbutt Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Scuze me, but I'm rewriting the physics book as I speak. I'm going to change some of that stuff that's been bothering me. Like a glass breaking when you drop it in the kitchen. That and gravity effect on women's hooties. They'll all be perky. I'll get back with ya'll when I'm done. :D
Civil_Genius Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 did anyone else get a chance to see the F/A-22 Raptor Demo at Edwards Air Force Base Airshow on October 22nd or 23rd of 2005.
Arizona Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 - trust vectoring I've never heard of "trust vectoring" before - perhaps it makes people believe whatever you want them to believe. Maybe a new mission for the F/A-22? Psyops? Arizona
SuperKungFu Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 lol trust vectoring:tongue: ...is where he pinpoints his convincing skills at people duh. i didnt even see that typo, nice find. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Force_Feedback Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Yeah, yeah, it was an offshoot of the MK ULTRA project, but in this case, they tried feeding LSD to an airplane, now the poor thing has gone haywire and wants to destroy the world, but it needs fuel, so it refuels from giant stealth blimps flying all over the world, and then it would drop a bomb on the Russkies, but then those su-37s come, just to be outmanoeuvred by the 1337 stealth plane with a triple Cobra and get an amraam in the su-37s tailpipe, which then completely explodes. Meanwhile, in North Korea, a brave pilot fights for her life, after tampering with the ejection seats' barostat and time delayed initiator in flight... P.S. the dude who started this thread should see Stealth and then go and play Ace Fighters 4 on the PS2 with his mates under the possible enjoyment of a big fat blunt. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Megile Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Where is the time we had these lengthy discussions in Of course, in Lockon unfortunately this jdam bomb would be annihilated by a Tunguska (oh not that again!) before hitting ground :=) :D
tflash Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 Ok I made a nice typo guys ... sorry for that. To me anyway the motivation for thrust vectoring on such an aircraft was new indeed. Also the fact that it would take up a kind of SEAD role in the global strike concept. And no, I'm NOT asking for an F/A-22 in Lockon, of course. I think the current philosophy of modelling what can be realistically modelled and with sufficient available info is the right one. And also no, I wont go see the stealth movie! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
tflash Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 Eh.... this has been known for 10+ years. Then you must have known already ten years what the USAF just only recently demonstrated, the ability to succesfully drop a JDAM at supersonic speeds (and that from an internal bay BTW). Am I the one who's having phantasies about the raptor here or what? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
jakethesnake630 Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Thanks for the info btw, I didn't know some of these facts, especially about the bomb thing. Very cool. Also, I always thought thrust vectoring was for greater turning in dogfights. I don't understand some of the replies in this thread, not everyone has been researching about the FA22 for 10 years. :confused: :icon_jook
Yellonet Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Then you must have known already ten years what the USAF just only recently demonstrated, the ability to succesfully drop a JDAM at supersonic speeds (and that from an internal bay BTW). Am I the one who's having phantasies about the raptor here or what?Ok, that info was new... but nothing really spectacular. The F-22 is ugly and have no soul, I wouldn't like it in a sim. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
BladeLWS Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Ok, that info was new... but nothing really spectacular. The F-22 is ugly and have no soul, I wouldn't like it in a sim. Neither would I, because I wouldn't know it was there until an AMRAAM went into terminal guidance mode on me. But saying that the F/A-22 is ugly and that it has no soul, thems fightin words... Come to think of it with the Raptors 35,000lbs thrust engines and high altitude capabilities it may be able to fly above the missile envelopes of current Russian fighters LOL. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-22-weaps-mg27.gif Oh and guys, if it carries external pylons it can carry EIGHT AMRAAM's externally along with the six internally (along with two sidewinders in the waist bays) in the ferry config. That would be quite the pucker factor there with 14 AMRAAM's pointed in your face... even though the stealth characteristics would be shot, I don't think anything could survive that missile load. And those'll probably be AIM-120D model's with 50% more range than the Charlie model.
Guest ruggbutt Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 The F-22 is ugly and have no soul, I wouldn't like it in a sim. No soul like a great white about to attack........... :D
Manny Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 A matter of LONG time. Your EWR's might tell where they are (at erduced range) but your fighter's radar and weapons won't track. You can't change the laws of physics, and that's exactly what you're fighting. Well, the laws of physics are certainly not somehow manipulated to the advantage of stealth technology either GG. It is my opinion that completely inhibiting B & H field electromagnetic radiation is impossible, there will still be leakage. There is no technology that prohibits total external reflection either. The RCS may be reduced to the size of a bird on radar, but that doesn't mean it will be filtered to noise levels either. The F-22 itself will be radiating high frequency E-Mag energy from its' own radar to search for aircraft. EWRs will be alive even if the F-22 is also attempting to Jam in an attempt to degrade them. An F-22 supercrusing at above Mach 1 will have highly visible Infrared radiation due to local heating of the skin. An Infrared Search and Track will likely have no problem simply seeing the F-22. Also, the greatest effect of attempting to inhibit E-Mag is forward aspect. If the F-22 conducts maneuvering outside that aspect, there will likely be a full bloom on the enemy radar. What about attackers approaching from all multiple quadrants? The F-22 is simply not "invisible." If it can be seen non-BVR, it will be killed. If it can be detected, primarily by ground control first then vectoring planes to turn on your radar and "look here", it will be detected. It is also a fact that the French received radar returns from F-117 Stealth Fighters during the Gulf War. French Radar tracked the F-117s in a fligtht and had to confrim to US Command these aircraft were theirs. Even further than that, Serbians using a modified SAM, locked onto an F-117 overflying the region and engaged it, destroying the aircraft. Much has been written regarding this. Perhaps the Serbians had hacked into comms, knew the routes, and conducted hotshot procedures in the hopes to down one. I don't think this is the case. I feel certain the 117 was re-radiating the SAM's E-Mag and BOOM, gotcha.
BladeLWS Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Manny the F-117 has been around since 1982, it was designed in the 1970's, so yea its stealth capabilities are outdated. The Raptors radar changes the shape, power, and direction of the radar beam continuously making it hard to track. Anyways it doesn't always need to use the radar all the time, since the Raptor has two IRST systems, one in each wing behind faceted windows.
Manny Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 ...Come to think of it with the Raptors 35,000lbs thrust engines and high altitude capabilities it may be able to fly above the missile envelopes of current Russian fighters LOL.... Hehe, I seriously doubt that. The SR-71 that typically cruised at Mach 3.2 could easily outrun SAMS fired at it because they would waste propellant climbing to altitude to reach the bird and by then, they would simply poof in the air. Not so for the U-2, unfortunately. No consider a smaller version of a SAM at 30,000 feet and an F-22 at 45,000 feet. The missile comes off the rails and is soon travelling at well above Mach 3 toward the F-22. Then comes the limitation...solid fuel. It runs out and soon the missile is coasting upward toward the F-22. It is slowly decelerating under Mach 3 and pullin gs to get good aspect on the bird. Only, it is an R-27T and the F-22 has no indication of launch since the platform enaged with the IRST. Shortly before the F-22 pilot is bailing at 45,000 feet, the missile is now approaching Mach 1 and in proximity for detonation. Since the air is thin up there, the compressibility of air is tremendous and the F-22 is soon on it's way down. This is exactly what happened to the U-2 only it was a total of 14 SA-2s shot and since the SA-2 is a proximity fuse radar guided missile, it was up to the compression of air to crush the plane and bring it down. Of course true combat is the only way to determine this.
Manny Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Manny the F-117 has been around since 1982, it was designed in the 1970's, so yea its stealth capabilities are outdated. The Raptors radar changes the shape, power, and direction of the radar beam continuously making it hard to track. Anyways it doesn't always need to use the radar all the time, since the Raptor has two IRST systems, one in each wing behind faceted windows. Yeah, it has 2 IRST systems? I was wondering when the US would catch up with the Soviets in the use of that tech. Well playing field is a bit more even now, eh? I heard the Soviets borrowed the concept from the Bell Cobra and mad a practical IRST system that is usable.... can anyone cofirm this?
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