MSFFB2 fps drop

[gavagai]

I have no idea how to put forward evidence. I just push a button and notice a delay compared to ffb turned off in the launcher menu. We need an ED tester to step up and try to replicate these bugs (if they haven't already?).

[Katmandu]

Ok, fingers crossed that this will make it into next beta patch - I wasnt goint ot bother with beta patches, but I have an incentive now.

 

Many thanks for starting this thread btw, I had no idea fps could relate to FF!

[PeterP]

Fix for lag in the FFB-Stick input after hitting the trim button in the UH-1H after patch 1.2.6 >>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...80#post1866980

Edited September 9, 2013 by PeterP

[gavagai]

Ok, thanks PeterP! Does this restore stick shake, too? I guess I will have to try it out.

 

I already reverted to 1.2.5, so I will have to update again to 1.2.6 to see...

 

-----------

 

Nevermind, there is no sticktimelag line in the lua file for the P-51.

Edited September 10, 2013 by gavagai

[cichlidfan]

Ok, thanks PeterP! Does this restore stick shake, too? I guess I will have to try it out.

 

I already reverted to 1.2.5, so I will have to update again to 1.2.6 to see...

 

If you have the disk space to run two installs, copy your 1.2.5 install to a new folder name and then edit the shortcuts to match. Then let your original 1.2.5 update.

[gavagai]

Yeah, I might try his whole procedure for resetting an input profile. I guess it's about time I have two DCS installs.:P

[gavagai]

OK! I got rid of the input delay by removing the old joystick and keyboard lua files from c:\user\saved games\dcs\config\input

Then I loaded the default lua:

c:\program files\eagle dynamics\dcs world\mods\aircrafts\p-51d\input\p-51d

 

Still no stick shake, but at least this is playable with 1.2.6.

 

---------------

 

With more testing I see that there is still a slight input delay sometimes, it's just not nearly as bad as it was.

Edited September 10, 2013 by gavagai

[gavagai]

Ok, here is the deal I've noticed with input delay: it exactly mirrors the original FPS drop I described at the beginning of the thread. That is, when you first spawn into a quick mission, there is no input delay and everything seems fine. However, start making some turns and pull some Gs, and then the input delay hits.

 

This can make it seem like the problem has gone away when you test a change, but instead it is just waiting to start again.

[Bearcat]

I thought this was my guns jamming on the P-51..

[c0ff]

Ok, here is the deal I've noticed with input delay: it exactly mirrors the original FPS drop I described at the beginning of the thread. That is, when you first spawn into a quick mission, there is no input delay and everything seems fine. However, start making some turns and pull some Gs, and then the input delay hits.

 

Thanks for the report.

It's now pretty clear how to fix this. Stay tuned.

[gavagai]

Ah, great to hear from you! Any comment on what happened to stick shake in 1.2.6? That seems to be nonfunctional or disfunctional for every ffb user.

[Katmandu]

Ok, here is the deal I've noticed with input delay: it exactly mirrors the original FPS drop I described at the beginning of the thread. That is, when you first spawn into a quick mission, there is no input delay and everything seems fine. However, start making some turns and pull some Gs, and then the input delay hits.

 

This can make it seem like the problem has gone away when you test a change, but instead it is just waiting to start again.

 

Thanks for the report.

It's now pretty clear how to fix this. Stay tuned.

 

Thanks to gavagai for great research into the problem and to c0ff for not abandoning us! :thumbup:

Edited September 17, 2013 by Katmandu

[DD_Fenrir]

Hi Gav,

 

I too have delayed button inputs and lack of stick shake. However...

 

I'm wondering if the lack of elevator buffet is prototypical? One Cpt Jess Thompson of the 55th FG based at Wormingford UK, 1944 said:

 

"One of the endearing qualities of the old Curtiss P-40 was its unfailing habit of shaking the stick at the edge of a stall. The Mustang usually let you know that it had run out of flying speed by doing a violent snap roll - I never learned to appreciate that characteristic!"

 

So question really is should it be there, I guess?

 

Personally I want stick shake, even if only very slight, as an analogous simulation to pre-stall buffet (which effects the wing and airframe rather than stick buffet which is the elevators being disturbed by the turbulent airflow from the wings). This effect is apparent in low speed stalls with the DCS: P-51D, visually and sonically, though it is subtle.

 

Given the lack of a feasible seat vibration device (and before anyone yells "Buttkicker!" that device operates only by oscillating in response to bass sound output, not force-feedback output) I'd like to keep some tactile sense of the aircraft's stall behaviour/characteristics and would like to have it back.

 

Next point - is anyone else getting aileron snatching to the right at the stall? I am, and it's disconcerting! Is it accurate for the Mustang?

[BBQ]

Is using simFFB a temporary workaround for this issue? Not the missing shake feature -- but the input delay and general FFB features.

Edited September 17, 2013 by BBQ
clarification

[gavagai]

Hi Fenrir,

 

Yes, I agree that Mustang had an unpredictable stall. The issue with stick shake is that it is absent from all DCS modules now. I've only seen one person mention that it was working, and he described it as a shake that would not stop. If the absence of stick shake were an intentional thing to simulate the P-51's stall characteristics I think ED would have announced it.

 

Aileron snatching was strong enough in the Mustang to literally rip the control column from the pilot's hands. So, yes, I think it is accurate! The P-51 was a bitch to fly before the pilot learned its quirks. Read about the Reno air races and how many pilots have died due to the P-51's accelerated stall characteristics...:(

[Kwiatek]

Manual for P-51D says that stall is preceded by airframe buffeting:

 

" The aircraft is susceptible to high speed stalls, but not any more so than any other high speed aircraft. A buffeting of the tail section occurs about 5 to 10 MPH above the stall. All that is necessary to recover from a high speed stall is to release the back pressure on the stick and then recovery is almost instantaneous.

Recovery from a normal stall is the same. The buffeting, however, occurs at about 3 to 5 miles per hour above the stall."

 

" A stall occurs when the aircraft is unable to generate sufficient lift for controlled flight, usually on one of both wings. This results in a loss of control to various degrees, leading to a possible wing-over or an uncontrolled spin in the worst case. The P-51 stalling characteristics are generally mild and recoverable. In general, a stall is preceded by airframe buffeting. Stalling speeds vary greatly depending on the gross weight and the external loading of the aircraft. Lowering the flaps and landing gear reduces stall speeds considerably.

Recovery from a stall on the P-51 is normal. In early onset, simply releasing the stick and rudder to drop the nose will recover control. If a wing-drop condition occurs, applying opposite rudder and releasing the stick will recover control."

 

So i think there is some bug with FF effect in 1.2.6. and i want my stall shake effect back :)

Edited September 19, 2013 by Kwiatek

[-Mop-]

Please fix it... otherwise i´m fixed to the ground... if you once flew the Pony with ffb you you can never roll back...

[gavagai]

I haven't seen mention of a FFB fix for 1.2.7? Should we expect an improvement?

 

I'm still using 1.2.5 at the moment. Thanks!

[Echo38]

I'm wondering if the lack of elevator buffet is prototypical? One Cpt Jess Thompson of the 55th FG based at Wormingford UK, 1944 said:

 

So question really is should it be there, I guess?

 

Bear in mind that different models of the same aircraft sometimes had significantly different stalling characteristics. I recall that certain earlier model P-40s had nastier stall characteristics than the later ones. So, just because a document says that "the Mustang" has X stall characteristic doesn't necessarily mean that the P-51D should. He could be talking about a P-51B or whatever. Also, regarding "recovery is almost instantaneous": be very careful about subjective words like this. One man's "instantaneous" can be another man's "forever." E.g. the example of the "accelerated away very rapidly" P-40 that turned out to be only 400 feet in 60 seconds ...

Edited December 6, 2013 by Echo38

[-Mop-]

I haven't seen mention of a FFB fix for 1.2.7? Should we expect an improvement?

 

I'm still using 1.2.5 at the moment. Thanks!

 

 

NO... ED wants to earn Money with new modules and obviously forgets old customers like us:mad:... i´m very sad about this

[GriffonBR]

NO... ED wants to earn Money with new modules and obviously forgets old customers like us:mad:... i´m very sad about this

 

Yep, ED forced me to change my SWFF2 to a CH Fighterstick, it works well but it´s no the same felling as gavagai said once.

I can't understand why they messed up with the semi-fix that they did for the 1.2.5 and what they did for 1.2.6 for this fix disappear.

[gavagai]

FFB support is in the news for 1.2.7!

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117328

 

:pilotfly:

[Thuraash]

Woohoo! I can finally pull DCS back off the shelf.

[gavagai]

Stick shake is back and there is no input delay with the 1.2.7 beta, so that is good.

 

However, we're back to the fps drop. My fps maxes out at 45 after making some maneuvers, just as described in the OP of this thread. Time for a bug report.

[Nate--IRL--]

EDIT - moved to other thread.