F-18 grip, WARTHOG compatible

[hegykc]

If you're interested in how panel prototyping and the rest of the simpit is going, check out the P-51 thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170737

P-51 Engine control panel (with some engraving errors to fix)

 

Wow! Could you clarify a little? I was thinking of buying some desk mounts to make the warthog with extension more realistic, but wasn't sure if it would be the right height/depth. I might hold off to get yours if they are more adjustable.

 

It will be made out of aluminum extrusions and a couple of clamps. basically choose your own lengths so you can assemble the one you need.

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Edited July 21, 2016 by hegykc

[The Black Swan]

nice!!

[Goblin]

I'd be interested in that dampening system for my VKB Mamba MkIII with extension... In theory, this should work as well, looking at the setup posted above.

 

I'm with rrohde on this! Cool idea!

[hegykc]

Next week I have custom made springs coming in, a week after that I'll probably get the first anodized aluminum pieces and different type shocks.

 

In the meantime I did some more panel prototyping: P-51 front switch box

 

I think I might try the mfcd and cdu next week, I have all the lcd's and components ready.

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[The Black Swan]

Looking GREAT!

[JDarksword]

You bet your sweet pink scrawny ass I will be buying one of these and reviewing it!

Looks awesome!

 

Oh Holy Ralfi please bestow upon us thine holy review

Edited July 23, 2016 by JDarksword
Grammar

[some1]

I

No, just normal with regular springs. There is just no room for shocks when there's no extension, and they wouldn't provide much of an effect on such a small lever anyway. It still provides you with basically a new joystick. When that hard center and the ridiculous original spring mechanism is removed it's really something, smooth as butter!

 

What's the minimum length of an extension? I think you have a 10cm extension on the photo, will it work with 7 or 8 cm too?

[rrohde]

Yes. I'll be ordering one to see the bolt placements. Or you can measure it, warthog has 8 bolts in a 72mm diameter. Also what is the extension thickness?

 

Here's a drawing from the top of the VKB Mamba that might help. Going to look for a similar drawing for the extension's dimension.

[romeokilo]

 

I think I might try the mfcd and cdu next week, I have all the lcd's and components ready.

Save

 

Please tell me those are A10C MFCD's you are doing??!

 

Shut up and take my money!!!

[Scared Donut]

Please tell me those are A10C MFCD's you are doing??!

 

Shut up and take my money!!!

 

Shut up and take my life*

[hegykc]

Did a lot of gimbal/spring testing this week. Many things became apparent that were not obvious when designing. Like the size of the attachment holes for springs, making them squeak or not depending on the radius. The angle of springs, making them not effective or too effective, or just right. Springs jerking/twitching if attachment points are not just right, and increasing sticktion instead of eliminating it etc...

 

For such a simple part I was surprised by the amount of tweaks I had to do to get everything working just right. But the testing rig is now quiet, smooth and working as intended. That is, the one with just regular extension springs. The shock damper one, with compression springs, needs further tweaks, and I'm still waiting on some parts for those. But even the basic one with regular springs is so effective and super simple, both for me to manufacture and for you to install, that I wonder if anything more complicated/expensive will be needed, or if it can even be any better.

 

Next week I get to pick a few sets of final springs to be shipped with the unit, so you can choose the centering strength to your liking, and they should definitely be ready for sale in August. The regular spring version, for no-extension warthog, and one for extended warthog. I'll open a dedicated thread with final pictures and videos as soon as the springs arrive, and keep you updated on testing the shock damper version.

 

Regarding cdu and mfcd's, yes I'll start prototyping them first because they can be sold as standalone units, unlike the rest of the A-10 panels. Much of the testing is already being done with my P-51 panels, because it's all just setting up the machines to work with this type of material and finding out what works and what doesn't.

 

All of this will also be used to build my 3d printing farm. There is a big electrical control panel in each 3d printer, several of them. The chassis is made up in a same way I designed the left/right P-51 module mounts and joystick mounts, 3d printer covers are same bent/formed sheet material, same switches and buttons. So you can start to see how this is all connected, uses the same components and leads back to replacement grips. It's just that I tried to start form the top, with the fairly complex grips, but you can't build a house from the roof, gotta lay the ground work first.

[Nash]

Did a lot of gimbal/spring testing this week. Many things became apparent that were not obvious when designing. Like the size of the attachment holes for springs, making them squeak or not depending on the radius. The angle of springs, making them not effective or too effective, or just right. Springs jerking/twitching if attachment points are not just right, and increasing sticktion instead of eliminating it etc...

 

For such a simple part I was surprised by the amount of tweaks I had to do to get everything working just right. But the testing rig is now quiet, smooth and working as intended. That is, the one with just regular extension springs. The shock damper one, with compression springs, needs further tweaks, and I'm still waiting on some parts for those. But even the basic one with regular springs is so effective and super simple, both for me to manufacture and for you to install, that I wonder if anything more complicated/expensive will be needed, or if it can even be any better.

 

Next week I get to pick a few sets of final springs to be shipped with the unit, so you can choose the centering strength to your liking, and they should definitely be ready for sale in August. The regular spring version, for no-extension warthog, and one for extended warthog. I'll open a dedicated thread with final pictures and videos as soon as the springs arrive, and keep you updated on testing the shock damper version.

 

Regarding cdu and mfcd's, yes I'll start prototyping them first because they can be sold as standalone units, unlike the rest of the A-10 panels. Much of the testing is already being done with my P-51 panels, because it's all just setting up the machines to work with this type of material and finding out what works and what doesn't.

 

All of this will also be used to build my 3d printing farm. There is a big electrical control panel in each 3d printer, several of them. The chassis is made up in a same way I designed the left/right P-51 module mounts and joystick mounts, 3d printer covers are same bent/formed sheet material, same switches and buttons. So you can start to see how this is all connected, uses the same components and leads back to replacement grips. It's just that I tried to start form the top, with the fairly complex grips, but you can't build a house from the roof, gotta lay the ground work first.

 

And any progress on the head tracker ?

When will that be on sale ?:music_whistling:

[hegykc]

Immediately after August spring mod sales start, it's head tracker time. I am only squeezing in a panel or two with these spring mods because it's all laser cut.

 

With head tracker it's cnc machining, and so are the mfcd's and cdu's, so I'll squeeze in a few of those to go along, just for proof of concept. But priority is: Warthog spring mod, Head tracker, FC3 generic panel. Anything else I squeeze in, is just because I already have the CAD files done, and it's made on the same machine as the ones from priority list.

[hegykc]

P-51 and all other panels, and basicly everything I design is 1:1 scale, most of it is designed after a blueprint drawing. The whole P-51 cockpit is designed after NAA drawings.

 

Maybe it wasn't clear, but I designed the cockpits in 3 modules, left/right/front, and each one is a complete replica of that part of the cockpit. All the elements and all the placements. And all 3 modules are clamped to a desktop in 2 minutes (can't see that on the renders), plus a chair mounted, central stick. So it should be a pretty realistic setup:

 

 

Now, yes I do plan cockpit shells, but that's for the 1% of those that can afford it and even more important have enough room for it. These modules give you a complete cockpit experience, no hassle and no broken wallet. You can pretty much set them up in your office, and hang them on a wall when you're done, and they'll be something you'll display proudly not some toy joystick you have to hide when someone's coming.

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Edited July 28, 2016 by hegykc

[Nash]

Immediately after August spring mod sales start, it's head tracker time. I am only squeezing in a panel or two with these spring mods because it's all laser cut.

 

With head tracker it's cnc machining, and so are the mfcd's and cdu's, so I'll squeeze in a few of those to go along, just for proof of concept. But priority is: Warthog spring mod, Head tracker, FC3 generic panel. Anything else I squeeze in, is just because I already have the CAD files done, and it's made on the same machine as the ones from priority list.

 

Excellent ... have been waiting for them head trackers and gimbals like crazy ... :D

Keep up the excellent work ... :thumbup:

[cichlidfan]

Excellent ... have been waiting for them head trackers and gimbals like crazy ... :D

Keep up the excellent work ... :thumbup:

 

Agree about the head tracker, but I do wish he would stop calling that thing a gimbal because it isn't.

[Nash]

Agree about the head tracker, but I do wish he would stop calling that thing a gimbal because it isn't.

Yeah actually....

Maybe "Springbals"...

 

Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk

[Mtnbiker1998]

The warthog is generally considered a bad option for Helicopters, due to it's stiff spring and hard center detent. Been flying the huey more lately and while it's tolerable, it's certainly not ideal. How will your bolt on gimbal affect this? Better? Worse? More or less the same?

[hegykc]

Ok let's call it "Warthog spring mod". For anyone flying with a stock Warthog and no extension, it will be night and day difference. You'll be able to choose the centering strength you like but the hard mechanical center detent will be completely removed, and the two axis will be almost completely separated. That should give you a much better control and feedback from the stick.

 

For anyone flying with an extension, the change won't be so drastic, but still a major improvement, and your grip won't fall down under it's own weight.

 

I hope to send testing samples for evaluation next week, so you can hear what others think of it.

[Bearfoot]

the two axis will be almost completely separated

 

This interests me greatly!

 

But .... how?

 

As far as I understand, the underlying articulation is still a ball? Which means that if there is significant deflection on one axis, then movement in the other axis will still result in input on the other? Or will this be fixed by this modification?

[cichlidfan]

That's just not possible. The terrible plastic ball-joint will still exist. It will still use the single "3d" hall sensor. Mechanically there is still completely blended axes - mechanically. Your mod doesn't change that.

 

My thought as well, though I am still interested in the price point as it could still be a worthwhile purchase, even though I have been using a 12.5 cm extension for quite some time.

[hansangb]

For a few years, I used the spring mod to remove the main spring (in lieu of four smaller springs found at the bottom of the assembly). The link for it has been posted repeatedly.

 

I couldn't imagine flying the Huey w/o it, nor the A10. You're not constantly fighting the centering force. So while i don't use the TM for Huey anymore, I did order Milan's extension. And the extension allowed me to add the main spring back in. It feels very nice as I'm not fight the stick, nor is it flopping over.

 

I imagine hegykc's spring mod achieves similar effect. The ability to fly w/o light touch w/o it acting like a wet noodle!

[hegykc]

You are right, the internal mechanism remains original. But the way the grip feels is completely different now. The axis are separated in the way of how they feel, or give physical feedback to your hand.

 

On the original Warthog, if you pull right roll you have to put, let's say 2lb of force. Now if you add full pitch up along with the initial roll, this requires no extra force. This is not how a real aircraft stick operates, and for a reason too. You can constantly pull unwanted pitch with roll, or unwanted roll with pitch, or you're constantly over-correcting, because the axis feedback is not separated.

 

It doesn't matter what kind of mechanism is under the hood, or what type of hall sensor. But you absolutely need separate force loading for each of the axis, pitch and roll. Without that, any kind of precision flying is heavily hindered, or in my personal opinion, not possible.

 

This spring mod is not perfect, but it does introduce separate loading for each axis. Not 100% separate, but better then before. The horrible hard center is 100% removed.

Edited August 1, 2016 by hegykc

[Mtnbiker1998]

You are right, the internal mechanism remains original. But the way the grip feels is completely different now. The axis are separated in the way of how they feel, or give physical feedback to your hand.

 

On the original Warthog, if you pull right roll you have to put, let's say 2lb of force. Now if you add full pitch up along with the initial roll, this requires no extra force. This is not how a real aircraft stick operates, and for a reason too. You can constantly pull unwanted pitch with roll, or unwanted roll with pitch, or you're constantly over-correcting, because the axis feedback is not separated.

 

It doesn't matter what kind of mechanism is under the hood, or what type of hall sensor. But you absolutely need separate force loading for each of the axis, pitch and roll. Without that, any kind of precision flying is heavily hindered, or in my personal opinion, not possible.

 

This spring mod is not perfect, but it does introduce separate loading for each axis. Not 100% separate, but better then before. The horrible hard center is 100% removed.

 

Sounds super awesome. Now, it's August. When can we get our hands on them? :) :joystick:

[lokodehortaleza]

I've got a 10 cm extension waiting for this. Instant purchase as soon as released.