Yellow text in the Manual

[JesseJames38]

As i look thought the manual there are several sections inside of it marked with a Yellow highlighter stating that it is "not implemented in DCS:UH-1H" For these yellow text area. I am courious if this is something that is not and never will be implemented. Or is this just something that is not Implimented at the current time, but will be implemented at a latter time. As there are a few of these items i would like to see work. Such as the light filters for the Fire, Low Rotor, Master Caution. along with the one for the caution panel at the center pedistal.

 

So far i am finding alot of great info in the manual. quite a few of the buttons and knobs i reamber from our Army huey we had at school for run ups

 

Jesse.

[Sundowner.pl]

It actually confused me, because, should we consider the manual complete at this stage, and the final release will have what's in it, and nothing more ? Where's RWR, MLWS, ALQ-144, chaff/flares, other weapon systems, etc.?

 

And if not - then what's the point in bringing up radio altimeter, XM60 sight, and other things that will not be in the Beta ?

[Jagr]

It was already stated that everything is a work in progress including the manual.. they were asking for notification if people found errors so I think its a safe bet that this is NOT final.

 

That doe snot mean the "Not Implemented" issue is going to change. Those may be feature decisions they made during the development cycle.

[Sundowner.pl]

Don't you find a problem in that ? How can you tell what exactly you'll be paying for when buying the beta ? If everything is in state of flux, what's stopping anyone from scrapping everything someone may look for, in exchange for something else. Let's say weapons for C^2 gear (a bit extreme example).

 

I wish ED and their partners would stop with this "public beta" business model, and just release final products, it would spare us the confusion and risk management. I turned out good on not buying the A-10C in its beta stage, and rather bad when bought P-51 beta... not a good track record, and I do feel I'll regret buying the Huey at public beta release...

 

It would be probably an easier choice if the business model looked more like the Bohemia Interactive one - yes they are selling a product that is in Alpha stage... but at a half of the final release price. And I'm not getting here into the discussion of is the $49.99 a right price for this product, or not. But is asking for a full price, for a product that may be expected to dramatically change - the right business model to base on?

[wheels_up]

Where's RWR, MLWS, ALQ-144, chaff/flares, other weapon systems, etc.?

 

I assume you're joking, right?

[Sundowner.pl]

Why ? Have you seen what Spain, Italy, US DoS is putting on those birds ? It's not like we're flying over Mekong Delta. Is ED&Belsimtek expecting of us to fly in DCS:World in Huey only in Huey specific - low threat environment ? And it's not like I'm asking for something that was never utilized on this platform.

[Cedaway]

Don't you find a problem in that ? How can you tell what exactly you'll be paying for when buying the beta ? If everything is in state of flux, what's stopping anyone from scrapping everything someone may look for, in exchange for something else. Let's say weapons for C^2 gear (a bit extreme example).

 

I wish ED and their partners would stop with this "public beta" business model, and just release final products, it would spare us the confusion and risk management. I turned out good on not buying the A-10C in its beta stage, and rather bad when bought P-51 beta... not a good track record, and I do feel I'll regret buying the Huey at public beta release...

 

It would be probably an easier choice if the business model looked more like the Bohemia Interactive one - yes they are selling a product that is in Alpha stage... but at a half of the final release price. And I'm not getting here into the discussion of is the $49.99 a right price for this product, or not. But is asking for a full price, for a product that may be expected to dramatically change - the right business model to base on?

 

It's up to you not buying the beta if you prefer stand by the final release.

 

I think it's a good opportunity offered to everyone to discover and play with the product, even in beta stage. Also, the 'public beta testers' or the public who have purchased the final product in its beta stage may send comments or updates to the devs so they can correct/fix their module. (Like everyone would do after final release). It's kind of 'you can participate to the polishing of our product in buying at beta stage while playing with' thing.

When you pay 49.99$, it's for the product in itself, not just to participate in the beta (which would be a non sense). And I guess it should be a nightmare for the devs/commercials to have 'separate accounts' between 1/2 price beta + 1/2 price final for one, total price for another,... Certainly for the Digital Rights Managements and the licence keys.

I think non negligible part of us is happy in this way.

Again, no one forces you to buy the product in its beta stage. If you want to wait, so do.

[Cowboy10uk]

Why ? Have you seen what Spain, Italy, US DoS is putting on those birds ? It's not like we're flying over Mekong Delta. Is ED&Belsimtek expecting of us to fly in DCS:World in Huey only in Huey specific - low threat environment ? And it's not like I'm asking for something that was never utilized on this platform.

 

You are aware, the Huey being modelled is the H model right. We have known for a while that it is a Vietnam era helicopter, NOT a modern aircraft and as such dosnt have modern threat warning systems and weaponry. How you fly her is up to you, I would suggest low, fast and with decent backup if flying into a hot LZ. This is not an aircraft yo would want to go up against modern Tanks or anti aircraft in. Soft targets though are fair game.

 

I will admit that I am primarly going to be using this aircraft in utility guise rather than as a gunship. Despite that being the actual model we are getting.

 

As to asking them stopping the Beta versions, I certainly do not agree, I've purchased every single aircraft that has been released in beta, and have never regretted it once. Yes it's a beta, yes there will be bugs, you have to expect that. But not one of the aircraft have ever disappointed yet. Remember you are not paying for the beta, you are pre ordering the final aircraft. The access to the beta product is just a bonus. In real terms, the Huey isn't likely to be released for another 10 - 12 months or so. But while we are waiting, by pre ordering now we get to at least fly the beta version. Whether or not you want to though, is up to you. It's your choice and your choice alone, if you want to participate as a tester. Personally, I think it's a great business model, and one I was very very happy to see Arma follow, to a even greater degree by releasing an Alpha, which by all states is better than most betas and even some full releases.

 

If we see you flying in a Huey then great, if not then no problem you still have a KA50, A10 or P51 to enjoy. All that matters is our great hobby is taking another leap forward.

 

Cowboy10uk

[Sundowner.pl]

You are aware, the Huey being modelled is the H model right. We have known for a while that it is a Vietnam era helicopter, NOT a modern aircraft...

Curious, because Spain, Italy and US DoS, are flying the Hotel models with said equipment, that's for one. Two: black NVG-ready cockpit, and radio altimeter were not on the Vietnam-era machines, only on the ones retrofitted in the 80-s... with RWR, removable "disco ball" and countermeasures dispensers. There were also on the 1965-1975 no wire gourds on the windshield corners, and no wire cutters above and below the cockpit... also no RWR sensor mounts on the nose.

 

Therefore Belsimtek is not making Vietnam-era bird, but at least one of State-side, or Western Europe of late Cold War variant. :smilewink:

 

@Cedaway:

You're probably overestimating the input public can have on the product in the beta stage - it does have its place in network heavy titles, where you need large numbers of people to stress test the system (Hawken, Mechwarior Online, Tribes:Ascend, Planetside 2 and War Thunder are coming to mind). In DCS kind of simulations products - that's what core beta team is for, and it's usually more than enough - if the beta team consist of the right people it will over task the development team. Trust me, that's what I do in my free time.

[Cedaway]

You're maybe right. But I have faith in the public :)

BTW, if I can help the team in giving them fresh money during their extensive development time, why not? If I can help them in saying 'In my rig, that or that is not working, is it specific to my computer or is that a general bug?',... And after all, if I buy the beta then I can fly it and that's my main goal. Again, everyone is free to buy or not.

 

And I'm OK with the fact that Vietnam (era) theater would be a great plus when flying that bird (as well as the upcoming F-100 among all other of that era)

Edited April 15, 2013 by Cedaway

[Cowboy10uk]

Curious, because Spain, Italy and US DoS, are flying the Hotel models with said equipment, that's for one. Two: black NVG-ready cockpit, and radio altimeter were not on the Vietnam-era machines, only on the ones retrofitted in the 80-s... with RWR, removable "disco ball" and countermeasures dispensers. There were also on the 1965-1975 no wire gourds on the windshield corners, and no wire cutters above and below the cockpit... also no RWR sensor mounts on the nose.

 

Therefore Belsimtek is not making Vietnam-era bird, but at least one of State-side, or Western Europe of late Cold War variant. :smilewink:

 

In that case sir I stand corrected, :thumbup: Yes I can now understand why you're asking for those items. I was under the impression the the Hotel model only flew around the 60s / 70s and was then upgraded with a different prefix as it got more advanced. My mistake. Although it is still early days, so we may get the option to upgrade later on.

 

She's still gonna be bloody fun to fly though. :)

 

Cowboy10uk

[Suchacz]

^^^ Sundowner.pl, I wish your're right! :thumbup:

Edited April 15, 2013 by Suchacz

[Jagr]

Then simply do not buy it until the official release. Problem solved.

 

 

 

Don't you find a problem in that ? How can you tell what exactly you'll be paying for when buying the beta ? If everything is in state of flux, what's stopping anyone from scrapping everything someone may look for, in exchange for something else. Let's say weapons for C^2 gear (a bit extreme example).

 

I wish ED and their partners would stop with this "public beta" business model, and just release final products, it would spare us the confusion and risk management. I turned out good on not buying the A-10C in its beta stage, and rather bad when bought P-51 beta... not a good track record, and I do feel I'll regret buying the Huey at public beta release...

 

It would be probably an easier choice if the business model looked more like the Bohemia Interactive one - yes they are selling a product that is in Alpha stage... but at a half of the final release price. And I'm not getting here into the discussion of is the $49.99 a right price for this product, or not. But is asking for a full price, for a product that may be expected to dramatically change - the right business model to base on?

[159th_Viper]

Don't you find a problem in that ? How can you tell what exactly you'll be paying for when buying the beta ? If everything is in state of flux, what's stopping anyone from scrapping everything someone may look for, in exchange for something else. Let's say weapons for C^2 gear (a bit extreme example).

 

I wish ED and their partners would stop with this "public beta" business model, and just release final products, it would spare us the confusion and risk management. I turned out good on not buying the A-10C in its beta stage, and rather bad when bought P-51 beta... not a good track record, and I do feel I'll regret buying the Huey at public beta release...

 

It would be probably an easier choice if the business model looked more like the Bohemia Interactive one - yes they are selling a product that is in Alpha stage... but at a half of the final release price. And I'm not getting here into the discussion of is the $49.99 a right price for this product, or not. But is asking for a full price, for a product that may be expected to dramatically change - the right business model to base on?

 

This is a common mistake that seems to be made more frequently these days.

 

You are not buying the Beta

 

You are pre-ordering the final product.

 

Quite a simple distinction, really.

 

Access to the Open-Beta for those who wish to partake and point out bugs/issues etc etc. To date it has worked out bloody well for the rest of the modules I would have thought. Five hundred eyes will always be better than 50.

[PeroperoDokkiri]

This is a common mistake that seems to be made more frequently these days.

 

You are not buying the Beta

 

You are pre-ordering the final product.

 

Quite a simple distinction, really.

 

Access to the Open-Beta for those who wish to partake and point out bugs/issues etc etc. To date it has worked out bloody well for the rest of the modules I would have thought. Five hundred eyes will always be better than 50.

Like I said before- if so, it's really uncommon for the preorder to be more expensive than retail. For me it looks like we are paying extra for beta access actually. This is going to be my first module for DCS (it's great sim, but I am not into fixed wings aircrafts, and Black Shark also wasn't my thing). It is going to be a test- if this module won't deliver what I expect to get for 50$ (I don't care if the price goes down 40$ at retail- I payed 50$, that's it) this is going to be last module I buy for DCS for sure.

[Sundowner.pl]

Wait... there are 50 beta testers for DCS ? How can you do anything !? :P

 

I was under the impression the the Hotel model only flew around the 60s / 70s and was then upgraded with a different prefix as it got more advanced.

They (US DoD) got themselves into a corner because the Golf designation was given to the first Cobra, therefore not used for a Huey. Then there was a Foxtrot, which was a mashup between Bravo fuselage, Delta tail and transmission... and SeaKing engine. Plus a Foxtrot designation was also given to a Cobra, because why not ? And Huey designation continued then from Kilo, but those were also based on the short body model 204s - mostly based on UH-1C - so Kilo, Lima, Mike, November and Papa (which was an armed Foxtrot) with the exception of November (double engine Huey) and Victor (medevac version of the Hotel Huey).

So the last designation of single engine, long body Huey, was Hotel/Victor (I'm not counting Japanese Juliet... everything in Japan is Juliet :P ) even though the model 205 still was developed further which you can notice by the civilian model designations: 205A, 205A1, 214, 210 etc.

So even when the USAF bought few years ago, few single engine Hueys, made from scratch, with new technologies, they are still designated Hotel variants. Those designations are a MESS! :lol:

Plus the German variant made by Dornier are designated UH-1D, even though they were licence build UH-1Hs.

 

Then simply do not buy it until the official release. Problem solved.

Nope, as many people here: I'm a junkie :pilotfly:

[Vlerkies]

:wallbash:

 

Like I said before- if so, it's really uncommon for the preorder to be more expensive than retail. For me it looks like we are paying extra for beta access actually. .

 

You are not paying more for beta vs Final, the retail price of the actual product just went up, that is all.

:v:

[PeroperoDokkiri]

How can we talk about retail price going up if the game is not released yet? We are preordering, retail price is still unknown, isn't it?

[Newspeedy]

this thread is about Yellow text in the manual and again you guys are talking about the price!!! ...

 

go do your debat in http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104254

 

and back to topic

[Sundowner.pl]

1. The game was released, it's DCS: World, what is discussed is the price, of an expansion to it;

2. The price was confirmed to be $49.99 which is an increase over previous expansions: P-51, CA and FC3. Preeptively: A-10C was a stand-alone title, not an expansion.

[Silver_Dragon]

Please don't Hijack the topic....

[Stratos]

I would love a modern H variant as the ones Sundowner mentioned. At least we will have more chances of surviving in the Georgian scenario we have now.

[Sundowner.pl]

Now, for Cowboy10uk and few others interested in the evolution of UH-1H since the production date (1965), here's what I was writing about:

 

UH-1H in Vietnam:

 

Few things to look for - look at the nose, how "clean" it is, no bulges (mounts for RWR sensors), the frame around the windshield doesn't have rails, only few antennas, and no blades for cutting wires above or below the cockpit.

 

Now, a different UH-1H, photographed in West Germany mid 1980s:

Note full "Striela kit" - the exhaust duct, shielding plates on the engine sides, and a plate shielding oil cooler underneath the helicopter, where fuselage goes into the tailboom. There is also a visible blade for wire cutting above the cockpit, and you can almost make out the wire guard rail on the edge of front windshield edge.

 

This one is interesting:

Note that there is no wire strike protection kit on this bird, but already have nose bulges with RWR sensors mounted. And the one behind it have M56 racks for mines dispensers.

 

Now for ALQ-144 "Disco Ball":

Although not many were retrofitted to carry it - to my knowledge, only C^2 birds did, and those were soon replaced by H-60.

 

So the UH-1H is a 48 years long history, and still going. Countless combinations of equipment - that's why I want from Belsimtek to specify what exactly they plan to do, because some will not survive over Georgia against what's available in FC3 or CA. And some others might do ok in the right hands. And the yellow highlighted text in unfinished could-be-changed-entirely manual is not helping.

[Newspeedy]

will the wire strike protection kit work in dcs?

[Cowboy10uk]

:thumbup: Very impressive, Sundowner.pl, I can see exactly where you are coming from. The options the Huey have are just fantastic. While I appreciate Belsimtek, have to choose a set package to simulate, there is certainly a large potential for upgrades to this aircraft, either through DLC or Mods.

 

I think though what is stated as not implemented in the manual at the moment, will certainly change as we get closer to the final finish. The impression I'm getting, is we will be getting a fairly basic spec model. But there's nothing stopping them releasing more modern versions after on.

 

Although I agree the outside view does suggest that the aircraft has some more modern kit fitted that we havnt seen yet. ( sensors on nose )

 

Still really looking forward to this, and flying in the battlefield. Think it's just gonna take some very careful flying and survivability skills.

 

Cowboy10uk

Edited April 15, 2013 by Cowboy10uk