03 and 07 May 2013 Updates

[NRG-Vampire]

as i understand Matt: no DCS: Eagle and DCS: Flanker on the horizon

only more AFM for FC3 :(

[NineLine]

Ok, lets compromise... turn the C to and E on that F-15 :)

[GGTharos]

Don't start. There's plenty of stuff that we do, and plenty of stuff that we can miss because of a number of factors. We volunteer our time and we work hard.

 

If you want to keep launching admonitions, I will have some DCS UH-1's ferry you to forced tester camp, and then you'll really see. :P

 

Also, why isn't anyone responding to asks about SEAD missiles..... -.- EDIT: What is the point of testers when this kind of stuff gets released? With no explanation? To have flashy "Tester" tag on forum?!

[jp203000]

u are dead right .

[SkateZilla]

I doubt it will be, since FC3 did not fund that AFM.

As for distinct advantage, you deserve it if you can control an AFM plane. Many people will probably go stick-to-gut and flip out of the sky. Expect a lot of 'wtf this plane just stalls all over the place when I turn, it can't be real'.

 

 

 

It isn't scripted. It is, however, simple; as such it can't deal with all sorts of edge conditions that the AFM does.

 

(And really, what does scripted mean? In the end you could go as far as writing a CFD simulation to run your flight sim - because apparently everyone has a 100000 core computer in the future - but you could still call it scripted because you input a bunch of variables into a formula)

 

Well, I have a 16-Core Rig in the other room, I'm Getting closer to that 100,000 Mark.

 

Either way, I'll prolly get DCS:F-15C just for the AFM and to further fund ED's projects. while shooting the bird at ubi-soft :p :p :pilotfly:

 

I Only Fly the F-15C / SU-27 / A-10C in FC3 anyway.

[KaspeR32]

This is sad news indeed. First the P-51D is rushed out without finished engine modeling, and now our "DCS: Fighters" aren't DCS quality. I guess all these other side projects really did effect everything else.

 

Hey well at least we have DCS: A-10C and the Shark.. Looks like they'll have to last us a few more years after all.

 

Maybe ED will start making a console fighter game next, since console sales seem to be where it's at these days.

[Raven68]

Well, I have a 16-Core Rig in the other room, I'm Getting closer to that 100,000 Mark.

 

Either way, I'll prolly get DCS:F-15C just for the AFM and to further fund ED's projects. while shooting the bird at ubi-soft :p :p :pilotfly:

 

I Only Fly the F-15C / SU-27 / A-10C in FC3 anyway.

 

+1 Skates. I will say goodbye to the FC series when these puppies arrive. I will probably pass my license on to my nephew so I can reel him in to the wonderful world. His parents might hate me though. :)

[GGTharos]

So anyway, I'll share some knowledge/impressions with you all so that hopefully a few things are clear:

 

1. ED is a small dev company and they need to keep the cash flowing.

Since they're not funded up front by producers and they don't sell like Mass Effect/Dead Space etc, they can't just keep throwing free development at people. Things like AFM take time and thus cost money. If you want it, you have to fork out for it - I don't know how to sugar coat this.

 

2. The vast majority of ED's customers prefer less complexity.

That's right, you read that correctly. Most of ED's customers are more into FC type planes than they are into DCS level complexity. We call them casual players.

 

3. It is important to bring in new customers and make new sales.

So, this combines 1 and 2. I think it's self-explanatory, but basically it is important to have a product that offers more sales on say, Steam, Origin etc. A lot of people find DCS level too complex and time consuming.

 

4. A-10C level flight simulations are very time and money consuming.

While developing an A-10C level title, it's hard to develop other things at the same time. An A-10C level title can take three years and an undisclosed (much much higher than FC level) amount of money to finish. But it still has to sell at FC level prices. And keep in mind that the F-18 is already announced to be planned to come at the A-10C level. Bot the Flanker and Eagle also planned to be eventually brought up to that level as well.

 

5. ED is still into hi-fi simulations.

You've seen the various releases yourselves. But that doesn't mean that everything can be that way. You may not like some of ED's moves, but they need to do what they do.

 

6. My opinion: ED needs to leave Ubi behind.

And I won't go into 'Ubi is that' and 'Ubi is this' kind of stuff. This is just business - Ubi is probably costing ED sales with the requirement to install LO for FC.

 

7. ED throws stuff into their modules anyway.

Maybe many of you don't recall, but often ED has added features that were not previously announced to modules. For FC3, this was 3D pits for the A-10A, Su-27, as well as exterior models. The MiG-29 got 2TWS.

 

 

So, while I personally want an A-10C level F-15C, I can't complain a whole lot that it isn't here or it isn't coming fast enough. What's the point? Moaning about it won't make it happen. Look at the bright side: There are a lot of things in the pipeline. AFM for those two announced planes is already a big deal. Also, EDGE is in development ... also a big deal.

Edited May 7, 2013 by GGTharos

[YeaImRota]

What is the point of testers when this kind of stuff gets released? With no explanation? To have flashy "Tester" tag on forum?!

 

Testers are not developers.

[Kegetys]

So is the Su-27SM mentioned in one of the newsletters this FC-level AFM Su-27 or is that another (third party?) project? If its the same thing then I guess there will be at least some new avionics stuff for the mfd displays.

[GGTharos]

I think it'll still be the Su-27S. The Su-27SM would be a separate plane like the F-15E is a separate plane, and like an F-16C Block 40 is a different plane from an F-16C Block 60.

 

So is the Su-27SM mentioned in one of the newsletters this FC-level AFM Su-27 or is that another (third party?) project? If its the same thing then I guess there will be at least some new avionics stuff for the mfd displays.

[Pizzicato]

Maybe ED will start making a console fighter game next, since console sales seem to be where it's at these days.

 

Heh! Meanwhile, all of the console developers saying "maybe we should be making mobile games, since mobile games seems to be where it's at these days". ;)

[Witchking]

I agree though...the thought of being independent without Lock on and standalone as DCS WORLD is a good idea and financially sound for the future of ED. I just hope that they don't complicate and alienate the existing FC3 owners (us) by having like 2 different versions of Lockon/FC quality eagle and flankers. I think the idea we came up with....separate all FC aircraft with updates and throw away the Lock on name. Maybe keep flaming cliffs...so Flaming cliffs: Su-25/T, FC: Su27, FC: Su33, FC: Mig29S and FC: F-15C. That way they reserve some of the old brand name.

 

Does anyone know if ED has to pay royalties to ED from the sales of FC3? Or is it just a contractual obligation and Ubisoft are just content from any sales of Lock on alone?

[aaron886]

I actually really like this announcement. I hope you are able to find a good middle ground between DCS and FC3, ED! :)

[SkateZilla]

With an AFM done, I think the community can code the systems and use the existing cockpit animations/connectors and just compile a locked DLL that will only work with DCS:F-15C.

 

:p

[SkateZilla]

I agree though...the thought of being independent without Lock on and standalone as DCS WORLD is a good idea and financially sound for the future of ED. I just hope that they don't complicate and alienate the existing FC3 owners (us) by having like 2 different versions of Lockon/FC quality eagle and flankers. I think the idea we came up with....separate all FC aircraft with updates and throw away the Lock on name. Maybe keep flaming cliffs...so Flaming cliffs: Su-25/T, FC: Su27, FC: Su33, FC: Mig29S and FC: F-15C. That way they reserve some of the old brand name.

 

Does anyone know if ED has to pay royalties to ED from the sales of FC3? Or is it just a contractual obligation and Ubisoft are just content from any sales of Lock on alone?

 

I think Ubi Ownz both "Lock On" and "Flaming Cliffs" not just one or the other. (could be wrong though)

Edited May 7, 2013 by SkateZilla

[GGTharos]

I agree though...the thought of being independent without Lock on and standalone as DCS WORLD is a good idea and financially sound for the future of ED. I just hope that they don't complicate and alienate the existing FC3 owners (us) by having like 2 different versions of Lockon/FC quality eagle and flankers.

 

I don't think so. AFM will already set it apart, and those DCS modules will likely have their avionics upgraded. Their cockpits are ready for more complication, so to speak ... it just won't happen right now.

 

I think the idea we came up with....separate all FC aircraft with updates and throw away the Lock on name. Maybe keep flaming cliffs...so Flaming cliffs: Su-25/T, FC: Su27, FC: Su33, FC: Mig29S and FC: F-15C. That way they reserve some of the old brand name.

 

That is not exactly possible ... without going into it, I'll just say that to my understanding, there are contractual obligation issues.

 

Does anyone know if ED has to pay royalties to ED from the sales of FC3? Or is it just a contractual obligation and Ubisoft are just content from any sales of Lock on alone?

 

I would (make a somewhat educated) guess at the latter, but I don't really know. Hints: FC is an 'unofficial' addon to LO.

[NRG-Vampire]

With an AFM done, I think the community can code the systems and use the existing cockpit animations/connectors and just compile a locked DLL that will only work with DCS:F-15C.

 

:p

 

that's not easy Skate

and for me DCS: Eagle and Hornet are starting with hi-fi radars and not with hi-fi flight models

but i think these hi-fi radars wont happen in DCS - neve+ever :(

if U.S. defence not allowed to use the Sat system stuffs in DCS: Warthog they wont allow to simulate radars too :cry:

[KaspeR32]

Heh! Meanwhile, all of the console developers saying "maybe we should be making mobile games, since mobile games seems to be where it's at these days". ;)

 

Exactly! haha

 

And GGTharos, I do understand all the points you made. And I even agree with them. I guess I just hoped ED would be that niche company that still made High-Fidelity sims, over all other things.

 

And to be honest, I think ED could make their money with hi-fi stuff only, but they choose not to charge for it. It's like all things of quality. There are $15,000 Televisions; you don't see Samsung making 60" 3D 240Hz TVs for less than $600 do you? So now ED, since they aren't making what they could for the Hi-Fi sims, are allocating their limited resources elsewhere, and unfortunately for us, we can't go to another company to get "an expensive TV." We just have to wait.

 

ED could have charged $79.99 for the A-10C, I would have paid. As I'm sure a lot of the other hi-fi fans would have.

 

Anyway, just my two cents. Like some other people stated earlier, I don't have to buy the low-fi stuff, so it really is no loss for me. And since us, high-fidelity fans, are so few, it shouldn't hurt ED too much.

[NRG-Vampire]

Anyway, just my two cents. Like some other people stated earlier, I don't have to buy the low-fi stuff, so it really is no loss for me. And since us, high-fidelity fans, are so few, it shouldn't hurt ED too much.

 

i dont think thats the truth

FC(3) level is successful only coz no fast movers in DCS level, therefore "casual" players who need DCS: Flanker, Hornet, Tomcat, Eagle, Viper, Tornado, Phantom, Fulcrum etc. have no more choices - they will buy FC3

[GGTharos]

And GGTharos, I do understand all the points you made. And I even agree with them. I guess I just hoped ED would be that niche company that still made High-Fidelity sims, over all other things.

 

They do make Hi-Fi sims. Ka-50, A-10C, P-51. The F-18C is an upcoming hi-fi modules, while the F-15C and Su-27 will be further developed to a higher level eventually.

 

I think ED could make their money with hi-fi stuff only, but they choose not to charge for it. It's like all things of quality. There are $15,000 Televisions; you don't see Samsung making 60" 3D 240Hz TVs for less than $600 do you? So now ED, since they aren't making what they could for the Hi-Fi sims, are allocating their limited resources elsewhere, and unfortunately for us, we can't go to another company to get "an expensive TV." We just have to wait.

 

Sorry, but you're not correct. Since you did read my post (And thank you for that), I'll keep things short and just say that ED have done their market research, as well as gathered experience. No box or e-retailer would carry ED's product if it was over 49.99.

 

ED could have charged $79.99 for the A-10C, I would have paid. As I'm sure a lot of the other hi-fi fans would have.

 

I hate to put it this way, but they're not enough.

 

Anyway, just my two cents. Like some other people stated earlier, I don't have to buy the low-fi stuff, so it really is no loss for me. And since us, high-fidelity fans, are so few, it shouldn't hurt ED too much.

 

To put it bluntly, here you are correct. But as I said above, ED has and continues to develop high fidelity aircraft modules. That is still the goal, it just has to be executed carefully.

 

Essentially if you want HiFi modules, you have to accept that there will be work on medium fidelity modules. As a bonus, more people end up in the flight sim hobby since the barrier to entry is lowered.

 

I'll point out that there is a lot more to that $50 hifi module: You need a HOTAS, pedals, TIR, and other typically expensive accessories.

 

There needs to be an entry point where you don't need to pay so much for peripherals.

[GGTharos]

And you would be wrong. What sells more among people who like to fly attack/tank busting? FC3's A-10A or DCS: A-10C?

 

(Hint: FC is the correct answer).

 

i dont think thats the truth

FC(3) level is successful only coz no fast movers in DCS level, therefore "casual" players who need DCS: Flanker, Hornet, Tomcat, Eagle, Viper, Tornado, Phantom, Fulcrum etc. have no more choices - they will buy FC3

[SchniX]

The new F-15C and su-27 AFM will be available for those who bought FC3?

Thx

[SkateZilla]

that's not easy Skate

and for me DCS: Eagle and Hornet are starting with hi-fi radars and not with hi-fi flight models

but i think these hi-fi radars wont happen in DCS - neve+ever :(

if U.S. defence not allowed to use the Sat system stuffs in DCS: Warthog they wont allow to simulate radars too :cry:

 

Well, that's too true...

[GGTharos]

Simulating radars is a problem insofar as we don't know what various error rates are (ie. how likely and in what circumstances will you see a false target? How often?), as well as not knowing all their modes etc. It's possible to get some of that information of course, and there is plenty of literature and consultants to be consulted ... but, on the flip side, the more complex a part of the simulation is, the more difficult it becomes to implement as well.

 

that's not easy Skate

and for me DCS: Eagle and Hornet are starting with hi-fi radars and not with hi-fi flight models

but i think these hi-fi radars wont happen in DCS - neve+ever :(

if U.S. defence not allowed to use the Sat system stuffs in DCS: Warthog they wont allow to simulate radars too :cry: