little question

[NeF]

Hi there,

I would like to know if it's possible to lock two or more ground targets that are aligned to the flight path and release some LGB's or JDAMS on them in a single pass.

Thank you for your help.

Edited June 6, 2013 by NeF

[Nealius]

With JDAMs I use the TGP+laser to create markpoints, go down to the CDU and set the knobs appropriately (can't remember the setting) to select markpoints as steerpoints. Then on the pass I drop on the first steerpoint, switch to the next, drop again.

 

For LGBs I don't know.

[Robert1983NL]

I'd figure you can do that for LGB's as well, just time it with your laser.

[alanmc]

I think with JDAMs you can. From my experience, the current SPI is uploaded to the JDAM before it's released. If you are tracking a moving target, your bomb will splash at the point sampled at release time (ie it'll miss).

 

LGBs: You can only lase one target at a time. If you switch targets while the bomb is in freefall, it will attempt to change course to your current lase point (which makes these perfect for moving targets).

 

I suppose you could release two LGBs each tracking different laser frequencies - one lased by you, one buddy lased. Never tried it though.

[Robert1983NL]

Alanmc, why not just drop your LGB's x seconds apart, and when the first one impacts, lase the next target. It's pretty simple.

[Madone]

As you're a french native, there's a tutorial from Sonic131st :

 

Basically, just add your markpoints, switch the flight plan to Markpoint, and to drop the bomb just set your SPI to SPT and drop your bomb, switch to the other mkpoint, drop the bomb and so on.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1344603&postcount=2

 

I found the post from Viper, it's pretty easy to understand the concept! Have fun.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Madone

[alanmc]

Alanmc, why not just drop your LGB's x seconds apart, and when the first one impacts, lase the next target. It's pretty simple.

 

You could do this and if the targets were close it would probably be faultless. I'd worry about the second lgb having to make a dramatic course change at low(er) altitude if the second target is far from the first one.

[Evil.Bonsai]

Alanmc, why not just drop your LGB's x seconds apart, and when the first one impacts, lase the next target. It's pretty simple.

 

No, no it isn't. I've tried. Numerous times.

[Nealius]

For multiple stationary targets that will not move when engaged, stick with JDAMs and fuggidabout LGBs.

[ENO]

I suppose you could release two LGBs each tracking different laser frequencies - one lased by you, one buddy lased. Never tried it though.

 

That is definitely the more practical option. You'd need to learn to change the laser frequencies but that's easy enough to look up.

 

What I would like to see is half a dozen LGBs dropped on half a dozen lazed targets- It would take some time to setup I suppose but if all the targets were close to one another you should be able to ripple singles for whatever number and make it happen.

[Sn0w_Lynx]

Difficult with laser guided. You'd have to leave the laser on and be prepared to slew to next target after splash. They'd have to be pretty close together and you'd have to space your releases to compensate for re acquiring targets. Best bet is jams, mark, set steerpoint to marked targets, steer point as spi, release, next mark, release, etc. or cbu if they're real close

 

If the laser targets were too far apart the bombs would all be headed for the first target and would have enough time to line up on next target before splash

Edited June 6, 2013 by Sn0w_Lynx
Addition

[Robert1983NL]

No, no it isn't. I've tried. Numerous times.

 

You probably didnt do it right. Ill try it tonight. Theoretically it seems very possible. Targets dont have to be right next to eachother either, just use different laser codes and about 8-10 seconds of seperation.

[Darkwolf187]

You can indeed launch multiple LGB's and have them hit multiple targets, as long as you space them apart. This is realistic too, because that's exactly what pilots did in Kosovo and Iraq (AH-64 pilots did the same thing with Hellfires, apparently)

 

You have to drop from high up, on close targets, with little separation, since all the bombs you drop will all guide towards wherever the laser designation is going. So once the first strikes, you'll need to very quickly slew to the next target so the next LGB will hit that. If they are too far apart, the bomb won't be able to correct by enough.

 

But a couple of tanks in single-file would be plinkable like that.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Darkwolf187

[NeF]

Perfecto, thanks for the info lovely people.

[311Gryphon]

As you're a french native, there's a tutorial from Sonic131st :

 

Basically, just add your markpoints, switch the flight plan to Markpoint, and to drop the bomb just set your SPI to SPT and drop your bomb, switch to the other mkpoint, drop the bomb and so on.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1344603&postcount=2

 

I found the post from Viper, it's pretty easy to understand the concept! Have fun.

 

+1 on this. With your HUD as SOI it's pretty easy because once you set up all your mark points you just DMS forward short until you're on the first one. Then it's a matter of lining up and pickling JDAMs when you're in range, DMS forward short, pickle, DMS forward short, pickle, repeat until satisfied or out of JDAMs. The youtube tutorials are better to watch to get the idea though.

[Evil.Bonsai]

So, Darkwolf and Robert, exactly how many times have you done this that it is completely doable or not attempted correctly by me? Post a track or it didn't happen. I once thought the same way, but after attempting it found out how wrong I was.

[Darkwolf187]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUIdnPQZdWg

 

Give it a few minutes to finish uploading. Note, I did this with Active Pause, because I only got out of surgery yesterday, and I'm dosed up to the eyeballs with serious painkillers and as a result have very low attention bandwidth. Active Pause let me focus on walking the designator instead of flying the plane.

 

Basically, you want to drop the LGBs a few seconds apart (5-10 seconds), then hold down the NWS button and manually walk them across the targets.

 

Edit: Even added some annotations with timing. Note that LGBs almost always arrive late, because of how their guidance works (bang-bang guidance causes them to scribe a path through the air that's longer than the pure ballistic path they would take if they were dumb).

Edited June 8, 2013 by Darkwolf187

[Evil.Bonsai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUIdnPQZdWg

 

Give it a few minutes to finish uploading. Note, I did this with Active Pause, because I only got out of surgery yesterday, and I'm dosed up to the eyeballs with serious painkillers and as a result have very low attention bandwidth. Active Pause let me focus on walking the designator instead of flying the plane.

 

Basically, you want to drop the LGBs a few seconds apart (5-10 seconds), then hold down the NWS button and manually walk them across the targets.

 

Edit: Even added some annotations with timing. Note that LGBs almost always arrive late, because of how their guidance works (bang-bang guidance causes them to scribe a path through the air that's longer than the pure ballistic path they would take if they were dumb).

 

Active Pause doesn't count. Without the plane moving, you could probably drop all of your bombs and lase separate targets. Doesn't work with plane actually flying. The problem being you will over-fly your target, and bombs don't fall backwards.

[NeF]

Hehe darkwolf, good try but ... :D

[Darkwolf187]

Active Pause doesn't count. Without the plane moving, you could probably drop all of your bombs and lase separate targets. Doesn't work with plane actually flying. The problem being you will over-fly your target, and bombs don't fall backwards.

 

EDIT: Went and did it again, so I hope this one meets with your approval. You come nowhere near overflying your target at drop unless you're low.

 

 

No active pause. Just dropping two LGBs and walking them onto their targets. Note that this is actually pretty freakin' hard, but the trick is to use CCRP in ballistic mode to give you a countdown for when to do a blind CCIP drop. You then drop two LGBs 10 seconds or so apart. Don't lase until ~10 seconds before first impact, otherwise the bang-bang guidance on the LGBs will throw them miles off course.

 

At T-10 seconds, start lasing. At first hit, QUICKLY slew to the next target and lase again. Done.

 

Apologies for the scrappy flying, I'm on major painkillers after having surgery yesterday.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Darkwolf187

[NeF]

good job, intresting.

[Evil.Bonsai]

Very nice. Issue I had previously was dropping them 5-10s apart, but when the first hig, I'd only have a few seconds until the 2nd hit. I had some armor placed on that X, a little farther apart than yours. I'd get partway to next target and 2nd would hit.

 

Thinking physics, the first bomb drops slightly slower, since it glides over a longer path. The 2nd one is falling more steeply, so I think it falls a little faster. So even though you release a certain time apart, with the first slowing down and the 2nd speeding up, the actual time between impacts is a bit shorter than the time between release. That and your 2nd bomb tracks the same target as the first, and then a few seconds to impact starts to veer towards 2nd as you move your laser.

[311Gryphon]

Very nice. Issue I had previously was dropping them 5-10s apart, but when the first hig, I'd only have a few seconds until the 2nd hit. I had some armor placed on that X, a little farther apart than yours. I'd get partway to next target and 2nd would hit.

 

Thinking physics, the first bomb drops slightly slower, since it glides over a longer path. The 2nd one is falling more steeply, so I think it falls a little faster. So even though you release a certain time apart, with the first slowing down and the 2nd speeding up, the actual time between impacts is a bit shorter than the time between release. That and your 2nd bomb tracks the same target as the first, and then a few seconds to impact starts to veer towards 2nd as you move your laser.

 

I don't have any experience with this but I think you are right on. I've seen someone (in game not in real life) drop 4 JDAMs a few seconds apart as they flew over a target area and hit four different targets almost simultaneously. I suspect it is due to exactly what you're stating about the slant range from bomb to target at weapon release. The first bomb has a longer distance to travel. But there are a lot of variables involved as well.