what to expect from Su-27 module?

[Esac_mirmidon]

LOL ¡¡

 

I can´t rep you more Pilotasso XDDDD.

[johnv2pt0]

I would say mirmidon have thicker skin than you. since he provided references to all his beliefs in a Su-27 thread, where you started to tell people that F-15 have even better features whit no ducumentation behind it, or logic for that matter:) I told you to start F-15 thread where you could discuss F-15C wishes. No need to jump on people because they believe in something you don't. You might get bitten back by the victim:doh:

 

It might behoove you to actually read who is writing what. You've mistaken me for someone else.

[SkateZilla]

Wow and they say they are making DCS World real as real as it gets ! when a Su-27 can't do a cobra in DCS WORLD and listening from developers like ED that the cobra maneuver is just for airshows and had no advantage CAC is just for me is crap of BULL SHIT !.

 

Where does it say Developer Next to my Screenname?

 

 

I'm Spooling back through this thread, about to clean the off topic stuff out (the cobra arguing is debatable).

 

 

if the Flight model is done to any kind of realistic Level, and the user has the ability to Toggle AoA limiter, it theoretically should be possible to do it.

Edited August 12, 2013 by SkateZilla

[FlankerNation]

It has nothing to do with it being easier, and everything to do with there being data for a hi-fi sim. Su-27SM is classified since it is still in service and AFAIK there's not even an export manual available. It could be done as an FC3 level module with AFM, but right now, I really doubt that anyone has the information to make a DCS quality module out of it. I could always be wrong of course.

 

WOW CG WOW ! BRAVO !

 

This is the type of answer we or I was looking for and it about time.

 

For me as a Flanker this I want to hear and you have said it right in a respective way that flankers fans can understand that Su-27sm is still now classified but on the other hand your saying you could be wrong which for me is good news ! :) because for me as a flanker fan is a very big hope or a chance to see a multi role Flanker in DCS World in the future.

 

But I remembered that famous video from ED called "DCS World Overview" and Su-27SM was mentioned along with F-18E super hornet. So, as a sign of HOPE that the Flanker is not abandoned.

 

I hope so.

[FlankerNation]

aaannnnnd I forget to mention the Cobra maneuver...yes don't abandon that one also in Flanker.... its a part of it. :D

[FlankerNation]

ED is showing appreciation of Flanker

 

They have new update and ED is showing there appreciation that they still love this plane by making a cover photo of the new update of DCS 1.2.5 on facebook..

 

here is the link:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=462365427194723&set=a.324545064310094.68956.312196962211571&type=1&theater

[FlankerNation]

Sorry its is update 3 of version 1.2.5... and they made nice Flanker Cover photo for it .

[SkateZilla]

Sorry its is update 3 of version 1.2.5... and they made nice Flanker Cover photo for it .

 

That's the default DCSW On Steam Graphic aint it?

[Teknetinium]

Still waiting for your prove on F-15 datalink lunaticfringe. Make another thread and tell me how many squads have it and witch, how does it operate, would be good to have a manual or any legit document.

 

I jumped in because I saw you talk about how good F-15 is in Su-27 thread. So I told you the biggest difference from stock models that you refuse to accept. Go and search on the net then, or ask someone who has more knowledge than me if you don't believe me. GG saying F-15C has it as standard, from which documentation, from what year? As i understand we were comparing stock models of Su-27S and F-15C. No updates there between that was made in 2005-2013. By then there were other aircraft flying that could take upon any version of F-15.

 

Would be interesting to know as well where to find the AoA limiter and how f15 handle without it, As I understand, The limits are not in high AoA rather than maintaining control after the maneuver. Its about aerodynamics that can handle airflow that occurs in such high AoA conditions. Draken could make cobras as well. Here is a video of it in demonstration. But it was not as controllable as on Su-27 which forced the pilots only execute such maneuvers at safe altitudes. My belief is that biggest obstacles are the engines and airframe structure.

Watch from 1:50, at 2.12 I believe the pilot loses control over the aircraft.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Teknetinium

[FlankerNation]

Flanker forever !

 

 

 

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XGZ7EXSKi_U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

[FlankerNation]

That's the default DCSW On Steam Graphic aint it?

 

Not sure of that I m not using Steam just saw it on their facebook page.

[Rotorhead]

I agree with you pal... I m sorry to say but you really have to make an effort to play with flanker in multiplayer which is a bit frustrating for us Flanker fans.

 

Every ones knows the capabilities of this jet.

 

Really what I expect from Su-27 module addition to the current features that this jet have in FC3 is :

 

1. Cobra move (a must have which is signature to this awesome plane which also have advantage in close dogfight )

2. In-flight Refueling ( like in the old days flanker dos version)

3. Sead strike capability ( like in the old days flanker dos version)

4. Anti-ships strike capability ( like in the old days flanker dos version)

5. Pinpoint Strike capabilities ( like in the old days flanker dos version)

 

If you see and learn from the first version of Flanker till now ED is downgrading the jet in its simulation instead of improving it ?

 

Please ED I hope you understand what the fans want ? the flankers fans I mean. But it seems that ED is more interested making Western fans happy.

 

As already said, the old Flanker variants don't have AAR or advanced A/G capabilities, it's the new ones that do. Although I'd love to have one of this more advanced Flankers modeled to full DCS glory!

 

I do agree on the cobra though. As you mention, it's Su-27 signature maneuver and it's a sort of must have for me. You don't have Flanker if you don't have Cobra! :joystick:

 

And about the Eastern vs. Western stuff. I was concerned about the same thing too, but now, we are (hopefully soon) getting Mi-8 and MiG-21 from 3rd party devs. L-39 is in development as well and Beczl plans his next plane to be a Mig-23 IIRC. Although with simple avionics (boring :ermm:), Su-27, 25 and 25T will all at least have AFM and 6DOF cockpits in due time. And ED says that a full-DCS Flanker is planned at some point in the future.

 

So I think it's not that bad time to be an Eastern planes fan. :)

[boquinauer]

Personally I doubt that ED can achieve the development of a DCS Su27SM since there is not much info about it. It's still a brand new classified aircraft so I really don't know how are they planning to get all the details for an accurately simulated DCS module.

 

I would aim for the Su27SK if they want to get a high quality sim. Sorry for those who expect a multirole fighter. But the Su27 was initially designed as "air superiority" platform with limited air to ground capabilities. There is no such multi role in the Russian VVS. Organization and tactics of the Russian air force itself it's completely different than the western ones. Especially having in mind that the Su27's are set in the PVO (The National Air Defense) which is another group of the "Russian Airforces" and it's role it's simple. Air defense from enemy airplanes and/or missiles. In Russia's air forces each airplane is designed for a unique task. And so is the Su27S.

 

Regarding the chances to disconnect or not the AoA limiter by the pilot in a 7 G's pull, well, it's there. The engineers have designed the airplane with such posibility, like many other fly by wire airplanes where you can override the flight computers. Another thing is the proper Air Force's policy. I agree that it would be difficult to move your hand to the switch in a 7G pull, but I think it's possible and you don't have to wait to the 7G pull to turn it off.

 

Cheers.

Edited August 13, 2013 by boquinauer

[pepin1234]

I would aim for the Su27SK if they want to get a high quality sim. Sorry for those who expect a multirole fighter. But the Su27 was initially designed as "air superiority" platform with limited air to ground capabilities. There is no such multi role in the Russian VVS. Organization and tactics of the Russian air force itself it's completely different than the western ones. Especially having in mind that the Su27's are set in the PVO (The National Air Defense) which is another group of the "Russian Airforces" and it's role it's simple. Air defense from enemy airplanes and/or missiles. In Russia's air forces each airplane is designed for a unique task. And so is the Su27S.

 

You wrong. The extensive precisions weapons for a multirole started at 1985, from these years the Soviets have started to deploy new proyects for a real precision weapons multirole, but after that time a lot of new proyects were canceled. For sure the Su-27S and Mig-29S could have presicion weapons on time, just they had not chance to do it.

 

Before this time every Soviet fighters ( exept the interceptors ) have a remarkable ground attack capability.

 

What you mean, when the presicions weapons were extensively added for the fighters, Russia was in bankrupt so they have not chance to take the same direction.

 

just wait for the Mig-21Bis module and you will see how deadly could be.

 

Right now is diferent... they have multirole with presicion weapons too

Edited August 13, 2013 by pepin1234

[pepin1234]

This is what HDTWS is for.

 

This is a F-15 datalink thread or a Su-27 thread? The Problem have started some page before...

Edited August 13, 2013 by pepin1234

[GGTharos]

It's not a Su-27 thread. It's a Su-27 module thread, and right now, I can tell you you can expect FC3 level avionics and AFM for the Su-27.

 

For the DCS Su-27S, you can expect the addition of more accurately modeled avionics. That's it.

[Esac_mirmidon]

I would aim for the Su27SK if they want to get a high quality sim. Sorry for those who expect a multirole fighter. But the Su27 was initially designed as "air superiority" platform with limited air to ground capabilities. There is no such multi role in the Russian VVS. Organization and tactics of the Russian air force itself it's completely different than the western ones. Especially having in mind that the Su27's are set in the PVO (The National Air Defense) which is another group of the "Russian Airforces" and it's role it's simple. Air defense from enemy airplanes and/or missiles. In Russia's air forces each airplane is designed for a unique task. And so is the Su27S.

 

This pic is from the 80´s and early 90´s RuAF.

 

Now Russian Air Force is very different. PVO Stranny don´t exist anymore as a separate branche of the RuAF. Now there is only the VVS and all PVO regiments are included in a general Air Force structure.

 

The remainings of the Interceptor Air Superiority Force only dedicated fighters are very few, like Mig-31. Russia is changing a lot his Air Force to a more modern truly multirole force, not so dependant from GCi and ground control, more capable and flexible, very near to OTAN standars.

 

The Mig-21, Mig-23, Mig-29 and Su-27 air superiority days are over. Now RuAF has real mutirole fighters like the Su-35S and Mig29K/M Mig-35. And the next PAK-FA in the near future.

 

The same with air to ground force, replacing Mig-27 Su-24 Su-25 with much more capable Su-34 and the projected PAK-DA.

 

For me a DCS Su-27 module at the same level as A-10C would be more than enough. Obviously a SM is much more capable but the Su-27S is so iconic and has so much interesting points in handling, agility, management, FBW, CDU, that having it in the next two years would make me very happy.

[GGTharos]

I'm pretty sure that if ED could, they would do 27SM. I really doubt they can get reliable info for it.

 

For me a DCS Su-27 module at the same level as A-10C would be more than enough. Obviously a SM is much more capable but the Su-27S is so iconic and has so much interesting points in handling, agility, management, FBW, CDU, that having it in the next two years would make me very happy.

[smnwrx]

I'm intersted to see how air refueling works out with the new AFM really.

[GGTharos]

There is no air refueling on the Su-27S AFAIK.

[pepin1234]

for the market, one Su-27SM FC3 style is ok. I am sure this module will have the same succes of the Su-25T

[Grim_Smiles]

For me a DCS Su-27 module at the same level as A-10C would be more than enough. Obviously a SM is much more capable but the Su-27S is so iconic and has so much interesting points in handling, agility, management, FBW, CDU, that having it in the next two years would make me very happy.

 

At this point for me any Flanker with full A-10C level would make me happy.

 

 

 

Just a few general questions:

 

I believe it has been mentioned that Su-27S does not have ability to use anti-ship missiles, A2G missiles and ARMs correct?

 

I believe I had read that there are updated Su-33's in service that have systems allowing SEAD, anti-ship missiles and ability to use R-77. Is this information correct? If so would the possibility exist to model this Su-33 in DCS with A-10C level fidelity?

[GGTharos]

I believe it has been mentioned that Su-27S does not have ability to use anti-ship missiles, A2G missiles and ARMs correct?

 

Correct. Nor can it use R-77's.

 

I believe I had read that there are updated Su-33's in service that have systems allowing SEAD, anti-ship missiles and ability to use R-77. Is this information correct? If so would the possibility exist to model this Su-33 in DCS with A-10C level fidelity?

 

There have been at least two such Su-33 upgrades proposed. I know the first one was never funded, yet it is the basis of all the internet sites that list all sort of cool kit being onboard the Su-33.

A much more recent upgrade proposal may or may not have been funded, I don't know - but the 33 is on its way out anyway.

 

And no, there is no possibility to model an upgraded Su-33 to A-10C level fidelity or even close, as far as I know.

[GGTharos]

Y'all need to stop now.

[Grim_Smiles]

Correct. Nor can it use R-77's.

 

 

 

There have been at least two such Su-33 upgrades proposed. I know the first one was never funded, yet it is the basis of all the internet sites that list all sort of cool kit being onboard the Su-33.

A much more recent upgrade proposal may or may not have been funded, I don't know - but the 33 is on its way out anyway.

 

And no, there is no possibility to model an upgraded Su-33 to A-10C level fidelity or even close, as far as I know.

 

Thanks for the info GG. While I'm dismayed to see the 33 go, I am not surprised. 29K already does what they want to upgrade the 33 to do, and the 29K doesn't take up as much deck real estate. While a MiG-29K DCS module would be great, I'm sure we have the same issue as you mentioned for the 27SM (in not knowing how the avionics display information to the pilot).

 

So Su-27S it is.