Business model behind this project?

[Luzifer]

but there is enough vagueness in the wording of the current kickstarter to give the 3 planes to all current backers (even the 1$, 10$ and 20$ ones) and make it "free" to all kickstart supporters (as luthier recently clarified), but not make all 3 planes for free to "outsiders" upon release time and give them nly one less important plane (the kickstarter wording is not a binding business commitment to prospective future customers in september 2014, the "content description of the project" is aimed solely towards the kickstart supporters only). that would be a workable compromise imho.

 

But that is not what luthier wants to do. Making a freely available solid base game with a Normandy map and several full featured planes with it is the goal of the project, and the Kickstarter campaign is there to collect funds for that vision.

 

I agree that the pledge rewards are rather lacklustre, but hobbling the project to make Kickstarter backers feel special would be a serious case of the tail wagging the dog. The project isn't there to make the Kickstarter campaign attractive, the Kickstarter campaign is there to fund the project.

[Mogster]

Really $60K in the first week isn't bad. A bit of TLC and this could still takeoff. The ride in the B17 sounds like a great talking point. I wonder if that's doable?

[westr]

The B-17 in not owned by the fighter collection unfortunately.

[*Rage*]

I definitely plan on pledging...I'd just love to know what will happen when I presume ED will release the Dora? Will I have to buy it again just to fly it sooner? I already own the P51. Even if thats the case I will consider my $50 dollar pledge a donation in order to get the Spit/109. I just would like some clarification on this point...

[Mogster]

The B-17 in not owned by the fighter collection unfortunately.

 

Yeah but it is on site at Duxford. It appears to be owned by a charitable trust, maybe they'd be interested in getting involved with DCS WW2? Open to a few ££££ as persuasion?

 

The Fighter collection do own a two seat P51 and Sea Fury though....

Edited September 12, 2013 by Mogster

[sylkhan]

Will I have to buy it again just to fly it sooner?

yes

[*Rage*]

Fair enough...$50 is tremendous value for 3 planes. Even if non pledgers get them for free!

[VH-Rock]

For me, backing this project isn't about what I get in return - I backed it because I want to see it get made. To be quite honest, I couldn't care less if some people will get the aircraft for free later on.

[hegykc]

For me, backing this project isn't about what I get in return - I backed it because I want to see it get made. To be quite honest, I couldn't care less if some people will get the aircraft for free later on.

 

We're not complaining because people will get it for free and we had to pay for it.

 

We're complaining because of all those lost pledges. Had it not been totally free, we could have hit some of the stretch goals.

[SkateZilla]

doesn't backing at the $40+ amount get you 5 planes? lol

[hegykc]

It would be a dream come true if they only announced ONE.

 

Just don't make it free, and then ask for a money raising campaign.

[Geronimo989]

You guys should really add something inbetween the 100k and 375k goal, or you will face massive withdrawal of pledges if it gets to like 200k

[jawzzy]

Looks like they made some nice changes to the pledges. There are a lot more options now.....Or was it there from the start?

 

I just changed my stock 100+shipping option to the 110+shiping option, as this one gives you the DCS Dora from the moment DCS releases the beta and also DCS WW2 Alpha access. With this one I don't have to buy the Dora from DCS at release and then get a second copy a year later.

 

I'm good now. :) This one makes more sense for me.

 

Go have a look around, you may find something that's more attractive to you and maybe help out raise more money in the process.

Edited September 12, 2013 by jawzzy

[cichlidfan]

In some ways it is even more confusing now.

 

Apparently I will have some extra things to give away, or I get to read the code as the devs type it...I am sure it is one or the other. :P

[NineLine]

I upped myself from 40 to 60 (or 72 being outside the US)... I like some of the changes for sure...

[jawzzy]

In some ways it is even more confusing now.

 

Apparently I will have some extra things to give away, or I get to read the code as the devs type it...I am sure it is one or the other. :P

 

I like that people have a lot more options now. For me getting the Dora at release is quite a big plus. This way I don't have to buy it from DCS at release and then get another copy of it when DCS WW2 is released.

Alpha doesn't scare me much. I got as bunch of games in Alpha stage and I had tons of fun.

[cichlidfan]

I agree that the new options are a good thing, but if you have already pledged at one of the higher levels then it is a tiny bit confusing to sort out what your 'perks' are It will be fine however it works out anyway.

[jawzzy]

I agree that the new options are a good thing, but if you have already pledged at one of the higher levels then it is a tiny bit confusing to sort out what your 'perks' are It will be fine however it works out anyway.

 

 

Check the new update just posted by Ilya:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts

 

 

 

This image should make things a lot more clear:

 

[cichlidfan]

Check the new update just posted by Ilya:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts

 

 

 

This image should make things a lot more clear:

 

 

Thanks. Found that in my email right after I posted.

[lunaticfringe]

Yeah, they had me interested right up the part they said Oleg was going to be the quality control.

 

Nope. Not going to have to watch people bang their heads against that brick wall again. I'd rather bet on Iris putting together something realistic.

[Royraiden]

Yeah, they had me interested right up the part they said Oleg was going to be the quality control.

 

Nope. Not going to have to watch people bang their heads against that brick wall again. I'd rather bet on Iris putting together something realistic.

 

Quality control is on ED.I cant believe how ungrateful some folks are and how quickly they forget everything:no_sad:

[NineLine]

Yeah, they had me interested right up the part they said Oleg was going to be the quality control.

 

Nope. Not going to have to watch people bang their heads against that brick wall again. I'd rather bet on Iris putting together something realistic.

 

 

If you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all...

[lunaticfringe]

Quality control is on ED.I cant believe how ungrateful some folks are and how quickly they forget everything:no_sad:

 

Per the Kickstarter:

 

"Oleg will act as the ultimate quality control on the game, ensuring it meets the highest possible standards of both historical accuracy and playability."

 

Ungrateful? I didn't ask for WWII in DCS- it was offered. I looked at the product offering with interest, and have realigned my interest according to new data.

 

Being "ungrateful" is getting something you didn't expect, *partaking in it*, then complaining that it wasn't good enough. In this case, my interest is rendered minimal based on the presentation to the point that I'm not concerned with partaking in it based on the advertisement.

 

Now, as to what ungrateful *is*, there's a bunch of complaining in this thread about the very idea- people getting something for free, developed on the backs of the prospective investments made by the Kickstarter backers. People not anteing' up, then proceeding to moan when they download the free aircraft- those individuals will be ungrateful.

 

If you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all...

 

I did- I stated that I *was* interested, right up to the part they acknowledged Maddox' involvement as QC. That is nice- qualified with a detraction. I could have just said it was unmitigated crap, or glommed on with the "pay/free" argument commencing here, but I targeted a specific reason that, if you recall your IL-2 history, was the source of most every division of that community- the designer, and his claims toward realism.

 

The penultimate example is what he did with the M2 Brownings of the Mustang in IL-2, amounting to the very definition of the sort of gimping that permeates most conversations pertaining to missiles on this forum. Now, ED has the justification of designing a physics model and working through the iterations of boost impulse, duration, drag, intercept logic, and control surface impact, and are building it up to snuff on an incremental basis, so complaints of gimping, while made with loud volume, are intellectually mute.

 

Oleg Maddox no longer maintains that level of credibility. When the model of the P-51's dispersion was proven to be broken, in the face of all evidence, Maddox fixed the dispersion, while cutting the effective rate of fire to a mere fraction, making the weapon just as useless as before, and all because *he* didn't feel that the M2 sextet of the Mustang was an effective weapon.

 

In the face of all historical evidence, he not only chose to break a system, when confronted with the evidence of foul play he, in effect, insulted the intelligence of the community as a whole with his shenanigans.

 

All in all I think the whole comment, as it were, is something nice- the community doesn't need to be screwed over again by a guy who's ego makes him feel that bending the laws of physics to suit his MO is acceptable. ED can't grow their missiles incrementally across the board without people threatening to jump off bridges- imagine how this plays out the first time someone catches wind of Maddox unjustifiably cooking the data files.

 

Seriously- do you want to see *those* arguments play out? How do you think that would look on ED, since people mistakenly expect them to act as ultimate QC in this now-open ecosystem?

 

RRG is welcome to offer me a product, and to take my money. Being the consumer, I also have the right to draw a line in the sand as to what I choose to buy. Maddox is that line. There are as many people willing to not buy a product with his name attached to it as there are willing to ante up, and that's just as much of a detraction to the Kickstarter (and development) of this offering as the "free plane" bickering.

 

And that, frankly, is a fact worth being noted, whether you think it's "nice" or not. The truth isn't always nice, but it's always justified.

[NineLine]

 

And that, frankly, is a fact worth being noted, whether you think it's "nice" or not. The truth isn't always nice, but it's always justified.

 

We hear the "facts" over and over, all I am saying is we dont need to hear them anymore. If you want to live in the past thats fine, but these forums are about the future. I am sorry to hear about your distress about the M2 browning.... if you feel this will happen again, they you dont need to pledge. I am fairly confident that ED will inspire them for great things. I am looking forward to the project.

 

So I will stick with my current statement, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all, when DCS WWII is released, and the M2 browning isnt up to expectations, ED has always been open about discussing such issues.

 

I dont want to be the guy that deletes those posts, but if we keep going on about this person is going to do this based on this event in the past, then I will for the sake of keeping these threads on track, I hope you understand.

[lunaticfringe]

You'll have to excuse me then for not operating under the apparent presumption that each member of the forum who wishes to insert commentary on a topic of conversation must review every previous thread in the sub-forum to make sure that their point of view hasn't previously been discussed voluminously prior.

 

I am sorry to hear about your distress about the M2 browning.... if you feel this will happen again, they you dont need to pledge.

 

Actually, that was the beauty of it- from the point the shenanigans were caught, witnessing the blowup, all the assorted IL-2 came off the hard drive. Haven't revisited one of his associated products since. At the point when someone is caught red handed, everything is left to question, and that's not worth being distressed over.

 

I mean, really- consider how badly Kinney was blown up recently. Accusations going into his service records, and yet he'd never out and out insulted the community to a degree as mentioned. And for what it's worth, I didn't bet on that Kickstarter, either- unless he *really* wants to sit down with aerodynamic engineers/physicists and generate the type of raw numbers required to truly make the F-35 believable (and it could be done, but would have likely cost more than half of his initial project target in billable hours), it's not worth it to me.

 

Now, noticing the sub-forum for the first time, and reading the original premise (that it was the outliers from Maddox games doing the work), I took a little more time to review what was going on. And it was looking worth a watch. But now, for me, it's not.

 

So for your sanity, I'll stay out of the sub-forum. :D