some misinformation going on at simhq

[leafer]

Thanks, Evil! No wonder I couldn't find, TO-roll. I searched sync real mustang ect. Everything but to-roll. :P

 

westr,

 

Just didn't want DCS to get bad rep for no good reason. You know how flight simmer scoffs at anything unrealistic. I am in no way saying they had bad intention. I think they just didn't spend enough time with the sim.

[lesnyborsuk]

Maybe good idea would be to stress the need for proper curve settings somewhere in DCS? Maybe in some training lesson or some other way? I remember that it took me some time until I have discovered how this changes everything. And really, it was an "eureka" for me.

 

Or use some curves as default? I think that computer sims can't be "as real as it can get" in 100%. Some compromises must be taken. In example- if you would sim in 100% realistic air movements, wind lofts and turbulence I think it would be impossible to fly without proper FF joystick. In real plane it is much easier to counter all those movements of stick and you do it without thinking. In sim it would cause only cries and whines on forums :P.

 

P.s. Thanks EvilBivol-1 for video- very impressing :thumbup:.

[leafer]

If I recall correctly, that video was made in response to the person posting the original video to show it was impossible to perform an aileron roll right after take off because of how unstable DCS stang was. Well, I believe he was wrong. :D

 

Lesnyborsuk, agreed. Perhaps DCS WWII manual should mimic the period cartoon field manual style.

Edited November 21, 2013 by leafer

[Echo38]

Maybe good idea would be to stress the need for proper curve settings somewhere in DCS? Maybe in some training lesson or some other way?

 

Yo-Yo himself recommended using direct input (no curves, no dead zones) for joystick, and I emphatically agree. I've explained often, on several forums, exactly why, as well as detailing the benefits and detriments of curves and direct input. Perhaps such an explanation, instead, should be in the manual/training.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Echo38

[Yo-Yo]

Maybe good idea would be to stress the need for proper curve settings somewhere in DCS? Maybe in some training lesson or some other way? I remember that it took me some time until I have discovered how this changes everything. And really, it was an "eureka" for me.

 

Or use some curves as default? I think that computer sims can't be "as real as it can get" in 100%. Some compromises must be taken. In example- if you would sim in 100% realistic air movements, wind lofts and turbulence I think it would be impossible to fly without proper FF joystick. In real plane it is much easier to counter all those movements of stick and you do it without thinking. In sim it would cause only cries and whines on forums :P.

 

P.s. Thanks EvilBivol-1 for video- very impressing :thumbup:.

 

THe best default curves are LINEAR for DCS planes and helos, because it gives REAL feeling of the aircraft (taking in mind the difference between joystick and real stick). The best tweaking is to tweak hands... :) and all info that you can get from the sim - angular velocities , IAS (using sound changing), force feedback joystick stiffness. Even in real Mustang, as Nick Grey said, one must have "silk hands" to fly on the edge.

 

The only case, I would recommend to tweak the curves, is a formation flying. As you never use full stick travel, you can set Y saturation to project the useful range of virtual stick to the full joystick range. It's wise, because there is no posibility to land with a half of an elevator :) as if you do not fly a combat mission.

And again: I do not say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to fly formation with default curves - I only want to say that it would be EASIER to fly it.

 

THe different headache is rudder pedals... the plastic devices are very far from the real pedals, so even I use curves for them. :)

 

 

P.S. Maybe somebody will include these notes to the manual... :)

Edited November 21, 2013 by Yo-Yo

[VanjaB]

Yo-Yo get back to work on that Su-27 AFM dammit, instead of prattling on about curves on here...:lol::thumbup:

[TAW_Blaze]

So if I've never bothered to set up curves (more like anything at all, can't be bothered to mess with T.A.R.G.E.T., although the sliders don't work so sooner or later I'll have to) should I consider doing it? I guess the difference is that either you go to the mountain or the mountain comes to you. That is, you get used to it by experience, or you try to mess around with the settings so you find one that is comfortable right away. Is that right?

[sobek]

You don't need target to set curves.

[NineLine]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing. I have never used curves myself either... well thats not quite true, I played with them and hated how they feel, but thought maybe I was doing something wrong with them. The P-51D feels considerably more stable than my first flight in it, the only real change has been how many hours I have had flying her.

 

THe best default curves are LINEAR for DCS planes and helos, because it gives REAL feeling of the aircraft (taking in mind the difference between joystick and real stick). The best tweaking is to tweak hands... :) and all info that you can get from the sim - angular velocities , IAS (using sound changing), force feedback joystick stiffness. Even in real Mustang, as Nick Grey said, one must have "silk hands" to fly on the edge.

 

The only case, I would recommend to tweak the curves, is a formation flying. As you never use full stick travel, you can set Y saturation to project the useful range of virtual stick to the full joystick range. It's wise, because there is no posibility to land with a half of an elevator :) as if you do not fly a combat mission.

And again: I do not say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to fly formation with default curves - I only want to say that it would be EASIER to fly it.

 

THe different headache is rudder pedals... the plastic devices are very far from the real pedals, so even I use curves for them. :)

 

 

P.S. Maybe somebody will include these notes to the manual... :)

[Yo-Yo]

Yo-Yo get back to work on that Su-27 AFM dammit, instead of prattling on about curves on here...:lol::thumbup:

 

Gun synchronizers right now, to be honest...

[Pman]

Gun synchronizers right now, to be honest...

 

Your workload never ceases to amaze me mate.

 

Look forward to seeing it in action

[Merlin-27]

some misinformation going on at simhq

 

The P-51D feels considerably more stable than my first flight in it, the only real change has been how many hours I have had flying her.

 

Those flight hours are invaluable. I can remember the days of being afraid to go 61" on takeoff. Now I'm looking around at the scenery and drinking my coffee departing full throttle out of lovely Gudauta.

[Suchacz]

Gun synchronizers right now, to be honest...

You mean that gadget that allows Dora's cannons to shoot safely through the prop disc...?

[Yo-Yo]

You mean that gadget that allows Dora's cannons to shoot safely through the prop disc...?

 

Yes. Any cannon for any right plane. :)

 

UPD: And it's done :) already. The problem was to have average gun ratio truly dependant on the rpm and to calculate it easy and fast without spending processor capacity to model each shot and propeller phase.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Yo-Yo

[Fifi]

THe different headache is rudder pedals... the plastic devices are very far from the real pedals, so even I use curves for them. :)

 

Yeah, the only curve probably needed is for P51 rudder, due to those "not that good" pedals (using Saitek here)

Maybe one day i'll invest in MFG crosswind rudder pedals!

[Echo38]

Yo-Yo, what joystick do you use? Have you modified the length?

[Yo-Yo]

Yo-Yo, what joystick do you use? Have you modified the length?

 

No, I use a standard MSFF2, and it would be unfair to modify it being pro linear response. :)

[sydost]

No, I use a standard MSFF2, and it would be unfair to modify it being pro linear response. :)

 

So do you mean there would be some harm to realism when using extended MSFF2? Isn't it linear anymore with extension?

 

I am just curious as I have thought about extending my MSFF2.

[gavagai]

Yo-yo, how do you work around the MSFF2 problems in 1.2.6? Or do you just use 1.2.5 like other MSFF2 owners?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=103586&page=12

[aracas11]

extended stick

 

I have used a modified saitek x35 stick ( the one with the proper mechanism not the nasty center spring) interfaced with a BU836X 12bit card and found it to be excellent even with the ancient pots !.

I recently extended the stick by 12 inches and can only say that combined with the p51 module it is the best, most precise input device i have ever used giving something like a inch and a half of travel from the onset of a stall to the actual stall proper .

I have been practicing front and side slipping with it with ease but it still remains responsive.

Are the linear responses designed for short throw desktop sticks or for sticks with a more realistic travel range ?

[leafer]

You've just inspired me to do the same.

[julian265]

Are the linear responses designed for short throw desktop sticks or for sticks with a more realistic travel range ?

 

Neither - it's simply zero to full control surface deflection, being mapped to zero to full joystick deflection, with the transfer function (relationship) being linear.

[aracas11]

inspiration

 

Glad to be inspiring .

It would seem that any aircraft with an analog control stick (not F15 eagle or F16 as they have SFS or Force Sticks ) would benefit from a full throw stick given that the BU 12bit interface gives over 4000 discrete steps on each axis as opposed to 256 from a standard 8bit joystick the increased movement range is needed to utilize this increase in resolution effectively .

If your after any tips on the build LEAFER let me know.

[leafer]

Will do. Thanks! :)