EOS 1.2.7

[karambiatos]

that is awesome.

[FLANKERATOR]

Yesterday, the team added EOS elevation control for the Su-27/33. However, it's unclear if this will make it into the 1.2.7 release.

 

Would that mean we're switching back to a plain manual elevation control for the Su's, or would the scan still be automatic until pilot input overtakes?

 

It would also be good to hear official vertical and azimuth mechanical limits once and for all?

[FLANKERATOR]

All of this was quoted with slides from the pilot manuals for the MiG and Su.

Both, the Scan Zone and Track Zone, and the times it takes to Auto-Scan.

Yes, it will keep scanning automatically as it does.

Scan Zone is smaller than Track Zone.

 

Track Zone is the physical limit the cone can go before you have to move the nose or lose the already established lock. The Scan Zone is smaller, but can be moved around (to the limit of Track Zone, up/down, left/right) on 27/33 but for 29, the EOS elevation/pitch has to be done only with moving the nose up/down.

 

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

Have a look at this slideshow I found comparing the F-15 and Su-27 in great detail:

 

Got it. So auto scan within the track zone which we will be able to slew vertically after the update. The scan zone has been announced as +-15/+-30 but how about the track zone (physical limits)?

[FLANKERATOR]

...

The Auto-Scan Zone:

-/+ 15 degrees in elevation, 30 degrees left/right.

On the diagram for MiG-29, there's a zone switch left/center/right and the limits visually shown.

With it in center position, it's 15 left and right, not 30, (30 total, not 60 total).

To achieve 30 each side, need to use the switch.

 

The Track-Zone is -15/+30 in elevation and same -30/+30.

Basically, it takes the bottom -15 degrees and transfers them up to make it 30.

And left and right remain the same 30 degrees max.

 

That's how I understand it, feel free to correct me.

 

Alright so EOS 27 = EOS 29 + 15 degrees vertical bonus thanks to upcoming ability to slew up.

 

Of course there are several scan modes in RL but this is what we are going to get for FC3.

[*Rage*]

Yesterday, the team added EOS elevation control for the Su-27/33. However, it's unclear if this will make it into the 1.2.7 release.

 

Great!

[seikdel]

Okay, pardon my ignorance, but please tell me if my understanding is correct: In 1.2.6, the EOS is gyro-stabilized, so it looks up or down to stay in-line with the horizon. The pilot has no control over that. In 1.2.7, the gyro stabilization is completely removed, so the EOS will point basically wherever the nose is pointing.

 

Is this correct?

[FLANKERATOR]

P.S.: Correction, just the EOS elevation for 27, yes, will add the 30, but not the 60 as in real 27.

For that, we can wait. And the scan patterns arent very important. Just the pitch functionality alone is awesome!

 

That's what I meant and I'm aware this is something that may be implemented in 1.2.7 onwards.

[LowLee]

Thank you Esak.. And very good news Wags!

 

Fulcrum A and Fulcrum C EOS are the same version?

[Cali]

EOS can't see what's blocked by the aircraft nose, so if you want to track aircraft with EOS as it goes down bellow your nose, you must roll to go inverted or you will lose EOS lock.

 

This makes it crystal clear, so all these years EOS has been wrong. Being able to see a contact below the LOS for the EOS was a goof up that the Russian flyers enjoyed. I've never thought of it that way and we have all seen a lot of pictures of the EOS system on the jets.

[Frostie]

This makes it crystal clear, so all these years EOS has been wrong. Being able to see a contact below the LOS for the EOS was a goof up that the Russian flyers enjoyed. I've never thought of it that way and we have all seen a lot of pictures of the EOS system on the jets.

 

This has always been the case, it's a long time common practice in FC to go inverted when going above the bandit you're chasing in EOS.

[Cali]

This has always been the case, it's a long time common practice in FC to go inverted when going above the bandit you're chasing in EOS.

 

I heard that a few times, but I have not had problems tracking someone below me....but not at a crazy angle.

[fitness88]

I must be looking at a different announcement to you.

 

Corrected EOS scan volume and removed gyro-stabilization. The EOS in FC is based on the MiG-29 that does not include an elevation adjustment function.

 

There are no dimensions in the preliminary 1.2.7 announcement. I got the gyro part but i'm still in the dark on FOV for the HUD.

 

In FC2 there is EOS vertical scan capability. Was there in earlier versions of FC3? In the latest version the scan is not fixed to horizon...if I point my nose up it scans where I'm pointing.

[Robin_Hood]

I am, by the way, not 100% sure I understood exactly what it will be like in the Flankers. I assume the EOS will not be gyro-stabilised either, but that we will have an elevation setting in addition (so that I could, for example, point my nose down and set the elevation up to still look at the horizon, or point the nose up and set the elevation up to look further up) ?

That would make sense, I guess.

[FLANKERATOR]

I am, by the way, not 100% sure I understood exactly what it will be like in the Flankers. I assume the EOS will not be gyro-stabilised either, but that we will have an elevation setting in addition (so that I could, for example, point my nose down and set the elevation up to still look at the horizon, or point the nose up and set the elevation up to look further up) ?

That would make sense, I guess.

 

Correct AFAIK. -15/+30 vertical degrees for the Su's manually slewable (yet to be implemented) and detached from the horizon.

[HiJack]

Damn, I have always been inverting when looking for targets down at the ground, like rotor crafts. I have always turned my nose up to try and look for aircrafts high and now you tell me that it has never worked! No wonder I never found anyone then :)

[winchesterdelta1]

Damn, I have always been inverting when looking for targets down at the ground, like rotor crafts. I have always turned my nose up to try and look for aircrafts high and now you tell me that it has never worked! No wonder I never found anyone then :)

 

 

LoL same here :megalol::doh:

And i have alot of diffeculties finding close targets. Only ones from very far flying towards me or away from me i can find easely.

[fitness88]

False, until 1.2.7 patch.

That's the point of the EOS fix.

It's gyro-stabilized currently.

 

The reason you think you controlling it with pitching the aircraft nose is because you're gaining or losing altitude and so the targets may appear around co-altitude. You are actually limiting your EOS FOV by pulling the nose up and down, as it's stabilized to the horizon, which is exactly what's getting fixed.

 

In the MiG you will still have to use the nose for up and down but in 27/33 the manual adjustment is also being added.

 

So not to expect the future of the MIG to have manual vertical adjustment, the only way to scan up will be to point the nose up. Why would only the 27/33 have the manual adjustment implemented? Is all this real world?

 

Thanks.

[LowLee]

Flankers can both use the nose and manual adjustments, and MiG can only use the nose for up/down.

The mig scanning area (+-15º elevation), projected at 20 km, has a height of elevation of +-5.3km...it's enough for a normal use in BVR mode, you need to pitch only if the target is close and very high or very low ;)

[Wags]

Updated 1.2.7 change log today:

 

"Corrected EOS scan volume, removed gyro-stabilization, and added EOS manual elevation scan control for the Su-27 and Su-33. The EOS on the MiG-29 that does not include an elevation adjustment function."

[Frostie]

Thanking you Wags.

[kobac]

Good news. TY.

[Raven68]

Thanking you Wags.

 

I'm sure Tek is somewhere doing his happy dance! :D

[*Rage*]

Nice!

[fitness88]

Gyro stabilization was present for EOS in FC2 and the HUD only saw +/-5 degrees, the elevation slew allowed +30/-15.

 

In FC2 when flying level with a contact on the nose at co-altitude if you pitched the nose up or down the contact would remain in the same spot on the HUD because the gyro was in effect, it would only move when your altitude drastically changed. You could not fly up underneath a target point your nose at it and find it on EOS because of the gyro stabilization.

 

 

Yes quite correct, I did a flight in FC2 Mig-29s and the EOS showed vertical scan adjustments. You can see this clearly, as you adjust the vertical up and down the vertical scan indicator line shows on the left side of the HDD.

Also I was surprised at how nice the plane flew. It didn't seem to have any of the little annoyances still yet to be corrected in DCS FC3 version such as indicated final approach speeds being too slow, EOS loss of manual scan, gear light not having near/far, etc. The sound seemed more realistic and the frame rate was noticeably higher.

I know over the many many months I've read dozens of fixes for the different planes in DCS and I know most here in the forum swear by every update but in truth most of them seemed intangible and hard to appreciate, I just don't see such a big difference.

Edited December 13, 2013 by fitness88

[golfsierra2]

Strange to see, that from FC2 to FC3 things that were OK before re-appear as bugs and need additional fixes...

 

There is a German expression for it. We call it "verschlimmbessern" ... :music_whistling: