DCS:F-35, a guy can dream right?

[Winfield_Gold]

that looks great! and that weather too!

 

Approach is about 3,000ft too high, by the time the pilot gets down to about 1000ft he probably wouldn't have any fuel left. Video was made possible by the unlimited fuel option being ticked in FSX probably. Compare the FSX video to the video's of the R.L F 35

 

 

[tarracta]

 

Seriously man, enough with your "weeaah, weeaah, i told u i dont want old piece of garbage planes, i want the new ones. Give me nau!11!!!" Not one of the complaints you've made this week have been on topic. First you nagged here about ED backing out of making the F-35, though it's common knowledge that it would be made by a 3rd party developer. Then you started derailing the Belsimtek F86/AH1G announcement thread, crying your eyes out about them not making a modern fighter, even though they have since long declared that their planned upcoming modules will be older, classic planes and helicopters.

 

 

Yes, I can repeat only myself, DCS isn't becoming my favourite platform anymore. A-10C came 2011 and it was and is great, but now we've nearly 2014 and I still don't see anything for me even in the far horizon. Do you think we will get this year a F/A-18? Or n F-15E? Or an EF-Typhoon? (all this ghosts are buzzing through these forums for years, but nearly without any manifest information and facts)

 

I surely don't want to bash any work already done by ED or by 3rd parties, and I can understand people who are excited about classic planes, but in the meantime there came my awareness: Truly great stuff for fans, but not for me.

 

People are buying Formula1 2013 or Gran Tourismo because they are enjoying a perfect simulation of high speed, bleeding-edge technology and extreme driving maneuvers possible with these cars. And not trolley- and soapbox-races around the tree done 50 years ago, even if they're perfectly simulated with every detail...

 

But as said, it's okay, I'll find other stuff for me.

[TAW_Blaze]

Some people still don't understand that you cannot simulate such avionics that have no data available.. it wouldn't be 80% realism, more like below 50-25%.

[tarracta]

Some people still don't understand that you cannot simulate such avionics that have no data available.. it wouldn't be 80% realism' date=' more like below 50-25%.[/quote']

 

Yes, then you call it DCS Flaming Cliffs: F-117A Nighthawk.

 

Surely no AFM, surely the cockpit doesn't fit 100% the original one and some classified things are just not integrated. But instead it comes with a perfect 3D model, natural sounds and avionics based on the data which are available. No need to exactly rebuild the radar, the sensors or weapon electronics, it isn't there in F-15C either. But a good game doesn't only consist of a 120%-simulation, things like immersion, a good flight sensation and interesting (multiplayer) missions are just more important.

 

I don't understand this claim to 100% realism, people think if they can fly the A-10C on their PC, they could just jump into the real cockpit and do the same, only because the avionics data are just some more accurate than in other PC-flight-simulations...

Edited December 14, 2013 by tarracta

[TAW_Blaze]

You don't even have enough data to make a flaming cliffs level module.. do you realize that?

 

Borderline what's the point of creating a plane that is SO out of the era represented in DCS that in the next decade nothing will be even planned to compete with it? Russian pilots already complain 24/7 that "F-15 OP", nevermind an F-35..

Edited December 14, 2013 by <Blaze>

[Pilotasso]

Yeah, ED is developing the F-18, third parties are developing the Superhornet, Eurofighter, F-15E, Harrier etc etc.

 

The F-35 was also in kickstarter but it was not well received and was dropped.

[tarracta]

You don't even have enough data to make a flaming cliffs level module.. do you realize that?

 

Borderline what's the point of creating a plane that is SO out of the era represented in DCS that in the next decade nothing will be even planned to compete with it? Russian pilots already complain 24/7 that "F-15 OP", nevermind an F-35..

 

And how comes this plane up in FSX?

 

I'm pretty sure the most data is guessed and the cockpit doesn't look real like shown in this video. But does that automatically mean that it's no fun flying it?

 

The good old titles in the '90ies like DID Total Air War or Novalogic F-16 MRF didn't have to do anything with a simulator. But the planes were nice modelled so that you got a good impression of it and had fun flying around. Today you have only such a crap like ace combat or HAWX where you can't even land...

 

I would love to see a "casual series" of DCS, trying to get the best simulation experience out of the planes (and not control it with 4 buttons...) without affecting classified or unknown data. I think this would be a nice cash cow because it's a huge market cap.

 

And then the professional-DCS-series which simulates well-known planes with the constraint that there's only classic stuff available...

And the problem with OP planes you got all the time and may not be a reason for stopping production of an airplane. It's only a question about mission design. Even in Jane's USAF you hadn't nearly any chance to get an F-22 down with a Phantom... so you don't let them go head-to-head...

Edited December 14, 2013 by tarracta

[TAW_Blaze]

So you want to have a completely made up fighter that has literally nothing to do with the real thing other than the looks and perhaps engine performance. Wonderful.

 

If it's done in FSX you might aswell go there and fly it there. But there's no point of wasting time and effort on doing such a joke of a fighter in a COMBAT ORIENTATED SIM. Again, this piece of sci-fi doesn't fit into the timeframe right now, so unless you want to please some CoD players being able to stomp everything because their tech is superior there's very little reason in making this.

 

Just on a sidenote, most of the people flying DCS actually want AFMs, accurate models of avionics. Just look how badly everyone wants the already existing FC fighters to get upgraded. Look how badly they want their F-18. Why? Because it's going to have AFM, and accurate avionics. The exact 2 things that the current fighters lack the most.

[HiJack]

 

:lol:

[MTFDarkEagle]

So you want to have a completely made up fighter that has literally nothing to do with the real thing other than the looks and perhaps engine performance. Wonderful.

 

If it's done in FSX you might aswell go there and fly it there. But there's no point of wasting time and effort on doing such a joke of a fighter in a COMBAT ORIENTATED SIM. Again, this piece of sci-fi doesn't fit into the timeframe right now, so unless you want to please some CoD players being able to stomp everything because their tech is superior there's very little reason in making this.

 

Just on a sidenote, most of the people flying DCS actually want AFMs, accurate models of avionics. Just look how badly everyone wants the already existing FC fighters to get upgraded. Look how badly they want their F-18. Why? Because it's going to have AFM, and accurate avionics. The exact 2 things that the current fighters lack the most.

THIS!!!

[LeadDoctor]

I understand that If a F-35 modual was built the realism factor would be lower then every one here expects. How ever the fun factor would be awesome and taking a break from all the other DCS birds once in a while and just having a good ole time is a good thing. Same would go for the F-22 and PAK-50. This would also bring more people into DCS and more revenue for ED. More revenue means more goodys being developed.

[Scrim]

And how comes this plane up in FSX?

 

I'm pretty sure the most data is guessed and the cockpit doesn't look real like shown in this video. But does that automatically mean that it's no fun flying it?

 

The good old titles in the '90ies like DID Total Air War or Novalogic F-16 MRF didn't have to do anything with a simulator. But the planes were nice modelled so that you got a good impression of it and had fun flying around. Today you have only such a crap like ace combat or HAWX where you can't even land...

 

I would love to see a "casual series" of DCS, trying to get the best simulation experience out of the planes (and not control it with 4 buttons...) without affecting classified or unknown data. I think this would be a nice cash cow because it's a huge market cap.

 

And then the professional-DCS-series which simulates well-known planes with the constraint that there's only classic stuff available...

And the problem with OP planes you got all the time and may not be a reason for stopping production of an airplane. It's only a question about mission design. Even in Jane's USAF you hadn't nearly any chance to get an F-22 down with a Phantom... so you don't let them go head-to-head...

 

Yep, just as Blaze said: DCS has never been the game for you. The strong point that DCS can market itself with are all the things you think are completely unnecessary if it stands between you and getting a "high speed" plane.

"Realistic flight model? Noooo thank you, I'd rather have the plane than realism."

"Realistic aircraft systems? Screw that, give me my stealth bomber of doom!"

"Clickable cockpit? Nah, I really think you nailed it there with the free, low quality SU-25T."

"An accurate cockpit at least then? NO!!! Give me my next gen planes. I don't care that the only realistic thing about them will be the exterior model, and that the rest will be based on nothing but speculations!!"

 

Seriously, you're way better of either using one of those exterior model mods where the plane for all intents and purposes except the exterior model is an A-10, or playing something else, like BF or Arma for your flight "simulation". The only thing you've said that you don't care about at this point is the exterior model. You've said that you've got no problems with fiction based flight models, systems, or even an accurate or clickable cockpit. The only thing you demand from an F-35, F-117, F-22, etc. is that from the outside, it looks like one. I fully agree, 120% simulation isn't required. But what you're asking for isn't even 20%.

 

Also, the F-35 "production" (did it even start?) wasn't halted because it was considered OP, it stopped because there simply wasn't enough interest in it to get even halfway through with the Kickstarter pledging (only about 42%).

 

 

I would love to see a "casual series" of DCS, trying to get the best simulation experience out of the planes (and not control it with 4 buttons...) without affecting classified or unknown data.

For the first bolded part, GET OUT! For both parts together, you're just confirming that you don't care about anything else than that it looks the deal from the outside, since you're asking for planes that have more classified aspects than unclassified. There's already a huge market for those, so I very much doubt there'd be any point for ED or any 3rd party dev to go there.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Scrim

[LeadDoctor]

 

If it's done in FSX you might aswell go there and fly it there. But there's no point of wasting time and effort on doing such a joke of a fighter in a COMBAT ORIENTATED SIM

 

It is fun flying it in FSX but it would be so much better in DCS.

[TAW_Blaze]

I understand that If a F-35 modual was built the realism factor would be lower then every one here expects. How ever the fun factor would be awesome and taking a break from all the other DCS birds once in a while and just having a good ole time is a good thing. Same would go for the F-22 and PAK-50. This would also bring more people into DCS and more revenue for ED. More revenue means more goodys being developed.

 

Any of the following modules being released would bring exponentially more revenue than the subject made-up stuff:

 

Hornet

Apache

Cobra

F-15E

FC fighters put into DCS level

F-16

F-14

 

Especially the multicrew aircraft, those would be so amazing. Everyone wants them. Even though I have a decent idea shaped in my mind how they could work out, I can only imagine how difficult it is to make them work.

 

Now some of these are already WIP. Starting a new project that is based on educated guessing and speculation is highly inefficient and ED knows this too. Not to mention the interest is not very high. It's much more worth it for them to finish the WIPs, and create more DCS level models that fit into the era of the existing ones.

Edited December 14, 2013 by <Blaze>

[LeadDoctor]

Now some of these are already WIP. Starting a new project that is based on educated guessing and speculation is highly inefficient and ED knows this too. Not to mention the interest is not very high. It's much more worth it for them to finish the WIPs, and create more DCS level models that fit into the era of the existing ones.

 

Right on but it would most likely be done by a thrid party. I also think theirs a market to be tapped into here. Theirs a lot of FSXers that fly dinos that would love a more capable F-35 in a combat simulator. I'm sure one day it will happen.

[tarracta]

So you want to have a completely made up fighter that has literally nothing to do with the real thing other than the looks and perhaps engine performance. Wonderful.

 

Nah, even with average physics experience and the given data you can calculate how a plane behaves and do some interesting flight models with it.

 

If it's done in FSX you might aswell go there and fly it there. But there's no point of wasting time and effort on doing such a joke of a fighter in a COMBAT ORIENTATED SIM. Again, this piece of sci-fi doesn't fit into the timeframe right now, so unless you want to please some CoD players being able to stomp everything because their tech is superior there's very little reason in making this.

 

It doesn't has to be a joke fighter, even without knowing anything about the F-35 I would make it 100 times more interesting than the guys in BF4 did it.

 

Just on a sidenote, most of the people flying DCS actually want AFMs, accurate models of avionics. Just look how badly everyone wants the already existing FC fighters to get upgraded. Look how badly they want their F-18. Why? Because it's going to have AFM, and accurate avionics. The exact 2 things that the current fighters lack the most.

 

I DO want these modules, too. But when do we get them? I'm pretty sure that today in a year some people will be still greedy here for a F/A-18 but noone hasn't ever seen any official cockpit-shot or at least a detailled description what we are waiting for at all.

 

But it harms no company to have diversity product lines ... so much manufacturers have a professional-series and a casual-series for amateurs. And in the most time the casual market brings the money because there are much more buyers (think of these trash-games for iPad...). So a successfull casual-series of actual fighter planes would bring a benefit for us all: more funds and manpower for developing DCS-series. And not start the development of planes normal people didn't even hear about it.

 

 

I understand that If a F-35 modual was built the realism factor would be lower then every one here expects. How ever the fun factor would be awesome and taking a break from all the other DCS birds once in a while and just having a good ole time is a good thing. Same would go for the F-22 and PAK-50. This would also bring more people into DCS and more revenue for ED. More revenue means more goodys being developed.

 

 

THIS! +1

 

Yep, just as Blaze said: DCS has never been the game for you. The strong point that DCS can market itself with are all the things you think are completely unnecessary if it stands between you and getting a "high speed" plane.

"Realistic flight model? Noooo thank you, I'd rather have the plane than realism."

"Realistic aircraft systems? Screw that, give me my stealth bomber of doom!"

"Clickable cockpit? Nah, I really think you nailed it there with the free, low quality SU-25T."

"An accurate cockpit at least then? NO!!! Give me my next gen planes. I don't care that the only realistic thing about them will be the exterior model, and that the rest will be based on nothing but speculations!!"

[/Quote]

 

You don't need to go in the other extremes. Having only 50% of correct data and some simplified systems doesn't mean 0% fun. Actually a 100% realism scares many people (OMG 500 pages to read in a handbook).

If so, noone would buy Flaming Cliffs (But in fact, this is the title which brings the money! Not the 100%-realism-games for the small community of hardcore-simmers).

 

 

Seriously, you're way better of either using one of those exterior model mods where the plane for all intents and purposes except the exterior model is an A-10, or playing something else, like BF or Arma for your flight "simulation". The only thing you've said that you don't care about at this point is the exterior model. You've said that you've got no problems with fiction based flight models, systems, or even an accurate or clickable cockpit. The only thing you demand from an F-35, F-117, F-22, etc. is that from the outside, it looks like one. I fully agree, 120% simulation isn't required. But what you're asking for isn't even 20%.[/Quote]

 

OMG no .. really no immersion when the cockpit even doesn't fit in the airframe...

 

Also, the F-35 "production" (did it even start?) wasn't halted because it was considered OP, it stopped because there simply wasn't enough interest in it to get even halfway through with the Kickstarter pledging (only about 42%).

[/Quote]

 

and several other reasons...

 

 

For the first bolded part, GET OUT! For both parts together, you're just confirming that you don't care about anything else than that it looks the deal from the outside, since you're asking for planes that have more classified aspects than unclassified. There's already a huge market for those, so I very much doubt there'd be any point for ED or any 3rd party dev to go there.

 

I will do so. But there is sadly no alternative. The "mainstream market" consists of crappy console titles where you fly the plane with external view with the PS3 controller. Or titles with graphics like in the 90ies. And for this i would not pay any cent. But i don't want to fly in a soapbox, even if every little screw and physics is perfectly modelled, either. So I'm giving it up in general and sell my joystick and things on ebay.... 2 years ago I thought of a "back-to-the-roots" revolution of flight sims...

Edited December 14, 2013 by tarracta

[Silver_Dragon]

That´s Serious?

 

I DO want these modules, too. But when do we get them? I'm pretty sure that today in a year some people will be still greedy here for a F/A-18 but noone hasn't ever seen any official cockpit-shot or at least a detailled description what we are waiting for at all.

 

Really? and Coretex F/A-18E?

 

[tarracta]

That´s Serious?

 

 

 

Really? and Coretex F/A-18E?

 

 

Ya and the ED F/A-18? As far as I know we don't have to hope about any info before Sep. 2014. And like the things here going, this can be September 2015, too. CTD is a big hope (and for me the most interesting far forward to the others), but I don't see an ETA, anyway. Still much work to do (but it's okay)...

 

But as said, I'm too much frustrated to believe and looking forward to things eventually coming... not the thing for me, anymore. So, last post.

Edited December 14, 2013 by tarracta

[TAW_Blaze]

You act like ED and the 3rd party developers are doing nothing. Razbam is working on the Buckeye and then they'll most likely go for the Strike Eagle once the Buckeye is done. Belsimtek is working with the Huey/Mi-8. F-18 is both in works at ED and Coretex. Not mentioning that ED is also working to upgrade DCS:W with EDGE, improve stability, etc. On top of that, F-15C AFM.

 

Sim industry has never been popular. Because the average joe is not interested in investing a ton of time in learning stuff. Fine, I don't give a damn. His problem.

 

This title has been the highest standard for realism beside military sims that are generally unaccessible to the public. Then you come here and want ED to start doing casual stuff. It's not their cup of tea. Nor ours. Don't take this personal but you just want them to do stuff according to your personal preference. Ain't gonna happen.

 

There's one way you can fix this. Find other companies that fit your preferences.

 

Just forget about it. THEY WON'T DO IT. As friggin simple as that. No matter how hard you complain here.

[Silver_Dragon]

If you like, you can see the Unofficial ED and 3rd parties roadmap:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

[LeadDoctor]

This title has been the highest standard for realism beside military sims that are generally unaccessible to the public. Then you come here and want ED to start doing casual stuff. It's not their cup of tea. Nor ours. Don't take this personal but you just want them to do stuff according to your personal preference. Ain't gonna happen.

 

Wags has stated in the past that their would be three levels of air craft. FC, mid level and DCS. The F-35 would fit in the lines of those. Clickable cock pit with FC level aveonics. Its nothing to flame about. Theirs lots of info out there on the F-35. You can see the trainer cockpit in many videos. If you argue about that than what is the DCS A10c? Its based off the training version ED made fot the ANG.

[TAW_Blaze]

It wouldn't fit. You can't model avionics to represent how they work because there's no data available. For the existing ones, you have quite a lot of data about how they work. THERE ISN'T ENOUGH DATA TO MAKE A F-35 RIGHT NOW NOT EVEN AT FC LEVEL.

 

Can you forget about this "you can see this and that in many videos" bullshit already? It's

 

W

O

R

T

H

L

E

S

S

 

If you try to recreate something without knowing how it works, you're going to FAIL. It's like trying to create a jet engine based on how it looks..

[Snoopy]

If you argue about that than what is the DCS A10c? Its based off the training version ED made fot the ANG.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. Yes the A-10C came out of the desk top simulator for the Air National Guard but the difference is ED has/had access to current (at the time) tech orders. you won't get that for the F-35.

 

Now, I'm not saying assumptions based on publicly available information wouldn't be possible just that Lockheed Martin is not going to give access to current tech orders for the F-35.

[LeadDoctor]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Yes the A-10C came out of the desk top simulator for the Air National Guard but the difference is ED has/had access to current (at the time) tech orders. you won't get that for the F-35.

 

Now, I'm not saying assumptions based on publicly available information wouldn't be possible just that Lockheed Martin is not going to give access to current tech orders for the F-35.

 

This is true. Were never going to get a 100% because of clasified systems ect. But we all know if such a modual was made it would be way less then the DCS A-10C as with most other moduals coming down the pipeline being equal or less.

[Speedbrake]

Much Too New

 

Just a note...Lockheed turned out the 100 F-35 this past week. With it being so new and the avionics so confidential or secret you won't see enough data on this aircraft (or rather 3-aircraft - variants) for years.

 

:pilotfly: