Am I a Terrible Pilot?

[CrackerJack]

I have the TM Warthog and have been working through the training missions and also the picked up the Maple Flag BFQ missions as well.

 

When I try to maintain a requested alt and hdg I end up in overshooting/undershooting cycle. I have a hard time smoothly settling on the requested alt and hdg.

 

I have tried tuning the pitch/roll axes so I have some curvature (30) and x sat 100, y sat 75 with a little deadzone as suggested in some threads.

 

I have also tried working with small trim inputs. Not sure what else to try tuning wise.

 

I'm starting to suspect that I'm just a terrible pilot :(

 

I realize its not easy but if anyone has had similar struggles I'd appreciate your words of wisdom.

 

Cheers and Happy New Year!

[GripenNG]

It´s a good thing to have some curvature on the axis to start with, mine are around 28, but I do not own a TM, so I can´t say if it´s needed on that.

 

I don´t know how long you´ve been into flight sims, but most on these forums have been around for years. Myself since I was a kid in the Flanker 2,5 era.

 

Study real world flight dynamics (such as that in the DCS manual) and then practice, practice and practice until you feel comfortable. :) I promise you that with some passion you will get there, and it will feel just as riding a bicycle. A little tip is to fly from your heart. :)

[SharpeXB]

I picked up A-10 on sale at Steam and had no modern flight sim experience at all, only RoF which is great on flying but not systems or instruments. I threw myself into combat sims without any flight school.

A fun idea is to try something like X-Plane and do its basic flight school. Learning to do turns at a consistent bank and rate, Y'know the stuff that seems boring when there are so many weapons to learn.

The way to not overshoot your heading in a turn is set a bank angle of 30d, look at the mark on you AH. Hold that angle and rate of turn, the 10d before your desired heading start rolling out of the turn and it will be easy to be right on.

 

These lessons would be just as applicable to the A-10 as any other plane.

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showforum=90

Edited January 1, 2014 by SharpeXB

[cichlidfan]

A little bit of advice from another terrible pilot.

 

Relax a bit. You probably have the stick in a death grip much of the time. Your curves are OK for now, don't mess with them anymore for the time being. The Warthog itself, is a very stiff joystick and until you get used to it, that can also contribute to control issues. Trimming takes a very light touch as well.

 

Another thing that I found useful for things like learning how to turn smoothly, is to create your own little mission (simple stuff is easy to do) so that you can just fly by yourself. Then just get up in the air and pick an altitude and practice turning. Don't worry if it isn't perfect, just try to make each turn a tiny bit better.

[camsr]

Trim the nose down a little bit to compensate for the A10's natural uproll. This makes entering banks much smoother.

[The LT]

I'd also stay away from curvature settings if you use a TM Warthog, ever since I started flying with it after the Saitek X52Pro it was just "whoa, a whole new plane".

 

It's about you, not about the stick. The TMWH is a decent stick, take your time and use the trimmer as suggested above. You'll get the hang of it. Good luck!

[shagrat]

One additional tip. Learn to feel the plane! Anticipate control inputs. Do not Yank the stick. I found it astonishing, how smooth and slow you need to control the A-10C... to familiarize yourself, try to use only three quarters of the available movement zone (I mean physically on the stick - not axis tuning!) When you got a feel for the reactions to your inputs you can get more "aggressive".. and as said before, use the trim. Better trim the nose a bit down and pull a tiny bit on the stick.

Ah yes, take into account, that control inputs may instantly change the ailerons, rudders, etc. but to actually move the plane, especially at higher speeds, can take a second or two...

[johnv2pt0]

I would also stay away from curvatures on the axis. There are very few times you will need to do that in order to simulate what the actual airframe feels like. Most people use axis adjusting as a way to "cheat." IMHO it's much better to learn how to fly then make it easier to fly.

 

But that's just as an aside...

 

For leveling off, a good rule of thumb is to start at 10% of your VVI. Example: 1000 ft/min climb, start your level off 100 ft below your desired altitude.

 

As others have said, just keep with it and you'll get a feel for the jet. Don't get too discouraged about trimming either...it's much harder to trim in this game than in real life. With my TMWH I find myself wishing I had twice as many trimming intervals as I actually have. However, as a tip for trimming, remember to fly the airplane and trim off the resistance. Don't "fly with the trim."

[PFunk1606688187]

I use a very light curvature on my X52. About 12-14 I think.

 

The biggest issue with this advice of not using any curvature is that its not realistic either. Real sticks in real aircraft are considerably longer than the one you're using, and therefore require greater physical input to generate a similar result you'd generate with your home stick with less input. This means that your inputs are necessarily going to be finer in simming than in actual flying, unless you do a stick modification to lengthen your stick's throw.

 

So I'd say you don't need to feel bad for using a curvature, though there is for anyone who does a sweet spot where you find that your curve suits your normal inputs. If your curve is too aggressive you can find that it'll effectively multiply your inputs across a part of the curve you want to be more linear which means you'll find your inputs running away from you and leading to that too-much/too-little oscillation.

 

 

All this gear talk aside, in general yes you are a terrible terrible pilot. We all are when we start. You are just now coming to terms with a new skill you're developing, that of actually handling the aircraft. You're at the most basic entry level for piloting. You of course will benefit from lots of very helpful people here. All I can tell you is that we all were that way. It felt like we would yank up and down and send the aircraft somewhere we didn't want it to go, at least we all did that with our first aircraft whichever sim it was.

 

Stick with it, learn to use a gentle touch. Hold the stick like you're holding an egg. You own the single most precise simming stick ever produced as far as I know, so you have an excellent piece of gear to begin learning with.

 

It would behoove you to learn about the principles of flight as well if you don't already know. Understanding how your aircraft's control surfaces and lift surfaces behave will only improve you understanding of your own ham-fisted attempts to corral it into submission.

 

One important specific I will leave you with is the concept behind correct trimming. Correct trimming involves you bringing the aircraft to the desired attitude, in your case it seems straight and level, by using stick pressure. You then trim away the pressure from your stick so that you can release the stick and the aircraft remains at the desired attitude. This is done by gently releasing stick pressure as you trim until you require none to maintain that attitude. Not usually all in one go. The A-10 trim can run away from you if you get too giddy.

 

So really you have two skills to learn.

• Gentle and precise stick input to achieve a desired attitude
  
• Correct stick trimming habits to ensure you can easily retain this attitude while 'hands off'
  

 

Good luck. :thumbup:

[ENO]

This must be where all the bad pilots hang out.

 

My name is Eno, and I am a bad pilot.

 

I had some difficulty with the speed inputs as well... these were most noticeable while refuelling.

 

When I need to do those delicate throttle inputs I'll split the throttle and only use 1 to control speed. These allow for minute changes without having to change the axis curves.

 

Also, with refuelling a piece of advice that I've always abided by whether it actually works or not is to ever so slightly deploy the speed brake as you're settling in. If you click too fast, it just resets and closes... so you need to check it out. It'll be deployed just enough to be open- but not open enough to significantly hamper your maneuvers.

 

My understanding of it fit with what I've experienced and allowed for further dampening of the inputs without tampering with the control curves.

 

As P-Funk says above- be gentle... we can't actually FEEL the response of the aircraft to our inputs so we need to depend on our sight. As mentioned above, if I ever so slightly nudge one throttle forward a millimeter I won't see a response to that immediately though I'd likely feel it if I were in the cockpit. We need to wait to measure our input against what we see out of the cockpit and match that up with the input we're getting from our instruments. Did you just speed up, or did they just slow down... and does it matter? Either way, you need to adjust again-

 

Fortunately for us the AI generally maintain a pretty good speed if you set it up this way. Find a refuelling mission or make one... put yourself right behind the tanker at 15000 feet. Set the tanker to about 300 knots- ends up being about 245 indicated at 15000 feet...

 

It helps to know what the speed is when you start- lightens the load on you as a new pilot. As you get closer to the tanker, knowing what speed he's flying allows you to get into the groove a little quicker. Remember if you don't safe your weapons before you go to hook up, when you open the fuel door it'll mess up your trim as it turns off the system designed to contend with the gun. (turning it off bumps your nose up so if you're not ready for it it'll mess up your trim).

 

Don't spend the time to get your trim figured out just to open the refuelling door and have to start all over again. Your weapons SHOULD be safed out anyway... but hey- we're not professionals so we occasionally miss a step.

 

As for the other stuff, that's just a question of getting some stick time in... but doing precise speed control can be very difficult without a few pointers.

Edited January 2, 2014 by ENO

[johnv2pt0]

The biggest issue with this advice of not using any curvature is that its not realistic either. Real sticks in real aircraft are considerably longer than the one you're using, and therefore require greater physical input to generate a similar result you'd generate with your home stick with less input. This means that your inputs are necessarily going to be finer in simming than in actual flying, unless you do a stick modification to lengthen your stick's throw.

 

Well, you’re right with the above, but wrong with how that translates to teaching someone to fly on a sim. :) Stick throw is longer in most aircraft (some have side mounted sticks though that will be similar if not the same), but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything to your brain-to-hand process.

 

The T-34C has mechanical linkage from the controls to the control surfaces. Those surfaces are small. The C-17 has HUGE control surfaces, but they are electrically initiated and hydraulically actuated. The 34 feels fairly heavy on the controls when at high speed, but the 17 is like butta.

 

And you know what…you fly them exactly the same. I’ve never flown any side stick aircraft, so I don’t know if they have curves built in to them, but all I’ve flown are linear. So it doesn’t matter exactly what the stick is…it matters that it’s linear.

 

Much the same as professional fps gamers don’t use mouse acceleration… You need a constant ratio.

 

So, I think it’s better to know your stick (insert joke here) and just fly with it. You will be better across multiple platforms.

 

When I need to do those delicate throttle inputs I'll split the throttle and only use 1 to control speed.

As P-Funk says above- be gentle... we can't actually FEEL the response of the aircraft to our inputs so we need to depend on our sight. As mentioned above, if I ever so slightly nudge one throttle forward a millimeter I won't see a response to that immediately though I'd likely feel it if I were in the cockpit. We need to wait to measure our input against what we see out of the cockpit and match that up with the input we're getting from our instruments.

 

Splitting the throttle while doing AR is a really good technique ENO. Lots of pilots do this IRL. However, you don’t so much feel the movement of those small throttle inputs, nor are they immediate in jet engines. AR is almost all visual. Every throttle change is a process. Put in a change, wait for the change to take effect, reduce the input, then catch the desired airspeed. Forward, wait, back, forward. Or vise versa. So in that respect, it’s the same in sim as IRL.

 

AR is a whole nother topic though, with lots of techniques and such.

 

So in my opinion you’re better off leaving the curves alone, but there are many ways to skin the cat, and my wife tells me I’m a pretty stupid person. It’s a sim after all, and you should be having fun with it. It’s a rewarding process.

[Krunkskimo]

Best to practice as often as possible. As soon as you get comfortable with the stick, curves, and how the a-10 handles it will all be second nature.

[Angbor]

Practice is the key here. When I started out, there were a lot of things I did wrong. Had a death grip on my stick, over corrected every single overshoot and in general moved the stick too much.

 

To get better I just putted around by myself on an empty map. I did some turns, changed altitude, played around with my speed. Basically figured out just how little input it needed for the bird to react and do what I wanted. Getting the "feel" for it is probably the most important part of not being a terrible pilot.

 

But I would also say, that flying around alone is only going to help you so much. If you really want to get good at it, you'll eventually have to fly in formation with another plane. And when you're good at that, go for Air to Air refueling. Ultimately, just shy of doing Blue Angles type stuff, the A to A refuel is the hardest flight thing you'll do.

[Dejjvid]

100% saturation, no deadzone and 30 curvature!

 

Then practice, practice and practice some more.

[Slap_Chop]

Yes

[CrackerJack]

Thanks for all the valuable insights. I spent some time trying different curvatures, dead zones etc. For me and my Warthog TM I found that 0 deadzone and 0 curvature were the best. I also consciously worked on loosening my grip on the throttle. With these changes I was able to do a couple of ILS landings last night. Of course I need a lot more time in the pit but at least I feel like now the time spent will pay off. It is a truly rewarding experience!

[Madog]

Hey,

another hint that helped me out a great deal: with the default settings the trim is pretty rough, meaning one click does trim more than one knot of speed. To make trim more sensitive, i choose one of two methods:

1) apply a curve to the axis, this way trim gets more sensive around the stick center also.

2) shorten the minimum key press length. I did this in target by using the " SetKBRate 75, 33);" command. The result is a much more sensitive trim function, where i can perfectly trim the aircraft to a certain speed, this is very very helpful when refueling. Of course you will have to use TARGET to use this. Also, with this method i was able to terminate all curves from the stick and still be able to refuel properly.

[Wrecking Crew]

If you think your trim is wacky, reset it with LCntrl T.

 

WC

[Home Fries]

Since you have the Warthog (which has a lot of centering force) I'll second or third the recommendation to get rid of the axis curves. It may be harder to get a soft touch now, but you might as well learn it now before your muscle memory makes you develop bad habits.

 

Flying is not easy. It takes a student pilot a minimum of 40 hours to qualify for a private VFR ticket, and even then most student pilots need upwards of 60 hours to be competent for the check ride. Even then, no freshly minted private pilot would consider themselves Chuck Yeager. Just be patient, don't get hung up on what you did wrong, but make note of it as something to add to your scan next time. Use nice, easy control inputs (stick and throttle); master control with the basics before pulling the stick into your lap.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Home Fries