Hydraulics Failure; RTB Manually. How?

[DieHard]

Been flying lately in Multiplayer to the S77th's server. Been losing hydraulics once in awhile, always from a SAM hitting me.

 

Read this thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117115&highlight=hydraulics

 

Read the World version Shark flight manual, page 10-52. This source does not tell much how to RTB after battle damage.

 

What is the procedure as to emergency moves after losing the hydraulics?

 

I have gotten back to base or FARP, quite aways back, but have never successfully landed it, yet. It is a heck of a chore flying it. And usually there is other battle damage to complicate matters.

 

I am playing around with Axis Tune in Options to shorten my joystick cyclic throw.

 

Picking brains to see what other guys do.

 

Yeah, I know, don't get hit.

 

Combat: How-To

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117176

Edited January 22, 2014 by DieHard

[Bushmanni]

When you lose hydraulics don't use the trimmer as that makes the bird do something weird. Other than that you just need to fly it much more gently than normal. You will notice that collective moves really slow without hydraulics and it can't be pulled completely up anymore so you can't make maneuvers that require quick collective changes or lot's of collective ie. make only shallow turns (less than 30 degrees bank) and accelerate and slow down slowly. Your cyclic won't move throughout its range either but with the flying tips regarding collective this won't become a problem.

 

You should lower your gear immediately when you notice hydraulics damage as after losing all the pressure it won't come down anymore and you have to make a belly landing.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Losing hyd press generally makes you lose your AP channels, so expect the aircraft to behave less stable. RTB as best you can, but remember this: before you start messing with your gear and such: FLY.

 

Staying alive is far more important than doing a belly landing (which is just a landing, but a bit more challenging).

Over your right shoulder you can see gauges for your primary and seconday (and accumulator for that matter) hyd systems.

If you only lose your primary system, the gear can still come down, but you have to switch to the secondary system for the gear (this can be done with the covered switch near the gear lever). If however, you lose both systems, you have to perform a belly landing.

 

You can practice this off course by either setting failures in a training mission, or you can switch the primary hyd system off (switch on the right switchpanel).

[msalama]

As others said, don't trim and just concentrate on flying the bugger. Entirely doable I've found.

[number3]

You will also want to jettison your weapon stores. That should help with the rough landings. When I lose hydraulics, I stabalize and lower my gear (if possible) before I lose all hydraulic pressure.

[MTFDarkEagle]

You will also want to jettison your weapon stores.

True, but if and only if you have the helicopter under control. If you aren't in control of the damn thing jettisoning the stores won't help at all.

[Bushmanni]

If you lose hydraulics there's no absolute need to jettison stores as the chopper will fly just fine with them altough it might be a little bit harder. If you fly the chopper smoothly and coordinated when losing hydraulics or autopilot the chopper will keep flying just fine without any drama.

 

You are often at low altitude when you lose your engine or it catches fire so there's not much time for emergency procedures until it's too late. I have mapped the two jettison switches to LAlt+Space and RAlt+Space and fuel cut-off levers to programmable buttons on my keyboard so they are within quick reach and I can jettison stores and cut fuel while concentrating on flying.

[Davis0079]

I'm with number3...jettison all weapons so your lighter and put gear down asap before all hydros are lost...

 

if any of them are still on.....centering the AP systems then turning them off and going to manual flight can sometimes be better then waiting for the remaining systems to fail because when they go it leaves you surprised and untrimmed

[MTFDarkEagle]

I'm with number3...jettison all weapons so your lighter and put gear down asap before all hydros are lost...

As I suggested above: if and only if you have the heli under control. Dumping the stores is going to do bum all.. All it's potentially going to be doing is distracting you from regaining control. Furthermore: if you have the heli under control, why dump the stores? Yes it's a video game it doesn't matter... But if the mission has limited ammunition.. It might make a difference.

[Davis0079]

I normally (sad to say, I take alot of damage, stupid rocket runs) can take damage, lose hydros, turn 180 while diving to the deck, level the helo in uncontrolled flight, do a look at the AP and hydro gauges, jettison all weapons, lower gear, establish a RTB direction and start to change course, in under 10-15 seconds....then fly for another 3 mins before total hydro and engine failure....

 

I say all this because your telling me not to worry about the weapons because I have to FLY, FLY, FLY....I'm saying its not a big deal...I am flying....maybe not in total control, but I got it under control....AND, I get to pickle all my stores on purpose...its not that I have to...its that I like to...and it looks cool too...

 

...so like I said, drop stores, gear down, crash in 300 yards....just like i planned it....

[Rogue Trooper]

Exactly as mentioned above, for engine jettison stores and cut off fuel. If you have a programmable stick like the warthog you can programme one button to do the fuel cut off and the pump (one per engine off course). I set the up setting of the UMD switch to emergencies: Gear, crossfeed, fuel, stores and of course eject.

 

for hydraulics keep the nose down and maintain steady control of the nose especially when slowing down to land, this should be a slow planned process.

Practice flying the shark with no stores or AP channels... she is the most agile helicopter in DCS world and you will have fun online belting her around cities. This chopper is all about the rudders!

 

With AP she is not the most Agile helicopter in DCS.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Rogue Trooper

[Macross]

Learning to fly and land without AP channels on is a must. I fly 90% of the time without AP's and like Rouge Trooper says, she is an agile machine with the sluggish buttons turned off.

 

That way, when you do loose Hydro, you can still fly.... not like the people who rely on AP to help them, and drop like a stone when they take a few rounds in the Hydro system.

 

I only use AP when coming in to a hover and engaging targets at range.

[Yurgon]

I fly 90% of the time without AP's and like Rouge Trooper says, she is an agile machine with the sluggish buttons turned off.

 

It's obviously good to know how the aircraft flies when the stability augmentation systems fail in order to be prepared for emergency situations.

 

In normal operations OTOH it's highly recommended to leave them on. The AP will drastically reduce the pilot's workload. It's a single seat attack helicopter after all. IIRC real pilots were actually required to leave the AP channels on at all times.

 

Also, I would highly recommend to first learn flying with the AP channels on and to learn the intricacies of the auto-pilot and the associated systems. It is complex and possibly the most difficult thing to wrap your head around in the Black Shark. But it is also highly rewarding to fly a combat mission and almost never touch the cyclic (except for the buttons on it) :thumbup:

Edited February 3, 2014 by Yurgon
Typo

[Davis0079]

some dont like it....but I'm a believer, the AP system is the best and most useful system on the Blackshark....learning to hold the trimmer and the collective brake while maneuvering makes it to where you dont need to turn off the AP channels to fly aggressively.....everything ppl are doing with the AP off can be done if the AP is used correctly.....sad to say though, for most ppl, the bad habits have all ready taken over, and they will never want to learn the AP system or try to use it correctly....

 

...there is nothing you can do with the AP off, that I cant do by simply holding the trimmer or collective brake....and when the maneuver is done, i let go of the trimmer and brake, the heli goes completely stable...you finish your wild maneuver and you are still as out of control in level flight as you were a minute ago when you were doing loops....

 

...oh well, AP usage is way off topic anyways...this point has been proven in the trimmer threads and in the "collective brake, and when to use it" thread...

[TurboHog]

Try flight director mode. It's better than AP off. You will have some more stability but still full control.

 

I used to fly like that, but now I just hold down the trimmer if I'm manoeuvring. Being able to 'lock' the helicopter in the assigned attitude is really usefull.

[Bucic]

Read the World version Shark flight manual, page 10-52. This source does not tell much how to RTB after battle damage.

Holy! Indeed it tells squat :huh:

 

6-40 describes Emergency gear hydraulics selector switch. I don't feel like disecting the 13-24 diagram but I'd be surprised if the gear down function has no hyd. accumulator providing a solid redundancy.

[BitMaster]

some dont like it....but I'm a believer, the AP system is the best and most useful system on the Blackshark....learning to hold the trimmer and the collective brake while maneuvering makes it to where you dont need to turn off the AP channels to fly aggressively.....everything ppl are doing with the AP off can be done if the AP is used correctly.....sad to say though, for most ppl, the bad habits have all ready taken over, and they will never want to learn the AP system or try to use it correctly....

 

...there is nothing you can do with the AP off, that I cant do by simply holding the trimmer or collective brake....and when the maneuver is done, i let go of the trimmer and brake, the heli goes completely stable...you finish your wild maneuver and you are still as out of control in level flight as you were a minute ago when you were doing loops....

 

...oh well, AP usage is way off topic anyways...this point has been proven in the trimmer threads and in the "collective brake, and when to use it" thread...

 

 

Obeying just that will get you all the way with the Black Shark ;)

 

I listened to his words, forgot about the AP when flying around, especially when on VA server w/o combat and it really is the best chopper of them when it comes to agility.

 

You have to have your senses trained to it, so do it in a non-combat environment first.

Actually the only time when I engage the APs is when targeting, planning or following routes while I do the before mentioned. It eases the workload a lot when used for the right thing. Trying to dodge something oncoming with ALL APs on is a no go that you will soon accept as undoable,

a mistake to think it could work. Have a button programmed to at least engage FD to be able to slam that thing around and run for cover... anything else comes afterwards once you are safe. Having the option to do what Davis0079 says is even better, but you need the buttons available on your stick or Hotas, if you haven't, then as said, at least get FD on a button to quickly disengage/override all AP channels with the flick of a switch, turn/dodge and then "maybe" disengage FD to your liking.

 

The most deadliest Beast in whole DCS is the Kamov when flown and handled properly IMHO.

 

...and I can eat my Pizza while doing so.... can you eat a Pizza while scanning the area with the A-10C ? I bet you can't ! :D

 

Understanding the AP system is the A & O of flying the Kamov successfully :smarts:

 

Once that is mastered, the "fly-home-damaged" part is way easier, still, it sometimes goes wrong due to the environment and battle you are in, but at least you have the skills now to use your chance to do so.

Edited January 26, 2014 by BitMaster

[DieHard]

Since, posting my top of thread question, I have been doing better.

 

Once, got back rtb, but not a FARP, all the way back with no hydraulics and landed it, repair, refuel and rearm and off again.

 

Second time, had no hydraulics, one engine, no Shkvl, no ABRIS, no wheels, again took the seacoast back to the main base, landed it, got repaired and off again.

 

Usually I fly in Multiplayer with only the F1 view and maybe have a working F10 map. Other day I had all the F-views. I got hit. I managed to fly it battle damaged a ways, radar altimeter was out. I took a look in F2 view. LOL! My whole tail was blown off. I was doing pretty good until I took a look, then lost control. Did not make it back to base. I saw a guy fly his Shark battle damaged the same way and landed on the ramp where he took off from; it was an ordeal, him flying back to base.

 

I'm getting better at it.

 

Thanks for the tips.

Edited February 3, 2014 by DieHard

[DieHard]

Try flight director mode. It's better than AP off. You will have some more stability but still full control.

 

I used to fly like that, but now I just hold down the trimmer if I'm manoeuvring. Being able to 'lock' the helicopter in the assigned attitude is really usefull.

 

I fly in FD mode almost all the time.

 

I trim like BS1 did it and that Russian copter pilot does it on the YouTube video landed his copter on a Russian CV. He is constantly hitting the trimmer button, the clicking can be heard.

 

When I use it, like hovering or flying low over the sea, I lock the altitude autopilot. But I usually do not use the Collective Brake Assign Altitude, but freehand the collective. I usually am pretty low and fast. I can approach a SAM if I stay below 10 meters, pop up quick, kill 'em with rockets, get back down. Tyger used to have pretty good mission scenarios.

[Maurs]

...and I can eat my Pizza while doing so.... can you eat a Pizza while scanning the area with the A-10C ? I bet you can't !

 

Hell yeah, brother, and with a lot less stress! There's nothing more relaxing than orbiting slowly with AP-Alt on, 20 miles away from the target, 25,000 feet in the air, TGP slew controls in one hand and beer in the other, marking off AAA and SAMs!