Kuky

Well I am no expert on the ear physiology its basically ear drum vibrating, and there's some bones connected to it that vibrate because of it, transfer the sound vibrations via some hair to the nerves or something that ultimately goes to the brain. If you meant the hair on the outside of the ear then no, they are there just as natural defense for dirt to get trapped instead of going into your ear, they don't do anything with sound capture or transmitting it to the brain. And by properly I mean do the experiment by eliminating other sources of information the person should be exposed to, anything beside sound itself, and no movement. That's all there is to it.

hairs are not sensors, ear drum is. Please do the experiment I did and let me know your findings, but make sure you do it properly.

I have managed to get most fluent DCS by: - see attached image for nVidia driver settings - V-sync in DCS is turned on - limiting FPS in DCS to 38 in SavedGames/DCS/Config/Autoexec.cfg This gets me very smooth gameplay when FPS is higher than 38 (in DCS it actually shows as 39) and only gets bit stutter when flying low over Las Vegas where my FPS drops into 20's

- I used impartial person (my wife who isn't into gaming at all didn't know anything what I wanted to do, so her brain couldn't try to compensate or make up things to mess the experiment outcome) - I eliminated influence of eyesight (to concentrate on hearing only) - I did not tell my wife where I will be moving the mobile phone (sound source) as if I did, her brain would know where to expect it, hence the third source (the brain expectation or memory) was excluded also. this all means she had to concentrate on her hearing only, and without any movement, to determine where the sound is coming from, and as I expected she couldn't tell when the phone was moved from front to above her head, based on hearing only.

You can't because MiG-29 MFD in reality works only as HUD repeater so ED have changed this to match the reality.

No, I haven't set my mind based on my own anecdotal evidence, what I have done is have a theory which proved to be right by doing an experiment, which is always the right way (as long as the way you an experiment is correct and you are excluding all other factors)

Sorry but not correct... I have just done an experiment with my wife to prove I am right. I made her sit in a chair and told her not to move and keep her eyes closed... I was holding my mobile and let it ring and I kept moving it around her head, in particular I want to see if she can tell when I moved the mobile from in front, to right above her head (keeping the distance same) and guess what... she couldn't tell it was above her head. When I asked her where the phone is, she pointed in front of her and said "somewhere there". Reason for this is, without any extra info she could get (no eye sensors and no secondary position to make sound volumes comparison) both hear ears heard pretty much the same volumes on both ears, and as I started with phone in front of her, and she heard same sound volumes when phone was above her head, she assumed it must be in front again... that frequency change and stuff you guys think matters so much (as if we have hearing as good as bats) do not matter to our ears at all. Only because we are able to move the hear, even so slightly, we are able to get different levels of sound change, hence we can tell straight away if we are looking more or less towards the sound source, and that is all there is to it. Keeping fully still and sound source not changing, we can only approximately tell side on which sound is coming from but definitely not pin-point it exactly as you guys think we can, to be able to do this, once more, you need at least one more reference (either memory, or sight, or another listening position). If you heard for the first time some sound you have no idea what it is (you hear this sound for the first time in your life) and you only stay still, you will NOT be able to tell where its coming from or how far it is, you can only tell side its coming from (left/right) and until you start to move hear around, you will not be able to pin-point the sound source). You guys still want to believe otherwise, be my guest, I think I have done enough to prove I am in fact right about this.

No, I meant real life. I'll repeat one more time... you can only know approximate (side) sound location until you move head to get more information from different position, and compare them. This is exactly the same principle as triangulation.

And that is exactly why I say this is not true, and why in real life you have to keep moving your head to know exact direction of the sound, that is, if the sound is stationary. If the sound source moves fairly quickly around you, sound source movement replaces your head movement. And I have said, you can't know sound is above you (without any sound source movement) with your eyes closed and no head movement, until you start to move your head and start getting more cues as to what sound levels are in each ear when position of the ear is changed relative to the sound.

I am not doubting at all that stereo headphones can't simulate directional sound. In fact DCS already does that, if you move head in game left, you will get more volume on left side and vice versa but this is done with headset only, and when head movement in game matches 1:1 head movement in real life, which is what VR like OR should bring. I was saying that things like 5.1 in VR (speaker system, not headset) can't simulate it fully because they are missing sound coming from top/bottom (5.1 speakers are positioned in same horizontal plane, so you can't get more volume from top space when you move head upwards, from speakers that are staying in same position). Maybe, I am not explaining myself well enough, but anyway, to make it short (now), I will say that good directional sound is definitely achievable with good stereo headset, as long as the game sound engine takes into account what your ears should hear at any given position.

S-24 rockets won't kill many targets, so for me B-8 rockets are more versatile and still quite accurate... and gun is also enough for few light vehicles.

Alright, made a mistake there when I said you can tell distance from sound level alone. You got me there.

You are missing the plot as that is exactly what I am saying, the direction of sound is only determined from sound level difference between the two ears, but only if the head is moved (you must move the head first after you hear the sound, to see how sound level changes as your ears focus on listening from different direction). If you don't move your head, you can know approximately if sound is more towards left or right side, but you will not know the direction exactly until you compare what you hear when changing head rotation (or location)

For source direction only, yes amplitude difference between 2 ears is used. How rest of sound source is determined (distance) comes from echoes, knowing sound type (or what makes it, which if known we know approximately how loud the sound from that source is, and so on), and this is where sound effects and good sound engine kicks in.

You mean: "The auditory system uses several cues for sound source localization, including time- and level-differences between both ears, spectral information, timing analysis, correlation analysis, and pattern matching." Sure, it says level difference, spectral information would be probably used for knowing if sound is far or near (if far there will be some echo as sound bounces back from other objects and echo is not much lover then original sound) and that timing they talk about (well they use it twice if you haven't noticed) I find bit questionable as ears distance is very small. How long would the delay be? EDIT: its around 0.5 of a millisecond... I doubt human ear is sensitive enough to tell this difference... maybe bets can? The correlation and patter is nothing but person moving head (or animals that can moving ears) to get stronger levels and therefore can pin point the direction of the source, and using memory what you've learned before about different sound sources. Look, its enough for you to know that you only have 2 sound sensors and by definition this is a "stereo mode". To get more info on the sound, the 2 sensors have to be re positioned, and as you do that sound level and tones change. But you are not able to tell sound distance alone from ears, you need to have other information to tell distance (you can tell if its far or close yes, but not how much far, as sound level at higher level further away will sound same as sound of lover level closer. Sound effects like time delay helps, but only when used in combination with other sensors... your eyes (in game you can see explosion and time delay will trigger the sound coming to you, we already have this in DCS) but if you were to close your eyes, and just hear the sound, you won't be able to tell this... well there is things like some echo again, or rumbling which sound effects can bring, but it's still in stereo.

It is that simple. And using time difference? really? at that short distance that your ears make? please... The only reason headset is not as good to determine sound source is because no matter which way you turn your head, the sound is always coming from same place. This is why they use some software to change sound to give it different "feeling". Life is in good ol' stereo. :)

Well that is just an effect. It tries to mimic the different sounds you would hear from different directions, but it still isn't anything more than 2 sound sources, hence stereo. Again, you have only 2 sound sensors, and the only way to locate the sound source is by turning hear to pin point it (by comparing sound volume in each ear)... also people use eyes to "verify" where the sound is coming from. Try closing your eyes and you'll see what I'm talking about.

No I haven't. But I think everyone can test something to see if I am right or not (that there is no such thing as more than stereo in real life. Have someone sit in a chair... put a cover over their eyes so they can't see anything, then have something creating a sound right in front of them and have it moved so that it goes above them (keeping the distance the same and always right at the center - not moving it close to one ear) and I think, they should not be able to tell if the object is moved above them. Actually I will want to try this myself. PS: if you want to test this, make sure you don't tell them what you will do and where you will move the sound source... they need to be able to sit still completely and guess where the source is moving.

There is no such thing as more than stereo sound in reality. You have 2 ears only and 2 ear drums. The way you can tell where the sound is coming from or how far it is is based on sound level left and right ear drum hears, there is nothing more to it... you hear a sound, you turn a head a bit and you locate the sound by sensing sound levels as you turn.

er... well its definitely not a bargain :music_whistling: but what the heck, you live only once... I think these VR products won't be evolving as quick as we'd think, so getting a high end VR product like OR that has native supported in DCS, seems like a good "investment". It'll be a few months till we get it... so time will tell. :)

Edit this thread and add a poll to see how many have pre-ordered :D

I am a sucker... it is quite expensive (also considering I will most likely also end up getting new mobo/cpu/ram later on when I get it) but I couldn't resist and just ordered one for myself. Y'LOO :D Waiting will be till around June by the looks of it :(

I think by the time VR gets good enough (high resolution and PC's able to run it fluidly) I will get old man with bad eyes, and my life will have gone by. I am very disappointed.

I am not happy about the bundle options also, I don't need the 2 stupid games or that controller (I could even go without fancy case) :mad:

I have to ask for those that have dk2... how do you change from desktop monitor to dk2 display? Is it automated or you have to switch displays manually every time you want to use VR / dk2?