wormeaten

You should buy 4K TV, sweet spot 43". Kidding but not completely. Todays 4K TV is good with low input lag so could be used as a 4K monitor at 60Hz and price is twice lower than 43" 4K monitor based on same display with only real benefit DP connection. VR vs 4K 43" or 49" is depending on your preferences. VR you have better immersion and real 3D experience but lower picture quality what bring some other issues in gameplaying like less visibility and recognition problems. 43" 4K display TV or Monitor is completely opposite. Quality of the picture is much better, better visibility and recognition, more details, multiple usages for gaming and working. Larg screen has better immersion but not that good as VR. Its steel looking true window only larger one so FOV is less than VR but not much but it is a window not binocular. 43" 4K is like 4x 1080p 22" monitors. So answer to your question depend only on your personal preferences and compromises. whatever you chose you to have to compromise only in the different way. Good luck.

True and that is my point. Eye tracking mod for Vive cost 200$ what is more than reasonable price for performance enhancement. So for all this technology already exist just need to be implemented. Vive got it and Pimax8K will have it too. so its already here in 2018. True as well but Pimax8KX is coming out in q4 2018. 4K per eye give you 25PPD native resolution but DCS right now only can run 4K on single display around 45 FPS what is not enough for VR. Could work under ASW but for two displays GPU need double resources so this is like it is run in 4K on a single display with 20 FPS. Pimax8K is 4K display per eye but with downscaled resolution at 14PPD. Yes SDE is best so fare what prove your theory but is is somewhere on maximum what today's GPU can run without supersampling. All of this is connected, this new displays with high PPI are capable for higher resolutions as well. Goal for VR to be pleasent is 30 PPD and 60 PPD will be ultimate goal near RL. Pimax8KX is near that goal. These new displays are not ready for mass production and it is questionof the price. Also, it is the question of the justify to implement more expensive parts without proper need for it. I'm not questioning technical characteristics and benefit from it but it is not realistic to expect it before Gen3 VR and for that display is just one part of the VR puzzle. For example, there are some other issues. Eye tracking is definitely one of it even with additional 200$ will double up performances what is 2 to 3 time less than additional GPU. In the end, it is beneficial for us consumers. But this raise question of lens quality. What is the point of foveated rendering and eye tracking if lens sweet spot is small and lens itself make a blurry picture out of the center and that is the trick with Oculus Rift CV2 prototype. There eye tracking is used for the focus of the far and near objects but it still depends on the sweet spot of the lens because it does not have X Y eye tracking the only Z. Also will be interesting to see a lens on Pimax8K and his 200 FOV and how will look when you check your peripheral vision with just eye moving on a side. All this stuff is connected and some answers we could get even in next few months.

There is no difference and all this need implementation by ED inside DCS. My point is we already have hardware solutions for hands and with reasonable price, Leapmotion is around 50$, but without proper support from DCS not working well. Maybe will work after VIVE controllers implementation because Leapmotion has support as Steam VR controller. Maybe someone who already owns Leapmotion should test it already.

Good news but there is a problem of price and profitability for mass production. Another aspect is can hardware now capable to run such content. Point is SDE is just one part of the puzzle and PPI is a factor which affects it. This only eliminates SDE but not resolution or better say PPD. For example, CV! and Vive are close to this 400PPI with and around 10 PPD. Pimax4K got 800PPI but around 12 PPD. Oddissay, WMR, Vive PRO 600PPI and around 14PPD. These numbers are proven with multiple reviews and true lens screenshots. Pimax5K will have 600PPI and 17PPD and Pimax8K will have 800PPI and around 17PPD and that will stretch hardware allready. The top model which is now in developing is Pimax8KX with 800PPI and around 25PPD but to be honest we don't have capable GPU to run in this quality with decent above 45FPS. There is no in near future GPU capable to run such VR content. We could hope to some eyetracking and foveated rendering and GPU per eye technology will be implemented to help processing rendering. So in best case, we will benefit from it in next five years not earlier. This is good but VR is not depending only on Displays quality.

Good for those who didn't believe me that PPI is a �major reason for SDE. Finally, prove is here just check the picture.

Any card with HDMI 2.0 is compatible. I think both cards have HDMI 2:0. Performance does not depend only on GPU. It is GPU and software demand so you will always improve performance lowering details or not forcing high super sampling. To find your sweet spot with details will be a combination of compromises. There is a guy who using Pimax4K with 1050ti in DCS so that means it is possible to run DCS with 1060/RX 580. Pimax4K have similar native resolution 1280x1440 per eye. Here is video true lens.

Exactly. I cover this topic multiple times on this forum. I'll be short and Google is your best friend. True Pimax4K gyro you covering Roll Pitch and Yaw. LED inside ping pong ball is a DIY substitute for PSmove controller and with PS Eye camera handling X, Y, Z moves using PSmoveservice which is recognized as SteamVR controllers. For more details use google. This is only for 6DoF and it is chip upgrade. Track IR is not good for VR because of 1:1 move ratio, limited tracking FOV will make you sick inside VR. Prove of concept. Driver4VR Ping pong ball DIY It is also a solution with Kinect 1. Working with Kinect 2 too but it is more expensive. If you are interested this is good starting point go in deeper. Google is your best friend.

Meanwhile I found this interesting video but I get impresionit is made to fast without much spend time on Oddisay. So watch it, take it with reserve and be patient with cichlidfan.

Here is a good review from a Driving simmer and Vive owner. There is some good screen shoots true lenses and comparison of the details. Driving simmer has the same need for some details as we flight simmer's doo, after all, check it for your self.

cichlidfan, take my advice. I notice from multiple reviews right first impressions disappointed from previous Rift or Vive users. Even for Vive PRO. But after sometime when they use it and then go back to previous VR realize a real difference. Take your time as long as you need, get used to it and make fine tuning to find your sweet spot. After that go back to Rift and then make the conclusion. Cheers m8.

Looking forward to your review. I hope. :thumbup:

There is DIY 6DoF for Pimax 4K made from pingpongball and LED simulating PS move and using PSmoceService for it. And it is work also there is versionwith kinect.

One thing is for sure. The picture is sharper and clearer. So it is expected to be better any way. We have to adapt to the limitations and maybe think about to use some alternatives. For example, for tracking we should use Opentrack true SteamVR controls for tracking. In Opentrack we will be able to set zoom axes not only 1:1 so could be 1:2 or 1:3 so we will be able to zoom in anything as we need for clear vision. I know someone will tell it is not realistic, yes but it is not real vision quality as well so this will compensate that way.

To compare you should do it with same setingsbut with supersampeling set to 1.0 it is only way to realy compare.

So dogbite that means we got all we need. If it is everything already implemented and we need a just minor update from ED to implement it in DCS. It is here, available just need to be implemented no matter from who but it could be achieved in this year without much pushing from us consumers. That is the biggest beauty of Pimax. They will push things in right direction. Competition too. Who will not join the dance will get out of the race and that's it.

Just calculating. Vulcan is actually based on AMD Mantis technology so Liquid VR should work because it is part of the Vulcan. Will be really interesting to see is it and how will this work. And yea, I agree we need to see benchmarks first before switching to some new technology but the point is technology is already here for full 4K per eye at 90 FPS and it is affordable. Just need to be implemented and used. Nvidia technology need to be implemented in DCS first.

Vulcan has LiquidVR support. So will be interesting if this will working in DCS already after Vulcan support implementation. It is expected that after April will get stabilized GPU market and drop the price on starting point where RX 580 is 200$ not 450$ like it is now. So you can get 2x RX 580 for 400$ what is 200$ less than GTX 1080 ti but with 30% better performances minimum.

Will be also great to see future DCS support for Vulcan. This could go in favor of AMD graphic card because they have significantly better performance in Vulcan than Nvidia. I will like to see some first benchmarks and Nvidia AMD comparison in Vulcan performances. I think Vulcan also have Liquid VR technology implemented. But all this just suggesting that things in VR world moving forward in the right direction and Pimax 8K makes it possible to implement it. Without Pimax 8K all this work from DCS will be pointless and now it is just around the corner.

If this delay is because seeking perfection all delay is forgiven. First, we need hardware support for FR. Pimax is first who planing progress in that field and good thing is that they will not focus on that, they will just doing support for it. Eye tracking and FR will be made by third party probably same company which will do the same for Vive. Vive doing the same but Eye tracking and FR have 60% less effect on 110° VR than on 200° VR. That we can expect be ready for commercial use in minimum one year or even more. From DCS perspective it is only and logical step to increase VR performances. DCS is highly demandable for hardware resources so it is need everything that can help. Pimax 8KX will be capable to do 4K per eye native resolution without SDE on 90Hz. So with eye tracking, FR and proper 2x SLI/CF for VR where we use single GPU per eye even with 2x GTX 1070 will be adequate to run DCS full details on 4K 90Hz. (Pimax 8KX will have double DP connectors). One thing to compare. Todays Rift and Vive run at around 10.8 PPD (Pixel Per Degree) and Pimax8KX will run at 25.6 PPD. For all of this to run properly technology exist already for years and now will be supported for a first time with some VR. So next step is for Games developers to implement it. There will be no excuses to not to do it now. Even from the price perspective, this will be doable. You will need rig based on i5 8600K, 16Gb RAM with 2x GTX 1070 and Pimax 8KX. With today's prices for such rig and Pimax 8KX with hand tracking and eye tracking module should cost around 2500$ but worth every cent and will be not much more than it is today what we need for dissent performance on CV1 or Vive. Future is already here and it is bright. Pimax 8K could even direct Vive in the right direction soon too so we will get an even brand competitor.

@hansangb from your experience and as fact that VR experience is all in one not just displays but the tracking as well. If we take in consideration tracking as major part of VR experience same as the picture this prove how Pimax5K/8K will be competitive in hardware consumption with Vive or Rift but need to be a version with Vive Lighthouse tracking. So the conclusion here is there is no place for concern about hardware requirements. No need for much more than today's top VR systems. That is the only thing I was trying to confirm based on some fact, calculation and personal experience from some veteran VR user. Thanks m8.

No problem m8. In essence, I agree with you and we are on the same track. In VR everything is based on Virtual. It is all how you as an individual got your experience. It is hard to present it to the other but we are trying here to compare some technical aspect to better understand it and try to imagine how could look like inside. So tell us little more about your experience with tracking and if you can compare it with Vive or Rift? Vive PRO is in essence same as Samsung regarding in-game resource drain. The only difference is in tracking as they are different technology. So let's stay here focused on a picture and your PC in-game performances, how much FPS you can get in DCS. You can tell us more precise how your DCS working in Samsung, how much FPS you got on what PC configuration? Thanks m8.

A little correction 2560x1440 is per eye and Vive PRO is per eye 1440x1600. This is exactly like Samsung WMR. This proves it is possible to run. Again because less magnification on lenses Pimax5K picture for the end user will look more sharpened crisp with less noticeable pixelization so less need for supersampling. So Pimax with 2560x1440x1.0=3.686.400. Vive PRO or Samsung Oddisey have 1440x1600x1.5=3.456.000. We can see this is a similar number and just need to ask someone with Samsung Oddisay what experience they got. Remeber also guys in essence Brain warp if I simplify explanation will give us 90fps experience by using only 45fps resources per eye or if you want 90fps per 2560x1440 resolution what is doable with today's hardware.

I know that you are concerned about performance. The point with Pimax, I will take here 5K as the lowest quality product, is that will give you better user experience quality in 1440p per eye on 1.0 than Vive or Rift today with 1.5. That is the point and even today we got hardware (1080 and 1080 ti) who can run DCS on 1.5 just because of this technical details I mentioned before. So as Pimax8K will run 1440p per eye as the native resolution will need exactly the same resources only will increase the quality of a picture by using some advantages of better technology in a similar way as oversampling but without impact on computer performance. Pimax8KX is a little different story because will run 4K per eye and here, for now, will only Foveated rendering bring room for more performance but Pimax is working on Eye tracking support and for example, Rift is not. So Eye tracking with Foveated rendering will significantly increase performance. So space for improvement performances is hereby VR hardware manufactorer. Now is turn on software companies to implement it same as hand tracking so we could use our hands inside virtual cockpit same way as we will in reality.

From the perspective of flight sim user, even Pimax 5K is a huge step forward and the better choice than announced Vive PRO for few reasons. I will explain this. For us, Virtual pilots especially combat virtual pilots you need to check your 6. Today any 110° FOV VR have a limitation in realistic head movement. Yes 1:1 movements great if you driving car or civil airplane where you don't have to worry for sneaky enemies behind you. In DCS you have to check your 6 frequently and for do that in 1:1 motion you have to turn your head in unnatural way almost full 180°. In real life, you will combine your head and eye movement so you will need just half of this turn and rest of it you will do by eye. This will be Pimax5/8K advantage for us Combat virtual pilots. Another advantage which is already seeing on last Pimax video is better and more clear picture. Not just because of the screen. Most of you forget that Pimax lenses have 30% less magnification. What did that mean? A display has its native PPI and Native resolution. PPI is essence for SDE and native resolution for PPD of the VR. On virtual SDE and sense of the resolution, the huge impact has this lens magnification. So in 110° FOV VR, we have higher magnification by 30% what is actually increase SDE and reducing PPD by third more than 200° FOV VR like Pimax5K. So if we compare PPI and native resolution on Pimax5K and Vive PRO is similar by display specifications but end result goes in favor to Pimax5K just because of this lens magnification. So for some dedicated DCS user, even Pimax5K without lighthouse and just inside out tracking will be adequate for 6DoF head tracking and occasional Onward or similar VR experiance. Pimax8K will have a little better picture because of more quality display and significant higher PPI which eliminating SDE almost completlly. Remeber only Pimax8KX will be full and real 4K per eye.

Wags, tell me please how far we are in DCS to use hands to interact with cockpit using Leapmotion or some other hand tracking device or glove?