DeadMeat

There's a workaround that lets you use regular toggles and covers without additional hardware. If you only care about the state of the switch in DCS and not the cover itself, you can do a digital read of your physical switch state and send instructions for both cover and switch actuation in sequence. you need to monitor in-game cover and switch states to sequence and trigger the open/close and toggle events. DCS-BIOS lets you do both. I use the trick for the covered Hornet fire push buttons and it works great. Same logic in some form would apply for covered toggle switches.

A-10C (Warthog) grip: mil-spec trim switch upgrade Here's my take on the trim switch mod for the Warthog with added details about wiring for those interested. The clickity is much improved (in my opinion), but it is not an easy mod and I haven't solved a few issues with fit, so be warned :huh: I installed the same OTTO T4-0016 trim switch that I put in the Hornet grip only I painted the hat gray to match original switch: The switch should be water tight but I masked it off anyways before painting it. One layer Tamiya white spray primer, two layers Tamiya AS-7 gray, two layers matte clear varnish to seal it in: To install the mod, you'll need to say goodbye to the warranty :bye_3: cross your fingers, open up the grip, and unplug the trim, DMS, TMS and pickle switches from the PCB: Remove the switches from the front/face piece by carefully pushing the tab on each side and pushing the whole switch out from the back. Unscrew and remove the center bracket from the front piece. Dremel out the hole in the front piece to fit the larger OTTO trim switch. A lot of material will have to go: Cut out the right side of the center bracket until the trim switch fits. Be sure to leave the screw posts intact so you can put the grip together again. I used a hack saw here to quickly remove a big chunk and then a dremel to get to the final bits off: Desolder the wires from the stock TM trim switch to leave their full length intact. Cut the OTTO trim switch wires down to 5 cm (2") and connect them with the corresponding TM wires: The Warthog wire colors are identical to the TM Hornet trim switch. Note that you'll need to connect two OTTO common wires to the single TM common wire, e.g. blue and dark green to the TM yellow. The unused OTTO wires and the mesh wire can be removed completely. Cut away material from the tabs on the right side piece to fit the trim switch: Put the switches back in the front piece and click it back onto the left side piece. Tuck the trim switch wires below the trim switch and snake them around the back between the TMS and DMS: Plug everything back into PCB and close the grip back up carefully to avoid pinching any wires. Unless you fried the PCB, or broke the grip structure in the process you should be golden. Only one small issue persists: the top cover wobbles a bit when you press the trim switch. This is mainly because we had to remove so much material from the center bracket that otherwise holds it in place. I use hot glue to keep it secure - not a very nice solution, but it works... Have fun and don't say I didn't warn ya :smilewink:

Good job. It really makes a difference when it works out :)

Nice dremel work there :) The Warthog grip is not really suited for the T4 trim switch since you remove so much internal structure to make it fit that the top part of the stick becomes unstable. I have it working keeping a cut down center bracket in place, but it is a little wobbly right now. I'm testing to see what works best to keep the grip top stable without having to resort to strong epoxies to keep it together. I mean I'd like to be able to take it apart again for service!

I already have an angled neck piece for my Cougar so I'd want the straight version of the base :) Keep at it dude

A-10C (Warthog) grip: mil-spec button upgrade Thank you, that's an excellent comparison. Really shows the differences. Totally agree that P8 are preferred - if you can source them :) they can be hard to find. P1s are readily available on e.g. Mouser (or cheaper places if you're in the US) I will still recommend them if anyone is interested in upgrading their TM grip - warthog or hornet. Not cougar. Just don't. Buy a warthog and save yourself the pain. P1s will fit the warthog "pretty fine" - with a few caveats: The pickle/thumb switch will tilt slightly outwards without modification to either switch solder lugs or internal grip structure (very little grinding required) I live with the tilt :) Index finger switch has negligible tilt - it will protrude more than stock however, but not enough to be an issue in practice. Pinkie switch fits fine - protrudes a little more than stock, but the lever below is angled away so it doesn't get in the way (unlike the Cougar) Lever switch - fits P1 but you do have to grind/sand the lever a bit to make it fit, and dial the set screw all the way back. In conclusion - only the lever really requires some real modification to fit P1.. But still we're talking a bit of sanding. Nothing that compromises the structure of the grip. (My) recommended switch list for reference (repost) Pickle/thumb: P1-11121 (4 lbf red) Lever: P1-11122 (4 lbf black) Index: P1-11118 (2.5 lbf gray) Pinkie: P1-11118 (2.5 lbg gray) Reposting my pictures here from another thread on the topic. Top part, showing slight tilt of pickle switch and protrusion of index finger switch: Pinkie switch protrusion and modified lever - sanding is not visible. Lever sanded on the sides facing the grip. Check the fit periodically to avoid removing too much.

None of the the trim hats I bought had binding issues. Also, I found the actuation force to be fine with and without gloves. Once I had the switch mounted in the grip it felt perfectly fine. But sure, it is a good idea to decide if you like it or not before you start taking the dremel to the grip. It is pretty much a oneway mod :)

I did - and it's a truly tragic story. Basically you can upgrade the whole throttle panel with OTTO buttons and Honeywell switches. You can also upgrade the grip switches and hijack the panel back light and control it with DCS-BIOS directly. Lemme put something together on that and get back to you Short story: P1-71122 or P1-71622 for both buttons. You will need to enlarge the mounting hole a bit.

I don't think anyone has shard the "exact" part numbers to replicate the real grip. The OTTO buttons discussed are plausible milspec analogues - a massive improvement over the stock buttons - but not necessarily the correct ones if that is what you're after. Here's what I used in the Warthog upgrade: pickle/thumb: P1-11121 lever: P1-11122 index: P1-11118 pinkie: P1-11118 Note that I went for 2.5 lbs buttons for index and pinkie buttons for comfort and the full 4 lbs for the pickle and lever buttons.

Absolutely true for the Cougar stick. That thing is a nightmare :doh: But not so for the Warthog. You could dremel off a bit of the rib on top to make the pickle button fit better, but it is not really necessary. Here's a shot where you can see P1s fitted to the pinkie and lever buttons. It is a tight fit down there. Looks like I actually extended the wires a bit, not sure why. If you're careful it shouldn't be necessary. You do need to file down the lever some if you do that button. It is not visible after you mount it. Take it in small steps until it fits.

I don't see the issue. OTTO P1 will fit all push buttons on the warthog. They will poke out slightly more than P8, but it is negligible. I find it is no problem at all. Massive improvement over the stock buttons. Top part, P1 for the index finger button pokes out a bit but it'll fit. P1 for the pinkie button. It protrudes only slightly. It works great. You can even put a P1 for the lever (just sand the lever a bit on the bottom to make it fit. That really works well. P8 buttons will fit even better but P1s do the job fine in my opinion :)

They called one of mine for "Undercarriage Selector Switch".. Paid 40 bucks for it. They pop up once in a while

Fantastic. Love the mode switch mechanism and how you included the 4-position switch for the air-con! The details make the difference :)

Not sure, they're super thin and flimsy. Prone to breaking if you stare too hard at them.. If you just need to extend the existing wiring a little bit to cover for mistakes, any thin mounting wire will do. It is not carrying a significant load. When you remove the old buttons you should do it leaving as much of the existing wire as possible. Ideally just desolder wires at the switch. I've only ever had to extend wires for the pinky on the throttle after a few too many f* ups

Not sure, would have to measure to be sure but I looks like a regular 6x6x6 tact switch.. If you get the size right any cheap switch will do. If you want to go for industrial spec, try Omron branded ones. Get your caliper out before you order anything :)

Close the grip up first. Place the spring in the recess and push the lever into place on top. You have to do it just right so the pin can go through it and the lever to hold it in place.

I realize I didn't share the ebay link for the trim switch: https://www.ebay.com/itm/381677953240 I've put the mod through heavy testing over the past week and it absolutely rocks. Trimming is very crisp and there's no more wrong presses down+left in the pattern. Definitely recommended!

F/A-18C grip: mil-spec trim switch upgrade Cheers guys, I made another little OTTO upgrade to the Hornet stick. It was a bit trickier this time. I wasn't happy with the feel of the stock trim switch, so I swapped it for a mil-spec OTTO T4-0016 I found on eBay. This particlar P/N is used in the F-15 which has a pretty similar grip to the Hornet.. So close enough: The T4 has great tactile feedback and is gated 4-way ensuring that you only trim in the desired direction. You can't change direction without returning to center. A general word of caution if you decide to try this yourself - you'll definitely void the warranty and you can pretty easily ruin your stick if you're not careful. So, how to do it? Disassemble the stick (see earlier in this thread) and remove the TM trim switch. It is fastened with hot glue and taps on the back of the top piece, just like the pickle button. Use a screwdriver to push them in and take it out through the front. Unplug it carefully from the main board to remove the whole thing. As you can see in this comparison, the OTTO switch is much wider and goes deeper on the backside: This is the main challenge with this upgrade; accommodating a much larger switch. The hole in the front plate is quite narrow: Enlarge the hole until the OTTO switch fits. Leave just a sliver of the lip in place. If you get cold feet at this point I suppose you could reinstall the TM trim switch with a lot of hot glue :) Note that the OTTO switch has a "locating pin" on the side that you can just grind off to make it fit through the hole. Unscrew the 3 screws that hold the back of the head in place, being careful to not lose the trigger springs. Once clear, you need to remove quite a bit of material from the stem piece, including the screw hole and part of the structure for the trigger. Just be careful not to go all the way into the trigger mount itself: You'll need to remove the screw tower feature from the back piece as well. Be careful not to Dremel right through the side. Reattach the back piece when done. On to the soldering! Here's the wiring for my switches: The full length of the OTTO wires will not fit so cut them down to around 6-7 cm and strip the ends. You can cut the steel wire completely down along with two of the redundant common wires, for example the red and the light green. We'll reuse the full length of the wires and plug harness from the TM switch so remove the hot glue sealing and unsolder them carefully. Match the wires according to the diagram and solder the harness together with the OTTO switch. Use very short pieces of shrink wrap to seal the joints without making them too rigid: Insert the OTTO switch through the front piece. It will extend so far back that you'll have to thread the wires behind the stem piece up over the trigger and back down the neck of the stick. This takes a bit of finaggeling to get right: Plug the wires back into the main board and close the stick back up. Be careful not to pinch any wire in the process as you do this. That's it. Enjoy the trimming! Here's a short and crude comparison between the stock and OTTO switch:

Yes, it is easy to open that thing up and mess around. Both plastic and metal takes well to a Dremel :) I have a few pictures here of the back side where you can see the mechanisms. They are slightly different: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=248097 The front side bezels are different in diameter (29,7 vs 26,2 mm) and the larger one for trim may interfere with the center screw (which is purely decorative - only the outer screws hold the front piece in place), the little jog below and the rib next to the weapons release switch.. Well, go ahead and try it :) would be interesting for a lot of people I think

Only difference I can tell between 27ET109-T and the more common 27ET61-T is that the former has integrated JANTXV diodes to avoid voltage transients when activating the coil. The rest of the specs look identical.

Thanks!

Regarding "beefier", I meant to refer to Honeywell TL series switches. I find that the 1-pole locking switches are noticeably looser than the 2-pole counterparts, comparing e.g. a 1TL1-3D with a 2TL1-D.. Both work fine, so it comes down to your own preference. ON-ON and ON-OFF circuitry doesn't matter if you run e.g. DCS-BIOS, it can handle both (in code or by how you choose to wire it). Only thing you have to watch out for is the type of locking and the direction, especially if you're dealing with momentary switches. There's very many different variants of the switches as I wrote - all sorts of terminations, poles, circuitry and generations of switches. If it looks the part and the locking mechanism is right, then you should be good. If you want the 8857/8858 series for the generator switches you should go for either the 8857K48, 8857K44 or the 8858K44 to get the right locking action. The TL-series has a round head, so you need one of the Eaton/Cutler-Hammer ones. 8855/8856 series would work as well, go for the 8855K8 or 8855K14 or 8856K8, 8856K14. Spot on. It pays to double check pictures and datasheets before you put money down for mil-spec :)

Yes, this is exactly what the new output does :) It is the actual backlight intensity parameter in the A10. So if you cut electrical power in the jet it goes to 0, even if console lights knob is set differently.

Check out \DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\LightSystem\LightSystem.lua

Whatever works for you :thumbup: To clarify, I was referring to your A10C.lua module in DCS BIOS (\Scripts\DCS-BIOS\lib\A10C.lua) - changing that will not affect MP. DCS BIOS is an add on script in the first place. I see they have added similar cockpit outputs to the Hornet module in the dcs-flightpanels branch of DCS-BIOS (though as an IndicatorLight function). They must not have gotten around to put it in for the Warthog yet.