Wicked.-

They're actually $20,000ea. for new old stock. No idea what a brand new one is.

lol touché! Point taken. Check out these photos. They're the best ones I can find with decent resolution. Is this what you're seeing? The second is from the Smithsonian. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298293175302237985/ https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/2001-1822hjpg Instead of trying to zoom in just go to the actual links.

This is always a good suggestion but not effective in this case. I've flown DCS in VR for two years now beginning with the CV1, Pimax 5K+, S, Reverb and now the Index. I know every tweak there is to get an HMD to look as good as possible. The problem is not with the HMD though it effects some more than others. The Reverb, having the highest resolution natively shows the least impact. Then the S, then Index, followed by the Gen 1 units. The difference is stark when you compare the Viper to any other modules MFD's. I've been obsessing over this for a couple weeks now, at least since either the Oct 10th or 31st updates. I can't pin down which. In these updates there were changes to the cockpit textures and canopy lighting effects. Since then, readability for me has gotten much worse on the MFD's. But other problems have crept up as well that also effects the MFD's. Namely the lighting in the pit and very bad aliasing. On release I was able to run my normal SteamVR settings that I was happy with in the Hornet, plus I was able to turn on MSAA to 2x without a frame hit. This was needed because the Viper has much more aliasing than the Hornet. Since those updates, I can't run those settings at all. I've had to back down on the SteamVR settings so low that MSAA @ 2x can't overcome the amount of aliasing. These are two separate issues though. The second only enhancing the original problem. The MFD's do not look anything like the real Block 50CJ MFD's. That's just a fact. Even on the Reverb. There's no way the Air Force would accept the pilots having to lean in and squint to see the MFD's. I'm pretty sure the 16 was designed to keep the pilots head out of his crotch as much as possible :D For the second issue, the lighting is jacked up. If you look at the screen shots below you'll see that the sun is on my nose and yet the bootwell is lit up like the sun is shinning directly in there. I don't think the black sheepskin seat covers are reflecting it.

In DCS VR tab, check the box for Force IPD and start with 51 in the box. It will make the cockpit bigger. Then simply adjust from there, higher numbers shrink the size of the pit, lower numbers make it bigger. 53 seems to be my magic number. When you get it right you'll know... :D

Yes, I am running motion smoothing. One thing you mentioned will make a huge difference in spotting targets at distance and is a setting that is non negotiable for me. Anisotropic Filtering needs to be set at 16x in DCS. Leave it application controlled in NVCP. AF cleans up images at distance but doesn't use any type of super sampling to do it so it does not put anywhere near the load on your system as PD or MSAA. I will turn pretty much every other setting down before I will touch AF. It will make a noticeable difference in visual quality. Otherwise, glad everything is looking better for you!

Are you still using 1.4 PD? I think it's your new prescription lol. I agree that the Hornet looks really good as well as the Mirage but I've got a mixed bag with the Viper. The HUD is fine for now but I've got terrible aliasing in most missions. Except 1 and that's the Dynamic Training Grounds mission. I don't know why but that mission is visually is stunning. The PG version anyway, I haven't flown the Caucasus version. But while the Viper looks best there (to me) the MFD's are still extremely hard to read. In every other mission I've flown, whether SP stock missions or Multi player the aliasing is horrible. It wasn't like this on release. I could use MSAA @ 2x along with my normal settings of 138/148 and PD at 1.0 with rock solid 45 frame rates. Flying the Dynamic Training grounds mission it looks like it did on release but without using MSAA. To Icebeat, the F-16C block 50CJ we have in DCS is a 4th Gen fighter designed for heads up combat. It is designed to be an extension of the pilot. I've said this before on another post but there is no way in hell the Air Force would accept the need for the pilot to lean forward and squint to read the MFD's. Period. I've seen the real MFD's, they are made to be as glare resistant as possible and as bright as possible. At max distance they are no more than 15-20" from the pilots eyes and are also designed to be viewed from any angle. They sit under a glare shield and even if the sun gets through, it doesn't make them less bright. The pilot simply moves his hand to block the glare. Watch the video of a ramp start in Iraq on a C model with color MFD's. That is what we should be seeing. We are not seeing an accurate simulation right now. Also, I've flown that other sim since it's original release, I've been in the same community with those guys for over 17 years. Regardless of how the job gets done, making it as close to the look and feel of the real aircraft and systems has been their only goal. I can fly that program (and do) with the MFD's, instruments and gauges exported through YAME to my 27" touchscreen and they look stunning. They also look stunning on one monitor, the current DCS Viper's don't look good on either. I'm not being an ass to DCS but trying to help them make the best Viper sim possible. To blame Lockheed Martin's cockpit design for poor VR graphics is rediculous and doesn't aid in solving an obvious problem. This is not asking for multiple 120's on 1 hard point!! :D I'm still amazed that not everyone is a fighter aircraft enthusiast lol.

Damn! Good answer NL!

Cool ramp start video in Iraq. At the end you see the MFD's power up. If you look at any video that shows the pilot in the cockpit you realize how small the pit really is. At max your eyes would be 18 to 20 inches from the MFD's. Besides, there's no way in hell the US Airforce would expect their fighter pilots to put their head down and lean in to see the MFD's. The F-16 is designed to be a heads up fighter which is also why the HOTAS is set up the way it is. To say you shouldn't expect to be able to read them without leaning or zooming in is utterly insane. If that were the case we'd have a shit ton of dead Viper pilots. I will say this, the video shows that when it comes to the rest of the cockpit graphics, ED nailed it...

The size of the cockpit is perfect for me at forced IPD set to 53. Other than the MFD clarity and HUD brightness I love the cockpit. Yesterday was the first time I've flown something different than the Viper since it's release. I'm glad you Reverb users are happy with the MFD's and HUD. That satisfaction is not universal when using another HMD or using a monitor. As is obvious from comments on this thread :D Normally I don't care for the pilot body because it gets in the way of switches in the 18 but I agree it's a must for the 16.

Simply comparing the Viper to the Hornet and Mirage tonight proved beyond a doubt there are graphical issues with the HUD and MFD's. Obviously if you zoom in they look great but you should be able to read them easily at a glance. The HUD in both the Hornet and Mirage are crystal clear. For a long time, reading the MPCD in the Hornet couldn't be done without zoom (at least in the CV1) but that had more to do with the angle at which you had to look to see it. It was low, out of the sweet spot. I'm not sure what changed but it got a lot better before I bought my Index. With the Mirage, I always had an issue reading the panels on the left and right consoles but as of tonight I don't even have to lean in to see them. So what's the difference? I think part of it is the cockpit camera may be out of focus. In other words, as you change your viewing distance by adjusting "cockpit camera view up, down, forward, back, left and right", it's not focusing to meet the distance from objects in the cockpit. Hopefully that makes sense. Or, it could be really bad textures. Regardless, the 16 currently has the worst looking cockpit textures of any module. Including FC3 aircraft. Something else I've noticed since the last updates. Upon release, I was using my standard settings for the Index which are about as high as can be run before FPS craters. I was flying the Hornet exclusively and without going in to all the SteamVR settings details I was not able to use MSAA @ 2x which I wanted because that was too much combined with my other settings. However, the day the Viper was released, I was able to keep my SteamVR settings AND turn on MSAA to 2x. In other words the Viper had less overhead at release. Although, it also had way more aliasing than the Hornet so I needed MSAA to clean some (but not all) of it up. Since the last update, all of that overhead is gone and I now have to take all of my SteamVR settings down and turn off MSAA to stay at 45 FPS. The aliasing is terrible now as well. Whatever was in the last patch or prior one to that has killed whatever optimization the Viper released with.

After more testing tonight I've confirmed there isn't anything wrong with my Index or computer. After trying every setting combination ever discussed on this thread, trying all the Windows tweaks listed above but not seeing any improvement to the Viper, I decided to fly the Hornet. I haven't touched it since the Vipers release. First I set my settings back to where they usually are which is 148% CR/138% DCS Steam App, 1.0 PD and no MSAA. I set my DCS IPD back to 58 from 53 in the Viper and launched the instant action free flight. Beautiful. It looks as good as ever. I can read all of the switches, gauges, DDI's and MPCD without so much as leaning in. Frame rates were rock solid at 45 with hardly any aliasing. After seeing this result I decided to dust off the M2000...... HOLY SHIT!! It's GORGEOUS!! It was so clear and so smooth I was close to getting vertigo! I had seen something about it getting an updated cockpit, if so bravo to Razbam! So, it's not my rig or the Index that is making the Viper look like shit, it's the Viper. To my knowledge ED hasn't acknowledged the poor visibility of the MFD's or HUD yet. It's early access so I'll hold off losing my shit for now. But, if they think I'll accept the current cockpit visuals they are mistaken. Anyone who has another module can see there are big issues. We'll see though.

Which jets are you flying is my first question. My first suggestion is to OC your 9700. It's a good chip with lots of headroom and you WILL see a difference. If your PD is at 1.0 what are you setting SteamVR custom resolution to? What are you setting DCS Application super sampling to? There are several approaches. Up until the last couple weeks my settings were: DCS Pixel Density 1.0 SteamVR Custom Resolution 148% SteamVR DCS Application Super Sampling 138% DCS MSAA @ 2x These settings worked beautifully until the last couple weeks. MSAA @ 2x usually will eliminate aliasing but the tearing will probably get worse from lower frame rates. I agree with you about PD not being as effective in the Index as it was in the CV1 but it does work. I think the ceiling is 1.6. Anything higher and I can't tell a difference.

I have that issue as well when the frames dip. Keep in mind there are two different motion smoothing options. There's one for SteamVR DCS Application Supersampling and another in SteamVR custom resolution settings. You can turn them both off and then it goes to reprojection I believe. It's basically a matter of low frame rates. For me it's worse having my frames spiking up and down all the time.

All of these are good tips. However, the fact remains the MFD's and HUD are not good. All I'm looking for is an acknowledgement and that they will be addressed in the future. I don't think ED has done either as of today.

Not necessarily true at all. I had the Reverb for a few days before I gave up on it because of my IPD being 58. It was VERY clear but that does not explain the nasty ass looking MFD's in the Viper. Period. Go fly the Harrier and Hornet with whatever settings you're using for the Viper and tell me they don't look 100 times better than the Viper.... Pull up any Youtube video of the Viper's MFD's and compare. I have a Samsung 49" 144hz gaming monitor and they look like shit on it as well.

First off, thank you Hempstead for you work. A buddy and I were able to 3D print the grip and use it for prototyping from your drawing. Next, does anyone have a picture of the insides of a real Viper grip?

I'm pretty sure water set to high has no effect on frame rates. At least not in my testing.

Tonight I switched to Steam settings at 100%, bumped DCS Pixel Density to 1.6 and turned off MSAA. I flew a really easy version of the Snowfox mission for about 4 hours. I originally took of out off Sharjah and flew low over the city between it and the coast (I believe Dubai). With the other settings I would drag down to the 30's until about 10,000 ft. With PD at 1.6 it stayed locked at 45. Occasionally it would go below 45 but not long enough to be annoying. 1.6 also cleaned up some of the aliasing where I only notice it on the ground when looking at the yellow stripes. There is still some aliasing in the cockpit when the sun is glaring but nowhere near as bad. MSAA is taking a heavier toll now and I don't know why. Again it seems to have happened recently. I can no longer use my previous settings (In the Viper) of 148%/138% with MSAA @ 2x. The MFD's aren't as clear anymore either but they've been nasty since release. One last observation while running at 1.6PD is the texture of the panels is clearer and the color isn't as washed out. While testing the changes I tried switching back to SteamVR Beta from stable and it wouldn't let me. It did the same thing when I went to stable but after messing with it more it finally worked but won't now. I wish updates would quit breaking shit lol.

https://www.otto-controls.com/j4-hall-effect-transducer https://www.otto-controls.com/sl-slide-switch-in-commercial-and-military-grades https://www.otto-controls.com/t4-4-way-mini-trim These are the real switches but they each need to be customized from here. The first is the Radar Cursor/Enable, the second are for DogFight and SpeedBreak and the last one is the Radio switch. Each switch can be configured with different caps and colors which is done by changing numbers in the product code. Once you figure this out, you would go to Mouser or Peerless Electronics and possibly Digi-key to find them. The above switches configured the right way for the TQS would cost at least $1200-$1500. None of these will work in a Cougar as Thrustmaster made their own switches to approximate the real switch but far cheaper. I've found switches by Grayhill and APEM that will do the job of the much more expensive Otto switches but haven't had time to do the measurements. The TQS I'm making has the exact same grip design and switch mounting as the real thing but I'm trying to keep my cost 1/3 maximum of what the Aerotronics TQS would cost which is in the neighborhood of $4000. Hopefully much less. As I said earlier, to do it right will not be cheap. I also spoke with a local fabrication/cnc company that already does lots of aerospace work for NASA and Raytheon. I'm sending my SolidWorks files to them and will be getting a quote for the arm, tensioner components and grip. It ain't gonna be a pretty quote but I'd like to get it for comparison.

Roger that.

Once I double check the diameters of the switch barrels I'll post them.

Does the sharpening filter work? I'll update today, maybe that will fix whatever is wrong.

All I know is I didn't see any improvement or visual difference at all when I turned it on and set it to 2x or 4x. I would be ecstatic if it did work. I trust Nvidia a hell of a lot more than Steam or DCS when it comes to their hardware. Speaking of, what Nvidia driver is everyone using right now?

My experience with RS is outstanding. Their products are not cheap but you get what you pay for. They also listen to their customers and respond immediately, whether for a problem or to custom make a part for your controller. Case in point, I recently asked if they could make an alternate DMS Castle switch to replace the stadium style on my F16SGRH. I can't use Debolestis' DMS because the RS switch is nothing like the Warthog or Cougar. Within a day, they had 3D printed one for us to look at and then sent a prototype for Supmua to test. I'm buying one as soon as I get the email it's ready. All that said, they would make an accurate TQS but it would be at least $800; probably more. From my research I've pretty much sourced all of the original switches. The RadarCursor/Enable is $150 non mil-spec, 4 way radio $150 non mil-spec, speed break $240 non mil-spec, DF $240 non mil-spec. The Man Range/uncage knob is still the hardest to source. The closest I've gotten and have working has 50Kohm potentiometer, push button switch but no center detent. The radar antenna is pretty easy to source. Can you use some cheaper method? Yes, it's called a Cougar lol. I'm not looking for another Cougar. I want a mechanicaly accurate, upgradable,and repairable TQS. It ain't gonna be cheap regardless of who makes it.

Well, as I was bitching to a buddy while flying about my performance drop off he asked me if I'd gotten any windows updates lately and I said yes, last week. He said check to see if Windows defender was enabled..... dammit. Sure enough it was turned back on and dragging down performance. Once off things got better but they're still not right. I've only flown the 16 since release so I only have it to compare but something has changed. On release I was able to turn on MSAA with 148% and 138% without a frame hit. As opposed to the Hornet where I couldn't do that without excessive frame drop and the canaopy rails looking like water. The 16 had more aliasing than the Hornet on the hud and needed MSAA at 2x to clean it up which it did. I didn't get any frame hit from turning it on until the last couple updates. After trying Supmua's settings of 100% for all steam and crank up the PD I still had pretty knarly aliasing and MSAA at 2x didn't help. I had it as high as 1.7 but after 1.5 I stopped seeing any improvement which is really strange. The CV1 shows improvement to 1.8 then stops being noticeable. After trying those settings as well as the ones from Nahemoth's link, I went back to 138% x 148% without MSAA. It runs butter smooth but I'm stuck with aliasing. Oh, I also switched back to SteamVR stable as I wasn't having luck with the beta. Basically I have no clue what has caused the issues other than Windows defender but that didn't fix everything. *edit* it's running butter smooth online flying the Snowfox mission in PG.