AeriaGloria

Also thought I would mention, becuase of gyroscopic precession, rolling right causes a pitch up and rolling left a pitch down. So a rapid roll right can actually induce mushing/wing/rotor-stall/over G. Heres what manual says, you can disregard how speed decreases max G, more speed makes mushing more violent but still happens at same G. The lower G for high speed I’m sure is there for Margin of safety

Yes. That’s becuase that’s the US Army definition that doesn’t operate it and only really experienced it in dives. But Mi-24 is very fast, easily mushes in level flight, and becuase of it’s wings this mushing is based on a G limit that varies on altitude. That’s all I can say, it’s not the exact same phenomenon that the US army describes for its wingless or helicopters with wings that aren’t designed quite the same. I was very surprised myself how accurately the G limit chart from the manual applies to DCS. I know by being careful with cyclic, I can do 2 G turns from 200-350 kmh, and sustain them especially long by doing so in a dive. It’s not like you can’t turn at high speed; just got to be careful with the Gs. Maybe it’s easier for me since I use a jetseat with the G vibration turned up all the way so I feel it in my butt as well as having the G meter. But you will also be able to notice the sound of the rotors stalling and making a more aggressive FLAP FLAP FLAP noise as the coning becomes severe. So having your sound turned up can help as well. Sometimes I wish the precision air data vane was easier to see by the pilot, if you fly while looking at it or at looking at AOA in the F2/F10 bar also, the relation also becomes very clear

Those would be something easily added without needing a whole new “2” upgrade, even if I’m sure it will never happen. Im sure we will get the jammer eventually. When IR is simulated as well as the FLIR and we have older missiles. L166 should still work on older sidewinders and R-3/13/60 Unfortuently the UPK-23-250 and SPO-15 seems to be export only. I had hope when they planned to overhaul SPO-15 for DCS MiG-29A, but that’s not a sure thing anymore SPO-15 would be such a crazy upgrade. To see type of emitter with more precise bearing and to even roughly gauge the distance! To tell between track lock and missile launch. It would be such a game changer, it would make the Mi-24 much better suited to to modern environments.

That’s just how it’s displayed at the Zuhai airshow. The single pylon weighs 90 kg; and the double weighs 160 kg. So doesn’t fit the 20 kg difference

In Mi-24 it is this way. There is compensation sensors. They detect cyclic deflection from last trimmed point. They then bias the auto pilot to that direction, that way the AP does not fight you after trimming. It’s also the chief way to check the AP on the ground by moving the cyclic and looking at AP deflections Too bad Shark has no such way to see what AP is doing

I have seen varying statistics. 180 kg is a common value, so at first I thought 199 in LUA was wrong. Then I came across SD-10 placards from China that also states 199 kg. It makes sense if you compare it to sparrow weight, I can’t find the image, but it’s from Zuhai airshow. http://defenseupdates.blogspot.com/2012/11/sd-10a-and-ld-10-missiles-at-zhuhai.html?m=1 If you look at many sources, you will find lots of disagreement. But 199 kg seems to be straight from Zuhai promotional material

Mi-24 actually works same way as it’s trim interaction is similar, since trim causes AP and attitude hold to reset completely. So you get similar jerk, that I similarly solved by either holding the Trim button down or trimming multiple times. I would say it might be even worse becuase when you press trim you have no AP. But In Ka-50 you still have dampening. @GumidekCZ, it’s definitly really. It’s been something virtual pilots have had to learn and struggle with since Black Shark first came out. You will see many old black shark tutorials and lessons about this. For the Mi-24, there is documentation I have seen that backs this up. Apache has a similar function where you hold force trim forward for 3 seconds or so. But becuase it’s a long press I think it’s more gradual and less intrusive then when AP instantly cuts out

Army fundamentals of flight https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN35749-TC_3-04.4-000-WEB-1.pdf Described as “MUSHING 1-165. Mushing is a temporary stall condition occurring in helicopters when rapid aft cyclic is applied at high forward airspeeds. Normally associated with dive recoveries, which result in a significant loss of altitude, this phenomenon can also occur in a steep turn resulting in an increased turn radius. Mushing results during high G- maneuvers when at high forward airspeeds aft cyclic is abruptly applied. This results in a change in the airflow pattern on the rotor exacerbated by total lift area reduction as a result of rotor disc coning. Instead of an induced flow down through the rotor system, an upflow is introduced which results in a stall condition on portions of the entire rotor system. While this is a temporary condition (because in due time the upflow will dissipate and the stall will abate), the situation may become critical during low altitude recoveries or when maneuvering engagements require precise, tight turning radii. High aircraft gross weight and high density altitude are conditions conducive to and can aggravate mushing. 1-166. Mushing can be recognized by the aircraft failing to respond immediately but continuing on the same flight path as before the application of aft cyclic. Slight feedback and mushiness may be felt in the controls. When mushing occurs, the tendency is to pull more aft cyclic which prolongs stall and increases recovery times. Make a forward cyclic adjustment to recover from the mushing condition. This reduces the induced flow, improves the resultant AOA, and reduces rotor disc coning which increases the total lift area of the disc. The pilot will immediately feel a change in direction of the aircraft and increased forward momentum as the cyclic 05 July 2022 TC 3-04.4 1-51 Chapter 1 is moved forward. To avoid mushing, the pilot must use smooth and progressive application of the aft cyclic during high G-maneuvers such as dive recoveries and tight turns” So as you can see, basically a helicopter stall that is made more violent and agreesive by the wing aerodynamics which brings to stall at positive AOA, and the little rotor twist. And once your stabilator stalls you’re really screwed. Now you know everything there is to know about mushing If this isn’t what you were experiencing, please forgive me and give me some more details. There is a difference in return to level bank stability in left versus right turns

It’s mushing. Caused by exceeding 1.8 G at low altitudes and medium weight. Only happens this has becuase wings stall from positive AOA, when their lift stalls it causes pitch up. This causes rotor to stall. Which makes pitch up even worse. Depending on where collective is, your horizontal stabilator will stall at around 10 degrees AOA or more. Once your stabilator stalls you are really screwed! So as preventative or to help you can decrease collective 1-3 degrees, watch your G meter, build up G slowly. At altitudes of 2,000-3000m your max g won’t be higher then about 1.4-1.5. And don’t be afraid to give full forward cyclic when you feel it starting. Decreasing collective will help un-stall the rotor blades and increase control, as well as rotating the stabilator down to make it work at higher AOA. This happens in any helicopter, but is only mentioned in army manuals becuase it usually happens in fast dives. But Mi-24 with its wings that are behind rotor causing 25% lift and pitch down, with 19 degrees incidence so they stall easily, and rotors that only have 3 degrees of washout/twist (many other helicopters like Apache and Mi-8 have rotor with 7-8 degrees twist), all mean that when your wings stall then your rotor stalls and you cobra. If your rotor stalls then your wing stalls after that and you cobra. This can be good for breaking, but once you get good at hearing and feeling when it happens, you will be able to ride the edge. In a level turn your bank angle decides your G. A 2 G turn is equal to 60 degree bank in level turn. So basically at low weight and altitude, 60 degree turn is the steepest turn you can do. 45 degree is about 1.4 G, so your range of max bank in level turn is about 45-60 degrees. You can ignore the relation between speed and max G, while speed does make the mushing more violent, if you can pull 2 G at 250 kmh you can do it at 300 kmh If You need to turn with more then 60 degrees of bank, plan on losing altitude

There is sweet spot for collective when making turn. Full pitch causes too much torque, needing high tail rotor drag. Highest pitch you can maintain full power and 90-95% rpm, since Governor cuts power above 95%. You can increase this limit by 2-3% with rpm adjust switch on collective. For me usually end up at 11-13 collective for 200-250 kmh right hand turn sustained SPUU-52 off won’t help much, Tail rotor stalls eventually, same if you let it crab more then about 10 degrees (slip ball 2/3rds right)

Pretty sure they don’t mean Petro, but the Rita Ri-65 warnings like “low rotor rpm, ri-65 functional, main/backup hydraulic failure, engine/APU fire, lower gear, service tank failure.” Think I covered most of them

Always thought it would be useful to have a drag index for JF-17. The recent discussion about pylons got me searching for what I could find. Can’t find drag added for bombs, only missiles and smart munitions and pylons Of note, can’t find drag added for fuel tanks or SPJ. I think I will have to do some drag tests and find a relative value. What I can find is…… DL pylon: 0.0015 BRM-90 pylon: 0.002 C-802 pylon: 0.0023 GB-6 pylon: 0.0024 SD-10 single pylon: 0.00086 SD-10 dual: 0.001126 Fuel tank pylon: 0.0014 SPJ pylon: 0.00064 SD/LD-10: 2 GB-6: 10 C-802: 8 LS-6 250/500: 8 PL-5: 1.6 C-701: 1.7 BRM-90: 3.6 Atleast this way for air to air we can make up an approximate drag index value for when we punch the fuel tanks. My usual 4x SD-10 and 2x PL-5eII would add 8.2 and some change. Really wish I could find SPJ/WMD-7/DL/fuel tank/bomb figures I would assume fuel tanks would be around same figure as C-802/GB-6. And if PL-5 and C-701 hover under 2, can’t see how SPJ would be more then about 2.

Can’t be added becuase it’s Pakistan weapon. You only see Chinese weapons on DCS JF-17 for one reason, all of Deka’s sources are Chinese. They have said if they ever get Pakistani sources willing to give info, they will make them.

10000 seeker sensitivity means a non afterburning Su-27 will be locked on at 10 km. 10000 is what most missiles in this category use. My heat supressed Mi-24/8 with IR coefficient of 0.5, would be locked on at 5 km. Gazelle/Apache/Huey would only be locked at 2 km. So 10000 or a little higher is likely the correct ball park

Section 3 of my autopilot guide will show you everything you could ever want to know about the yaw autopilot, microswitches, special settings, and how to make the yaw autopilot do what you want https://forum.dcs.world/topic/294627-personal-mi-24p-autopilot-and-weapons-guides/

They should work with ATGM powered on. Is pilot doing everything in this video? https://youtu.be/wR-dS3NVVnc Pilot needs to turn on R-60 power Set fuse to air wait one minute set launcher on correct pylon wait ten seconds for missile ready light to turn on Only then can pilot fire R-60. It is entirely dependent on them and has nothing to do with ATGM In multicrew, you can even fire ATGM and R-60 at same time

No. They only needs to be turned on once. With single crew R-60s and ATGM will switch only if R-60 pylon selector is on. R-60 pylon selector on, R-60 works. Pylon selector off, ATGM. You only need to wait 10 seconds for R-60M to cool down seeker. They are completely separate systems, using one has no effect on the other. They only interact with each other with what the weapon release button does for the pilot in single crew In multi crew, they don’t even share the launch button becuase R-60 is only handled by pilot, and ATGM only handled by CPG. ED only made it so we could fire ATGM from back seat to make it easier to play

This is the manual procedure, that tutorial will also teach Front seat three switchers that are linked together for weapons by left shoulder, missile power, pylon selector, and power switch by observe are turned on Wait 3.5 minutes Then you can turn on observe, and sight will work in 10 seconds I got this just by doing the tutorial a few times

I think Miki answered you in other thread that there is 3.5 minute warm up when first powering front seat periscope to heat up gyros and system, and that there is 10 second delay for gyros to spin up after turning on observe. As for R-60. It all depends if launchers are on. For example, I can track someone with periscope, lock with R-60, and fire. You can even fire ATGM while getting R-60 tone on the missile. However, if you lock target with periscope, and don’t turn on launchers, you will only fire ATGM. Since it takes 10 seconds for missiles to cool when turning on launcher, that means you have 10 seconds delay from being able to fire ATGM, turn on launchers, and have R-60 ready to fire.

There was only like a dozen made. Would be nice, but V version upgrade is much more likely. We should also get more rocket variants, SPO-15, Cyprus version with small wings and fixed gear, UPK-23-250, L166V, windows PK/AK. There is a few features they could add for a upgrade down the road. Even re doing the cockpits for Mi-24D and using the Mi-8 engines for it would be likely minimal changes if a V is already being done.

Mi-24 manual says collective only needs to be raised above bottom for autorotation above 1,000m. Above 1,000m altitude, it is allowed to increase pitch to 2-3 degrees.

Depending on how failed the gyros are you need to turn the system off and keep it off then turn back on. For example, for a little damage, you can turn off weapon power ATGMs for 1-2 minutes, then turn it on for 2 minutes. If your gyros are completely busted, turn them off for the full 3.5-4 minutes and turn them on for 3.5 minutes. They have to be off for as long as they are turned on, just turning them off then turning them back on won’t do anything. Only other way is getting now aircraft

Could you show pictures? The flap and lead/lag hinges will not all be the same when stop. This is why the helicopter shakes when rpm passes about 40-60% becuase the blades having different flap and lead/lag causes vibration until the centrifugal force from rising RPM straightens them out. As for pitch I have noticed seemingly correct pitch, there is also barely noticeable 3 degrees of washout/twist along the blade.

Everything works correct, and matches the description from a real life manual I posted above your post. Since pressing trim makes AP reset to 0, if AP is giving a lot of input when that input goes always it can cause a sudden “jerk.” Is that what you mean? If so, it does work that way. And is why real life manuals suggest to trim frequently, or hold trim. I personally just trim 2-3x to make sure that I am maintaining that attitude with my AP as close to 0 as possible. If not, please describe the issue you are experiencing This thread was started shortly after release, then trim did not work correct. Trim would make it go to 0 but it would go to where it was before instead of resetting the attitude hold. A few months later a patch fixed it to work correctly and have trim properly reset AP to 0 when pressed. So that specific issue the thread was started for is resolved

I just used the view keys to change my postion. Nice to sit anywhere in the cabin. For example head down is right control + right shift + numpad 8