Improved G-tolerance

Hi,

I know this has been requested before, but I want to put some emphasis on it. Currently, one experiences G-LOC at 7.8Gs.

I know that there are plans to revamp the whole system, but just a temporary fix to raise it from 7.8 to 8.8Gs would do so much.

Currently the rate fighters (F-16, MiG-29) are pretty unusable in a dogfight because you if you try to outrate someone, you just G-LOC.

Looking at the best dogfighters in DCS, wether it be on the servers or the Twitch events, they all use either F-18 or M2000C almost exclusively.

Hi,

 

I know this has been requested before, but I want to put some emphasis on it. Currently, one experiences G-LOC at 7.8Gs.

I know that there are plans to revamp the whole system, but just a temporary fix to raise it from 7.8 to 8.8Gs would do so much.

 

Currently the rate fighters (F-16, MiG-29) are pretty unusable in a dogfight because you if you try to outrate someone, you just G-LOC.

Looking at the best dogfighters in DCS, wether it be on the servers or the Twitch events, they all use either F-18 or M2000C almost exclusively.

You've likely already tried this so forgive me if so, but are you doing a G-warmup? DCS models the g-warmup's effect on the pilots tolerance.

G-warmups helps with sudden G-onset, but the limit is still at 7.8Gs.

Perfect for the F-18 and Su-27, but too low for F-16 or MiG-29.

I'm not asking for something unrealistic, and I understand that G-LOC is a real, dangerous thing.

I believe Jello from FPP said that the G-tolerance in DCS reminded him of having an "off day."

So I'm not stating that it's impossible to have such G-tolerance, but it's probably uncommon amongst fighter pilots that train for this.

I know that there are plans to revamp the whole system, but just a temporary fix to raise it from 7.8 to 8.8Gs would do so much.

For how long in your opinion human can stay conscious at 8.8 Gs?

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a196171.pdf

Page 4 of the PDF. That's the normal profile a fighter pilot have to perform.

So answering your question, at least 15 seg at 9 G's...

It should be the other way around.. The pilot should suffer from fatigue.. with a period of recovery after pulling high Gs. He also should move slower, especially in WWII fighters. Not warm-up.. warm-up??? jeezzz..

For how long in your opinion human can stay conscious at 8.8 Gs?

Longer than you think.

https://youtu.be/_0nbRYIBVDQ

Well if you listen to podcast and some of the interviews from the Grim Reapers, couple of real jet pilots metioned that the "DCS Pilot" is kind a pussy weak, the real pilots tend to blackout closer to 9g

Well if you listen to podcast and some of the interviews from the Grim Reapers, couple of real jet pilots metioned that the "DCS Pilot" is kind a pussy weak, the real pilots tend to blackout closer to 9g

Bunch of sissies, I personally black out at around 16G!

More seriously, I have sincere doubts that there is a legitimate claim of that. If getting to the point in flying, I would assume having an eye on the ol' G-meter is probably not a priority, and for the centrifuge runs it is no secret that there are plenty of tricks to optimise G-loc performance for those, which mostly require you to have a fixed appointment on when you are supposed to do that.

When the F-16-configured seat is used, the training profiles set 1G higher than they are when the conventional fighter aircraft seat (13° seatback angle, normal rudder pedal position) is used. The higher-G profiles are used with the F-16 seat because pilots report a 1- to 2-G subjective improvement in G tolerance in the F-16 as compared to other fighter aircraft, and because data obtained during centrifuge training when both types of seat were used revealed at least 0.8 G greater tolerances in the F- 16-configured seat than in the conventional seat (i).

It's from the link gave before by MROK73 ( https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a196171.pdf )

p4 of the pdf and p15 of the document

About F16 maybe I'm wrong but in my remember ED talked about it when they do the advertise for the F16, I imagine they planify to tweak the F16 G model

It seems all the turn rate fighters are limited by the actual G model

PS: personnally i use F18 a turn radius fighter)

Best regards

Could you please send it via google disc? Can't open it

Yes they plan to adjust the G-model. Wags called it "a high priority".

Could you please send it via google disc? Can't open it

Odd, it works just fine for me...

I think that a more advanced G-modelling system would be nice, like the other WW2 sim just implemented.

But IMO there should be a stop-gap solution of just increasing the G-level at which one starts to experience blackout.

Then later down the line, we might see a more advanced system with fatigue, and difference in sustained and sudden onset of Gs.

Longer than you think.

 

Not necessarily. There are some people more resistant to G-forces, just like there are the ones who are less resistant. Here's the picture with the results from experiments on 1434 pilots, all were without G-suits and weren't using Anti-G Strain Maneuver

I think Wags mentioned some months back that they are overhauling the g-modeling.

Another good resource for the G model, AFI11-404.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a296761.pdf

You also gotta be careful not to make the piolt too good, like keep in mind pilots can't do 9G say for 40 seconds then after a very short recovery do it again for the same amount of time. Every time you go to these high load factors it should start to significantly decrease your ability to hold G. Negative g's in particular should severally impact your ability to hold high G. That other prop sim does a REALLY good job of this and I recommend going and reading their post on the subject. While very modern G suits, a better understanding of the phenomenon, and the Gstrain maneuver have improved a pilots ability to hold high G for longer things such as very rapid G onset and long drawn out fights should still impact the performance.

Not necessarily. There are some people more resistant to G-forces, just like there are the ones who are less resistant. Here's the picture with the results from experiments on 1434 pilots, all were without G-suits and weren't using Anti-G Strain Maneuver

Well, yes, but they're not doing anti-G straining. So of course they're going to have a low tolerance. I would hope that our DCS pilot is doing anti-g strain maneuvers :music_whistling:

This could really change the way dogfighting is done in MP if done right.

Bunch of sissies, I personally black out at around 16G!

 

More seriously, I have sincere doubts that there is a legitimate claim of that. If getting to the point in flying, I would assume having an eye on the ol' G-meter is probably not a priority, and for the centrifuge runs it is no secret that there are plenty of tricks to optimise G-loc performance for those, which mostly require you to have a fixed appointment on when you are supposed to do that.

Me, Id never black out no matter what G. Sometimes I feel quite a bit nauseous with the damn Oculus tho. :megalol:

Well, yes, but they're not doing anti-G straining. So of course they're going to have a low tolerance. I would hope that our DCS pilot is doing anti-g strain maneuvers :music_whistling:

The reason I posted that picture was to show that different pilots have different tolerance, not to point that those results should be implemented into DCS. I just wanted to say that the guy in the vid could be a more resilient one. There're plenty of other videos where pilots loose consciousness at 8 Gs, some at 6-7

I agree with the fact that different pilots have different tolerances.

However, a Viper pilot should be able to pull 9Gs for quite some time, they're required to.

Even the current g-limit lacks difference in tolerance that you mention, it has a "hard deck" of 7.8Gs (approx.)