Which is easier to learn A10C or Blackshark?

[Dudester22]

I am half way through learning about the A10C, and just want to know if Black Shark, is going to be just as hard to get to grips with. I'd like to think the Black Shark is going to be easier to pick up, but I am enjoying learning about the A10C.

[Faith]

I think you will have a large learning curve purely from the switch to helicopter flight dynamics, controls and stability/trim systems compared to something like the A-10C. Other than that I'm not qualified to say.

[siipperi]

I say go with a10c, not because it's easier but actually more useful if you plan to continue playing dcs. Once you master hog you have considerably lower step to start learning future f18. Ka50 is so easy in weapon standpoint but hard to fly first. A10 is opposite but in my opinion more logical and easier to use and master.

[Shein]

A-10 is easier to fly, crazy complicated avionics.

KA-50 is tricky to fly, but pretty simplistic avionics.

 

That's the quick and dirty of it.

[BigMotor]

Which is easier to learn- A10C because it doesn't have an ABRIS and it's not a helicopter.

[PFunk1606688187]

I find the Ka-50 to be harder because,

 

#1 the flight dynamics of a helicopter are much more complex to come to grips with initially compared to a fixed wing aircraft, especially compared to the A-10 which is very forgiving. That said the coaxial set up on the Black Shark makes for some nice benefits.

 

#2 its my opinion that the avionics in the Black Shark are rather crap compared to the A-10. In particular the system for selecting and designating targets to your wingman is... just weird. The systems on the A-10 might be complex but in my opinion they're far better designed and easier to use on the fly, but some Shark pilot will no doubt contradict me.

[mmaruda]

You can learn to fly the Shark in one day as well as use it as a weapon. You'll need another week to learn to use if fairly effectively. The A-10C can be learned to fly in a week and can take ages to master especially if you try to do it on your own. It is quite overwhelming. Bottom line is actually what you want - the Shark is about sneaking into the AO, hovering at safe distance, blasting away and getting out. The A-10C is about staying in the AO, getting info from JTAC and blowing stuff up without getting blasted yourself.

 

All in all, Ka-50 is easier, as there is less stuff to operate and A-10C is easier to fly at first glance, but to be honest once you get some practice, you will find the Shark basically flies itself.

[Exorcet]

The Ka-50 is a step in difficulty above the A-10 unless you're very familiar with helicopters. Being proficient enough to destroy targets isn't too hard with either, but the Ka-50 demands more attention just to fly. If you're willing to put time into both, you'll probably be comfortable with both, but I expect that on average the Ka-50 takes longer to learn.

[lmp]

The avionics package of the Kamov is definitely a lot smaller. The only really complex part of it is the ABRIS satnav, and you don't need to know every single function in it to fly and fight in the Black Shark effectively. On the other hand, the systems that are there tend to be less well integrated and not as logical. Russian flight engineers are not masters of ergonomy.

 

Flying a helicopter is generally harder than flying a plane. I don't know if you have any experience with chopper sims (or real choppers). If you don't, you'll probably need at least 10 hours to fly the helicopter somewhat confidently.

 

One additional thing... do you want to fly with the original Russian cockpit or with the English version? If you don't know Russian and you still want the "full experience", it'll definitely make learning harder for you.

Edited February 7, 2014 by lmp

[Revan]

In my opinion, the A-10C is easier to learn to fly, and more fun to fly than the Ka-50, however, when you get a lot of experience, the Ka-50 is very useful

[atsmith6]

Hey Dudester22

 

The only reason these aircraft are hard to learn is that the teaching material available to us almost all assumes a certain level of knowledge, or more likely, the authors forget what they didn't know before they got any good.

 

If you can find someone that is already proficient you will find getting to grips with either aircraft far less challenging than you'd expect. Consider joining a virtual fighter wing.

 

I realise that's a seriously sideways interpretation of an answer to your original question but I mentioned it as I wish I'd done it when I was in exactly your position. After joining the 72nd VFW I went from facing a mountain to little more than a molehill.

 

As a direct answer, aeroplane flight dynamics are far easier than for a helicopter. On the other hand the avionics of all the "high-fidelity" simulator aircraft are surprisingly similar and once you understand one, transitioning to another is far-far easier than the first time through. I started on the F-16 in Falcon BMS, then learned the DCS KA-50 and A-10C. The latter two were just learning the buttons to press to do what I already understood from the Viper. So considering all that - I'd recommend learning the A-10C first, then transitioning to the Kamov. That way you can focus on learning helicopter flight without wondering what all the switches do too.

 

Hope that's useful

[cichlidfan]

A-10 is easier to fly, crazy complicated avionics.

KA-50 is tricky to fly, but pretty simplistic avionics.

 

That's the quick and dirty of it.

 

This! :)

[The LT]

I'd agree with most posts above...

 

1. A-10C: easier to fly, but more complicated avionics, more weapon diversity. You have to learn to drop various bombs and that takes time. Learning the CDU navigation in depth also takes time.

 

2. Ka-50: Much harder to fly effectively, takes more time to get used to it, has somewhat simpler and old avionics (although the ABRIS also has loads of functions not a lot of DCS pilots bother to learn). The weapons employment is somewhat easier, but cannon employment requires finesse and careful piloting, which takes somewhat more time than in the hog.

 

Overall, YMMV I guess. Depends on your style of flying and approach. Reading the manual and having a good instructor speeds things up immensely.

 

I'd say start with the A-10C and work from there. Once you learn the A-10C, the Ka-50 will be much easier for you, I guess.

[Dudester22]

I have now decided to learn the A10C, before I move onto anything else. Youtube video tutorials have been a Godsend and so has the help from people in here. I think I am getting closer to learning alot about the A10C and will stick with that for now.

 

I wish I could speed up the learning process a bit more, but learning little by little has allowed other things to click into place much more smoothly.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[The_Pharoah]

A-10 is easier to fly, crazy complicated avionics.

KA-50 is tricky to fly, but pretty simplistic avionics.

 

That's the quick and dirty of it.

 

+1

 

The KA is tricky but you do get used to it, esp when you use the trimmer. I find the helicopter 'handling' quite different to the Huey and Mi8...I don't know whether its the twin rotor system or what...but it certainly flys really sluggish. I've obviously never flown any of these birds in real life so I can't comment.

[PFunk1606688187]

I wish I could speed up the learning process a bit more, but learning little by little has allowed other things to click into place much more smoothly.

 

The only way to improve your pace of learning is to have someone work with you. Self study is very limited because you cannot ask ad hoc questions as they come to you, instead you need to search for answers and this can be very exhausting, unlike when you say to your friend "Whats this button do?" and he just says "Words".

 

Closest to getting help without having an actual person is to watch those youtube videos, especially the indepth 20+ minute ones about individual topics because you get a lot of personal "tips and tricks" type of stuff. Also the forums have text versions of the "whats this button do?" conversation so if you wanna know something try a search and see what shows up.

 

Also, the DCS manual is limited almost exclusively to technical operation of the aircraft, no tactics or procedures. To learn that stuff you do need to look beyond. Thats when the self study thing really starts to choke off your progress.

 

Depending on your general flight sim experience, you may wish to look for more general aviation related materials online to help you understand correct stick flying of your A-10. Fighting your airframe while trying to operate avionics is fruitless.

[Yurgon]

I have now decided to learn the A10C, before I move onto anything else.

 

Yeah.

 

Let's face it. The Ka-50 is a dinosaur. The ergonomics are outrageously bad (who the hell would put the countermeasures dispenser as far away from the cyclic as humanly possible inside the cockpit?!). The (missing) link between PVI-800 and Abris makes you scratch your head all the time. And in a contest of pure ugliness, the Hog would have a hard time beating the Black Shark.

 

And you know what? I just love the Black Shark! :thumbup:

 

First of all, it's the helicopter sim I'd always waited for (that was way before BST announced Huey and Hip). Second, flying the Shark is just such a joy. Learning to control the beast and understanding how the Auto Pilot modes can actually help you instead of trying to kill you is a tremendously rewarding experience, or at least it has been for me. :D

 

But, on the other hand, I actually like the A-10C even more. Just like the Black Shark, it has so many downsides. It's slow. It's ugly. Ergonomics... seriously?! Different, but hardly much better than in the Ka-50. Incredibly difficult to learn in-depth with all its systems, most obviously the CDU (hey, just like the PVI-800 it's located on the right console - is that where aircraft manufacturers are required to place the most difficult instruments?).

 

So, what's not to like about it? :lol:

 

Both have an awesome 30mm cannon, the GAU-8 just spits out a few more rounds per minute.

 

But in my very personal opinion, learning the (more modern) systems of the A-10C is more fun in the long term and I tend to enjoy A-10C missions more than I enjoy Ka-50 missions right now. Then again, you simply can't go wrong with either module. :thumbup:

[Yurgon]

THe A-10C has interactive training [...]

 

As does the Ka-50, it just requires downloading once. :)

 

Edit: Errr... and it's not like this was any news to you... :unsure:

Edited February 7, 2014 by Yurgon

[lunaticfringe]

Part of the reason that systems in the A-10C (and similarly the F-16 in BMS, as an example) *seem* complex is because of they are built around a logical progression of steps. When one is trained in the RTU, the steps are not only taught, but explained with the reasoning behind them.

 

So what happens is that from the very start they are taught that mode begets pages, pages beget sensors, sensors cue weapons, rather than trying to select a weapon and start flipping for pages and sensors (if required).

 

The most important thing you can do is put yourself in the mindset of recognizing the situation you are in and the opportunity that you will have to engage a target. This then tells you what weapon you want to employ- example: as much as, if not more than the target type; sure, you might want to dumb bomb/Avenger that APC, but if he's one pass (of your time) worth of time away from dumping infantry all over the guys you're supposed to be supporting, you better Maverick the bastard at range and screw spending on the ZSU. Know the circumstance and the weapon, this tells you the mode and SOI, which then lets you actually *have* the weapon of your choice, without a bunch of fumbling around trying to get all the pages and sequences to match.

 

Get that, and the switchology is easy.

[tintifaxl]

With AI units spotting and shooting through trees, the A-10C is a much better choice.

[Hunden Ynk]

Vodka or Apple pie, why don't we have both?! ;)

[McBlemmen]

A-10C by miles. Its complex but if you start to understand it it will all seem natural.

 

Afterwards you can go to the black shark and dig your claws into that one ;)

[msalama]

Ka-50's systems are much easier to operate than the A-10's, but _flying_ the Shark is several orders of magnitude harder for an unexperienced helo pilot. So pick your poison ;)

[Vedexent]

Ka-50's systems are much easier to operate than the A-10's, but _flying_ the Shark is several orders of magnitude harder for an unexperienced helo pilot. So pick your poison ;)

 

Agreed - but I'd also say that if you want to pick up helos, the Ka-50 is a good starting point. It's designed to be simple enough to fly that the pilot has the time and attention to also be the gunner.

 

Jumping from flying the Ka-50 into the Mi-8 - a platform I like a lot, but am still the greenest of n00bs with - really made me appreciate the simplicity of flying the Ka-50.

[msalama]

With AI units spotting and shooting through trees

 

Sorry for the digression, but AIs shooting through trees isn't ALWAYS unrealistic. For reference see f.ex. some RL videos on Youtube where some insurgents deep in a woods somewhere shoot down an Mi-8...