Pman Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 As noted in the initial post, the MiG-23 in particular remains a very attractive project for us as it shares roughly 60% of code commonality with the MiG-23. However this is not a definitive answer and things may change. Id be interested in answers to some of the questions regarding legal entities as per my post here : http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2007647&postcount=34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upupandaway Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Yes, it is easy to forget how much effort was put into the MiG-21BIS project before it took off like it did in the last year or so. For me it´s not about a refund of the money, but I really hate the impression of being strung along and kept in the dark when there are obviously quite substantial things going on behind the curtains. The point you make about the likely future of the MiG-23 project is indeed quite sad... Question is if all ties between Laszlo/Novak and LS have been cut now once and for all. Edited February 27, 2014 by upupandaway [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Deedle, deedle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinox Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 As noted in the initial post, the MiG-23 in particular remains a very attractive project for us as it shares roughly 60% of code commonality with the MiG-23. However this is not a definitive answer and things may change. It is even more attractive project for us, because if I understand you correctly, DCS:MiG-23 (if ever released) would cost roughly 40% of the price you charge for DCS:MiG-21bis! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra847 Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Thank you for your announcement, I am sure that you will receive hundreds of pms and emails etc so although I am going to make a few of my concerns known I do not expect a reply. It is to your credit that you have decided to continue the project without beczl's input however I want to know about his initial contribution, by your own admission he contributed a minimum of what 15% of the project? Presumably you have an agreement with him to use his work or you are re-writing it? What is the legal entity behind the product? Where is the liability held? Which legal entity is responsible for the support and upkeep of the product? Also where is it based and under which countries jurisdiction? I find it concerning that you appear to have no future plans now that you have all but ruled out the Mig23? Going forward the information that you actually provide in your announcement amounts to "We are still here, we will still do Mig21 and we will honor where possible the indie pledges" Also I assume that regardless of the internal issues, resolved or not, the Mig will be delayed until 1.2.8 is out? I await to be impressed with your progress but what it amounts to at the moment leaves some pretty major areas for concern, especially as you are 100% relying on new sales if what you say about having received none of the funds is true. As a potential new customer I am concerned to say the least. Hopefully my concerns are not justified Pman Hi Pman, As part of the amicable departure, we have secured copyrights to the work that Laszlo built for the MiG-21. This amount is, however, dwindling as most of the work is being replaced (as most of it is deprecated). Leatherneck Simulations is (soon to be) an extension of an existing LLC based in Poland. We are (obviously) committed to supporting our product for years to come. We are a business, and without a quality product that is well supported during it's entire lifetime, we are nothing. Please re-read the section of the announcement that deals with our future plans. While we can rule the MiG-23 out in the near-term, we have a new project in an advanced state of development that we will announce when we are able. We are here to stay. I cannot yet comment on the release date or point release of DCS it will be bundled with. Edited February 27, 2014 by Cobra847 Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger66 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Oh ..... don't be so ****ing stupid . You don't even know what happened . Best be quite before you get involved in liable . Jesus ..... some people !!! :doh: Thank you for the negative rep for saying what I said above @ =4c= Hajduk Veljko ..... Your a prick !!! A real big one .................. :harhar: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) As noted in the initial post, the MiG-23 in particular remains a very attractive project for us as it shares roughly 60% of code commonality with the MiG-23. However this is not a definitive answer and things may change. Yes, I saw that comment in the announcement, but it sounds like a 'maybe' at best :) I hope that 60% doesn't include the radar and related systems as, how ever tempting that might sound from your end, I assume the virtual fliers wouldn't want a raw deal kind of which the Middle Eastern countries got with their MiG-23MS purchase ;) Edited February 27, 2014 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra847 Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) quick correction: Novak is a big and integral component of Leatherneck and is here to stay for years to come. (We have him chained to his desk until he finishes his quota of code) Edited February 27, 2014 by Cobra847 Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger66 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It is even more attractive project for us, because if I understand you correctly, DCS:MiG-23 (if ever released) would cost roughly 40% of the price you charge for DCS:MiG-21bis! :-) And possibily could be made 40% quicker too . SU-22 Please !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pman Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Hi Pman, As part of the amicable departure, we have secured copyrights to the work that Laszlo built for the MiG-21. This amount is, however, dwindling as most of the work is being replaced (as most of it is deprecated). Leatherneck Simulations is (soon to be) an extension of an existing LLC based in Poland. We are (obviously) committed to supporting our product for years to come. We are a business, and without a quality product that is well supported during it's entire lifetime, we are nothing. Please re-read the section of the announcement that deals with our future plans. While we can rule the MiG-23 out in the near-term, we have a new project in an advanced state of development that we will announce when we are able. We are here to stay. I cannot yet comment on the release date or point release of DCS it will be bundled with. Thank you for the answer, it is appreciated :) I will look on with hope and interest Pman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upupandaway Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (We have him chained to his desk until he finishes his quota of code) Good [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Deedle, deedle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypersonik Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 quick correction: Novak is a big and integral component of Leatherneck and is here to stay for years to come. (We have him chained to his desk until he finishes his quota of code) :megalol: Did you cut his wings too ? :D DCSW wishlist : multi-crew :D GTX480, i52400, 8GB, Samsung EVO 840 250G SSD, Raid 0 2TB =~45 FPS [Maxed] [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtherealN Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yes, I saw that comment in the announcement, but it sounds like a 'maybe' at best :) I hope that 60% doesn't include the radar and related systems as, how ever tempting that might sound from your end, I assume the virtual fliers wouldn't want a raw deal kind of which the Middle Eastern countries got with their MiG-23MS purchase ;) He did say code commonality, not hardware commonality. The latter obviously tends to give the former, but having the former does not mean you have it because of the latter. It all depends on exactly how things were handled originally in code; radars that are quite different could still work on largely the same code if the principles behind their operation is close enough to each other. An example of this would be Black Shark and P-51; they're nothing like each other, really, but if I remember right Yo-Yo stated that having the code for the rotors in Black Shark helped in setting up the propeller on the P-51. Basically, code doesn't always come in the discrete package of being one-off's for a given simulated component. Parts of code developed for one component in one aircraft might be useful in a different component of a different aircraft. (And it also might not, it all depends on how it was done and how it relates to the components in question.) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtherealN Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It is even more attractive project for us, because if I understand you correctly, DCS:MiG-23 (if ever released) would cost roughly 40% of the price you charge for DCS:MiG-21bis! :-) I have absolutely no say or special knowledge, but I'd be a bit careful with such assumptions. Re-using code when possible is often a necessary part of building a viable business, since it allows you to offset development costs on multiple products. A classic example would be Quake 1 and Quake 2. Both were fullprice products, but Quake 2 re-used a lot of what was done for the Quake 1 engine. You see the same thing in games like the Battlefield series. (And the most extreme example is when you adapt your existing game engine for multiple games.) Basically, I'm sure they'll do whatever they have to do to both give us awesome products and stay afloat as a company themselves. No-one will be happy if they go belly up because they failed to charge appropriately for their products. This is, after all, a very harsh market to be in. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchniX Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 F-4 Phantom II Please! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron886 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Great job picking up the pieces, guys. This is such an important project for third parties in general! I will be ready to purchase on release to support your work. You deserve it, enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Leatherneck Simulations is (soon to be) an extension of an existing LLC based in Poland. Does this LLC have an address? ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRooDJeRo Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Alright. At least you've got my focus on the project now. That's not a bad thing, but what has been seen cannot be unseen. The hope of a MIG returning seems exiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFirehawk Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Who's in charge of the project now? Cobra and Dolphin? Since Cobra is doing so many postings I've began to wonder about that. Pentium II 233Mhz | 16MB RAM | 14.4kb Modem | 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive | Windows 3.1 with TM Warthog & TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G00dnight Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Does this LLC have an address? yes poland:lol: DCS Iskra anyone!! AMD A8-5600K @ 4GHz, Radeon 7970 6Gig, 16 Gig Ram, Win 10 , 250 gig SSD, 40" Screen + 22 inch below, Track Ir, TMWH, Saitek combat pedals & a loose nut behind the stick :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUSO Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 quick correction: Novak is a big and integral component of Leatherneck and is here to stay for years to come. (We have him chained to his desk until he finishes his quota of code) :worthy::worthy: :poster_oops: [sIGPIC]http://www.131st.net/ipb/public/style_extra/calltags/calltag_luso.png[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siipperi Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Or we might be dropping you a hint. I don't think we'd be that obvious though, would we? Probably not. ;) Phantom confirmed :lol: Seriously though, counterpart to mig21 would rock. Good luck to new studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven68 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Or we might be dropping you a hint. I don't think we'd be that obvious though, would we? Probably not. ;) Here is my guess. Just because Novak has already made some substantial progress. Also AV-8 Harrier is a USMC plane? :thumbup: EDIT: Also want to say thanks to you all at Leatherneck Simulations for working thru this in spite of the issues. Good luck to you all! Edited February 27, 2014 by Raven68 1 Intel i5-9600K @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte Z370XP SLI Mobo G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2070 8GB 256-Bit GDDR6(Assume the latest driver version) Thermaltake Water 3.0 Certified Liquid Cooling System Windows 10 Professional Oculus Rift-S /TrackIR 5 in case VR dies Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog w/ Thrustmaster T-Flight Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrgud Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 @Cobra Thanks for announcement! We all can relax now. If project is to be delayed again, all of us would be very pleased to have beta version just to practice some procedures and to fly around (like an civilian aircraft). But it's up to you to decide. Best of luck with the project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) He did say code commonality, not hardware commonality. The latter obviously tends to give the former, but having the former does not mean you have it because of the latter. It all depends on exactly how things were handled originally in code; radars that are quite different could still work on largely the same code if the principles behind their operation is close enough to each other. What I was aiming at with my joke was that I hope that the variant selected is not the MiG-23MS (a downgraded export variant) as it would be the easiest to make from the development point of view since it reused the MiG-21 radar and related systems. In that case the code would be exactly the same so I'm not exactly sure what point are you trying to make here (i.e. what was wrong with my statement?). Edited February 27, 2014 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Glad to see this continuing. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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