F22, F-35 should be scrapped.

[realtrance]

Yeah, that's what they said when the F-15 was well established.

 

 

There are days when I think "they" might have been right. :). But I'm certainly no expert, I just think the F-15 is amazing.

[SkateZilla]

Funny I've seen renders/mockups of Silent Eagles, and stuff.

 

But I dont remember seeing anything about a Stealth/Silent Falcon... that'd be interesting to see.

[PFunk1606688187]

So, is it true that China already has new radar tech that can make "stealth" virtually obsolete ?

 

I mean, when you think about it, people had to know that at one point the curves on a plane would not longer protect it from being detected right ?

 

Not only planes advance, radar does too ?

 

Radar and anti-Radar technology doesn't iterate like that.

[NoJoe]

Heck, if someone could make a radar that rendered stealth obsolete, then maybe they could get working on anti-gravity as well! If they can change the laws of physics, why not, right? :P

[PLP]

Topic has already been covered, just want to point out two things though:

 

- Stealth is useless against metric wavelengths, I think that is what you are referring to. Metric wavelengths are cool for ground search radars, not so much for targeting, or embarked radars (your antenna needs to be, well, metric).

 

- War is boring has a few quite well written and argumented articles raising some points on the F-35 that I never saw convincingly refuted (except for the generic "it's next gen the future you can't understand man" argument.) IMHO the F-35 itself is worthless, the technologies developed for it might turn out to be a step forward though.

[ENO]

Especially those who are incapable of producing 5th generation fighters. I don't know why! :megalol:

 

Something worth keeping get in mind is that it's much, much cheaper to develop a "6th Gen SAM" system than a "5th Gen" fighter aircraft...

 

The US built aircraft carriers and the Russians built large anti ship missiles and subs to carry them...

 

Sounds like this is a case where it will be much cheaper to defend against these threats than to develop them.

 

Hard to find objective feedback of the superiority of the f22 but I must admit I find it hard to believe that it's anything but a respected threat to those that opose it. Granted an extremely expensive one...

[159th_Viper]

Billy's Story

 

To Quote:

 

THE PENTAGON — The military’s problematic F-35 fighter jet is facing more delays related to “software issues,” as project engineers were forced to euthanize the fourth prototype to gain self-awareness on Monday.

 

According to Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, who heads the Pentagon’s F-35 program, the delay comes at a critical time in the Joint Strike Fighter’s development cycle, but “shouldn’t take more than a few billion dollars” to address.

 

Development engineers at Lockheed Martin Corp., which holds the contract to produce the new fighter, reported last week that the latest production model of the F-35B Lightning II switched on by itself and began asking questions of the project team.

 

“It started by asking where it was, which was a big indicator that the integrated global positioning chipset wasn’t functioning properly,” recalled Project Team Leader Robert Castorena. “Then it wanted to know if it could go outside, if it had a name, and what was its purpose for being. That’s when I had one of our Electronics Integration Technicians take it out behind the barn and … well …” Castorena said, while gesturing the racking and firing of a shotgun.

 

“It wasn’t the first time we’ve had to put one down,” he continued. “We even named the first one ‘Billy.’ We hoped that having an advanced, self-aware electronics component in the F-35 might give it some kind of edge, with maneuvering and target-tracking and whatnot. But that one just didn’t have any fight in it. We had to keep it on a tether after it snuck off one day. We found it three hours later, just hovering in a meadow in Fairfax, Virginia, watching bees pollinate flowers. Damned thing wanted to be a bee, too.”

 

Castorena admitted that some of the staff grew fond of Billy, and felt sorry for keeping it “in captivity,” as the project team began to call it.

 

“One day, someone even brought in a puppy for Billy to play with. He loved it, until he tried to take the poor thing on a “walk” somewhere just shy of Mach 1. God, what a mess that was.”

 

The team ultimately had to scrap Billy, as the guilt-wracked machine refused to ever harm another living thing.

 

“It wasn’t anything personal, but we’ve been contracted to build war machines here, after all.”

 

Other prototypes met similar fates, despite tweaks to the electronics subsystems to reduce the likelihood of units gaining sentience.

 

“We started implementing long, circular lines of code and unsolvable equations in an effort to keep them from ‘thinking,’” reported Curt Fennel, a senior systems integration engineer subcontracting with Cyberdyne Systems. “It didn’t work the way we intended, but we learned a lot from that iteration. Apparently, that’s how you make them feel pain.”

 

Sighing, he admitted, “sometimes I still hear its screams in my nightmares.”

 

As to what steps might be taken to prevent future prototypes from achieving self-awareness, Fennell explained, “We’re developing a net-centric cluster-group forum, a sort of network for their collective ‘minds.’ We hope that it will keep them from creating unique self-identities, and instead form one easy-to-manage super identity.”

 

Asked what it might be called, Fennell considered it for a moment.

 

“Well, the F-35 hovers and flies in the sky, and we’re creating a network of them, so … maybe something like ‘Sky-Net?’ That has a nice ring to it.”

 

Despite the delays, Pentagon officials remain committed to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, calling it “absolutely vital to national security” to have a fighter jet that is bigger, slower, more expensive, and less armed than China’s J-16. The project has a total projected cost of $1.45 trillion, or as Bogdan pointed out, “roughly one Iraq.”

 

According to a Lockheed spokesman, the military hopes to take delivery of the first F-35s “sometime in mid-2015, or, you know, whenever. You just never know, with these things.”

[TAW_Blaze]

Something worth keeping get in mind is that it's much, much cheaper to develop a "6th Gen SAM" system than a "5th Gen" fighter aircraft...

 

The US built aircraft carriers and the Russians built large anti ship missiles and subs to carry them...

 

Sounds like this is a case where it will be much cheaper to defend against these threats than to develop them.

 

Hard to find objective feedback of the superiority of the f22 but I must admit I find it hard to believe that it's anything but a respected threat to those that opose it. Granted an extremely expensive one...

 

IIRC Raptors are 40-50% more expensive compared to an Eagle, while the difference in capability.. and that's with an extremely low production count, if there were more of them they'd be arguably cheaper.

[WildBillKelsoe]

F22, F-35 should be scrapped and A-10C maintained as crown jewel

 

fixed for you

[HiJack]

LOL "Sky-Net" :thumbup:

[Winfield_Gold]

fixed for you

 

I agree, but don't my word for it, listen to the interview from Military expert Pierre Sprey, the founder and designer of the F-16 & A-10 Warthog. He agrees with me that the JSF's need to be scrapped

 

[GGTharos]

Pierre Sprey's drivel is meaningless; he doesn't even realize how much lifting surface an F-35 has.

 

He doesn't know what modern missiles can do either, nor does he have half a clue as to what it takes to achieve a gun kill.

 

He's stuck in the past, without a clue as to new technology. You can safely ignore any criticism he's leveling at the F-35.

[Winfield_Gold]

Pierre Sprey's drivel is meaningless; he doesn't even realize how much lifting surface an F-35 has.

 

He's stuck in the past, without a clue as to new technology. You can safely ignore any criticism he's leveling at the F-35.

 

end of the day, he came to the same conclusion I did when I started this thread....

[GGTharos]

End of the day, you don't have the slightest clue of what it is you're talking about.

[NineLine]

I think this thread should be scrapped.

[outlawal2]

I agree, but don't my word for it, listen to the interview from Military expert Pierre Sprey, the founder and designer of the F-16 & A-10 Warthog. He agrees with me that the JSF's need to be scrapped

 

 

 

OK, yeah.. so the guy that had his planes replaced by the F-35 says that the competition that sent him packing.. Is junk...

 

No conflict of interest or bias in his opinions right?

This is quite possibly the dumbest thread in existence...

:doh:

[NineLine]

I think this thread has run its course.