How much to make a module for DCS.

[Marko321]

I am not looking to make a module or I am I looking for specific Confidential Information about a particular Module. I realise its a very open ended question how long is a piece of string etc.

I have always been interested in all aspects of computer simulation design

It really does fascinate me. The other day I read an article about the cost of console games, some went in to the tens of millions. It made me wonder how much a DCS module would cost as the engine is provided by ED you would Then just have to focus on your chosen plane tank heli etc.

I would assume there would be a massive saving just on that alone

What DSC/ED has done with the modular concept is nothing short of genius IMO.

[Silver_Dragon]

By the actual module release time, 1-3 or more years develop time if you count with appropriate resources, accurate info and competent team members. The time has applicable to the module difficult time and the extras with you add to them. Add extra time (unknown) if some features has no improvement into the core engine.

[Marko321]

I would like to think it would be still possible for a team of guys with the Skills to develop a module with out a big budget . back in the earlier days Of Game development some classic games we made this way.

[cichlidfan]

I would like to think it would be still possible for a team of guys with the Skills to develop a module with out a big budget . back in the earlier days Of Game development some classic games we made this way.

 

Flight sims, at this level, aren't the same as those classic games. You also still need a skilled team willing to work, without any promise of compensation, for many years.

[sobek]

I would like to think it would be still possible

 

Yeah that's such a nice thought until you realize that the programmatic complexity of current sims is so far out there that those "back in the days" developers would run away screaming if anybody told them they'd have to fork out the costs for such a long development period out of their own pockets.

 

Edit: Sniped.

[T_A]

Good question , i was also wondering how profitable can a module be , considering it takes lots of men hours to make, and the community is not that large.

[Marko321]

According to a guy I know who works as a 3D model designer for

A milsim company That's also a niche market.

Its about twenty five thousand for a model it takes about six weeks for a exterior model only if you want a fully modelled clickable

Turret/cockpit you could add a substantial amount to that.

But the company in question has military contracts to subsidise the costs.

What I like about the DCS business model is the firm making the proposed

Module does not have to worry about the whole game engine its all there for Them. I would assume there is a cost for using the DCS world environment

But could you imagine trying to built something like the DCS world Environment from scratch the cost would be immense.

[cichlidfan]

What I like about the DCS business model is the firm making the proposed

Module does not have to worry about the whole game engine its all there for Them.

 

You do realize that the same can be said for FSX which has been around for a very long time. The idea isn't new.

[Marko321]

Flight sims, at this level, aren't the same as those classic games. You also still need a skilled team willing to work, without any promise of compensation, for many years.

 

But as far as I am aware its the only engine that allows different development houses to share the one Environment. thus allowing small or even start up Firms access to the milsim market.

[alfredo_laredo]

To give you a general Idea..

 

The Mig21 was asking for $15,000 to be founded.

WW2 Module was asking $100,000 to be founded.

 

Glad to see both exceeded their goals

[Andrei]

As one would always say: it depends :) The cost of development is not just the salary you pay to programmers, modelers and artists. It's also marketing, sourcing, testing and whole lot of other stuff. Not to take into consideration the own complexity of the aircraft being modeled.

I would dare to assume that the development cost of MiG-21 and A-10C given their respective level of complexity varies drastically. Thankfully, U.S. MoD has mostly sponsored us A-10C :)

 

Now if only Russian MoD would be so generous...

[Sceptre]

I would assume that it cost more to make the Huey module than it does to buy a real Huey ;)

[Dejjvid]

It depends on the quality of the developers too. If you have accurate data it's not that hard (compared to a moon landing). But if you lack accurate data, besides programming, you have to reverse engineer the systems.

[NRG-Vampire]

To give you a general Idea..

 

The Mig21 was asking for $15,000 to be founded.

WW2 Module was asking $100,000 to be founded.

 

Glad to see both exceeded their goals

 

mig-21: 1 ac, 4+ yrs

ww2: 5+ ac, 1 map, yrs ???

[Scrim]

How much for a module? The most precious thing in the universe, a child's laughter.

 

And cash, a lot of of cash.

[Pikey]

I can't see the common ground to relate a typical studio dev to any of the listed forum names in the small studios who have been working on modules here. Compare a dev in say Ubisoft who turns up 9-5 does his thing then leaves and is paid on an industry standard wage. Compare him to VEAO or Leatherneck...it's not close since the devs for our modules are invested in the entire business as a partnership of sorts. Are you paying those guys whilst they have hold ups with Bell and BAE licensing negotiation? No, they work off a different principle.

 

It's the love of the genre that holds this together, it's a poor business to be in and thus we need to stick together and support each other else we all lose out.

 

The move to community based development is deliberate, the engine/platform is a small part of this; in fact the extent of MSFS's addons has created an industry and that's your clue: the margin for profit is wider but only merely acceptable in the overall scheme of things, and that's based on MS's terrible platform.

[Marko321]

In the end I think its more time than it is money that's invested in these ventures. Look at VRS and their Rhino, that was 2 guys, and it took them 5 years to complete an unbelievable simulator for FS2004, then had to redo it again to get it ready for FSX. Then came out with an entire weapons simulation. Jon at VRS likes to joke that if he broke down his per hour development cost he made less than a beginning McDonalds employee per hour. But its the passion of these developers and the community that supports them that really makes them what they are. Its amazing what a bunch of lines of code can do these days and the artistry we are seeing. Great time to be a flight simmer for sure!

 

Totally agree if you want to make money design something like candy crush

I don't think you will get rich making misims unless you have lucrative military contracts. I have nothing but respect for the guys that do it.

As i have previously stated the DCS business model may be the only way

We see quality aircraft simulations in the future.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Marko321

[Cobra847]

mig-21: 1 ac, 4+ yrs

ww2: 5+ ac, 1 map, yrs ???

 

You can count the MiG-21 as two aircraft, both very advanced, as most of the work before January 2013 was tossed out. Only a few % of that remains.

 

Secondly, $15.000 is not even close to a real number for the development cost. I haven't had an income for a year now.

[kazereal]

You can count the MiG-21 as two aircraft, both very advanced, as most of the work before January 2013 was tossed out. Only a few % of that remains.

 

Secondly, $15.000 is not even close to a real number for the development cost. I haven't had an income for a year now.

 

Ouch! Let's hope things get better soon..

[Marko321]

You can count the MiG-21 as two aircraft, both very advanced, as most of the work before January 2013 was tossed out. Only a few % of that remains.

 

Secondly, $15.000 is not even close to a real number for the development cost. I haven't had an income for a year now.

 

Its guys like you Cobra that will keep the Milsim market alive

I have no idea what the mig-21 will be like, but all the indications are you And your team have done a outstanding job you certainly deserve to reap financial reward for your work.

And I for one will be purchasing it.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Marko321

[Pizzicato]

To give you a general Idea..

 

The Mig21 was asking for $15,000 to be founded.

WW2 Module was asking $100,000 to be founded.

 

Glad to see both exceeded their goals

 

DCS:WW2 was already receiving other funding at the time of the Kickstarter. Luthier made it clear that the $100,000 was just to give them enough time to polish what they were already building.

 

To give an idea of the true cost of game development (in North America), the studios I've worked at have typically had a man-month cost of around $11,000.

 

That's not what each developer gets paid - it's just what the company has to spend to keep an average employee employed. That includes wages, medical coverage, pension contributions and the associated costs of non-development-teams such as HR and admin plus the costs of electricity, utilities and all of the rest.

 

That means that even a 10 man team costs ~$110,000 per month.

 

My current team is 60+ people, so go do the math. ;)

 

Let's assume that it's WAY cheaper to develop games in Russia and the Ukraine. Even if development costs HALF of that, a 10 man team is still going to burn through around $50,000 per month.

 

I don't know the real numbers for ED and Belsimtek, but my point is just that software development is REALLY expensive and the numbers being thrown around are WAY off base according to my own experience.

[cichlidfan]

DCS:WW2 was already...

 

I don't disagree with your numbers, but I think the OP was thinking about a company/group more like Leatherneck Sim or VEAO in size, although the latter appears to be growing rather quickly. Those guys don't need to have near the overhead functions/personnel that a larger company has to have, merely to operate efficiently.

 

There are still costs and time associated with purely overhead functions (i.e. hiring, paying the monthly bills. meeting with lawyers, etc. ) in a smaller organization but they are often handled in such a way (usually by someone wearing multiple hats) that their actual direct cost is negligible when compared to maintaining full-time staff for such needs.

[Overvolt]

Well costs are high, but the return and designed in the same proportion as the product and quality.

Expected to have a short period to see the platform modules like F-14, F-16, F-117 and other models from decades of 70/90 that marked his time. And many others modules that surely would bring financial returns expected to developers.

[dpatt711]

I don't know anything about under the hood, for a fully modeled (Interior and exterior), textured, rigged, animated, gauges, complete with damage model. You are looking at about $5500 to $13000 + $100-300 per livery.

Edited June 3, 2014 by dpatt711

[Pizzicato]

I don't know anything about under the hood, for a fully modeled (Interior and exterior), textured, rigged, animated, gauges, complete with damage model. You are looking at about $5500 to $13000 + $100-300 per livery.

 

What are you basing those numbers on? I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I'm just curious.