Malaysian airlines 777 crashed in Ukraine

[ericoh]

 

 

Hahahahaha, this shows what most media has become today. Great stuff.

[Falcon_S]

...

 

MSNBC = EYEWITNESS EXCLUSIVE / EYEWITNESS = Staff Sgnt. XY from U.S. EMBASSY IN UKRIANE

 

Then, must be true.

 

EDIT: at 0:50 Passports new and undamaged, although the rest is burned. So, who can believe in this? Insult our intelligence.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Falcon_S

[Aginor]

Why? That's not at all uncommon for plane crashes. They showed lots of other things that weren't badly damaged.

[Bucic]

I know it doesn't rule out anything but the official statements are as follows:

Ukrainian ministry of defense statement: There were no Ukrainian SAM launches today.

http://inforesist.org/minoborony-ukrainy-soobshhaet-o-neprichastnosti-k-avarii-boinga-777/

Ukrainian aviation authority: The Boeing was flying under control of the Dnepropetrovsk ATC and no problems were reported prior to the disappearance from radar screens.

http://inforesist.org/polet-sbitogo-boinga-777-proxodil-bez-zhalob-na-sostoyanie-sudna-ukraerorux/

 

Someone talking about the Boeing being shot down?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D56rdIbGK_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3w1_Kc8lM

D56rdIbGK_g

Fe3w1_Kc8lM

Allegedly separatists but I don't recognize the voices personally. The major sounds like Babai but that's about it. They mention debris location. Petropavlovsk. Does it coincide with the downed 777?

[Bucic]

Why? That's not at all uncommon for plane crashes. They showed lots of other things that weren't badly damaged.

You would thing people have learned at least this about plane crashes...

[Feuerfalke]

MSNBC = EYEWITNESS EXCLUSIVE / EYEWITNESS = Staff Sgnt. XY from U.S. EMBASSY IN UKRIANE

 

Then, must be true.

 

EDIT: at 0:50 Passports new and undamaged, although the rest is burned. So, who can believe in this? Insult our intelligence.

 

Looks like the plane broke up before crashing, so this shouldn't be a surprise at all. You can see in the video how far away the debris is scattered around the actual fire.

[ericoh]

Of course, imagine it going 800-900kph in the moment it gets hit from the missile it will fall apart entirely at those speeds, i doubt anything would catch fire. From there its only debris falling out of the sky.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

154 Dutch, 27 Australian, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesian, 6 British, 4 German, 4 Belgian, 3 Filipino, 1 Canadian, 47 unidentified nationality, 15 crew

 

Rest in peace

[taps]

Air lines also fly over Iraq these days (despite of the ISIL) and over Afghanistan as well. In both countries there are people who have access to SAMs.

I think they are fairly confident that those guys either won't shoot at civil planes or don't have SAMs better than MANPADS.

 

Is ISIL known to have high altitude SAMs? No.

Are the Taliban known to have high altitude SAMs? No.

 

Are all parties in the Ukraine conflict known to have high altitude SAMs? Yes.

Did they likely already use them before this incident? Yes.

 

Sorry, but the decision to fly over the contested area in the Ukraine is absolutely unacceptable in my eyes.

[ericoh]

Is ISIL known to have high altitude SAMs? No.

Are the Taliban known to have high altitude SAMs? No.

 

Are all parties in the Ukraine conflict known to have high altitude SAMs? Yes.

Did they likely already use them before this incident? Yes.

 

Sorry, but the decision to fly over the contested area in the Ukraine is absolutely unacceptable in my eyes.

 

I agree, unacceptable. You dont have to be work in intelligence to know that.

[Yurgon]

154 Dutch, 27 Australian, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesian, 6 British, 4 German, 4 Belgian, 3 Filipino, 1 Canadian, 47 unidentified nationality, 15 crew

 

Rest in peace

 

Indeed, RIP.

[Falcon_S]

R.I.P

 

...Sorry, but the decision to fly over the contested area in the Ukraine is absolutely unacceptable in my eyes.

 

I agree.

 

Changed route:

http://blogs.korrespondent.net/blog/politics/3393954/

 

Guys, I immediately said: "I did not say that did not happen." in my first post. When I think about it - all is totally weird. Situation, the location, the way how it happened, Malaysia, who is to blame, videos... totally ????. Something's up.

[Scrim]

EDIT: at 0:50 Passports new and undamaged, although the rest is burned. So, who can believe in this? Insult our intelligence.

 

You want to believe this is some false flag operation, don't you?

 

Why would everything be burnt? A SAM not even 10% the size of the plane it takes down isn't going to make it evaporate in a ball of flames. It doesn't even contain enough explosives to destroy itself completely. And if you look at pictures of that plane, you'll clearly see that ~90% of it isn't burnt at all. Christ, not even most of the poor souls on board are if you've seen those horrific pictures, unworthy of any respected news outlet.

[Yurgon]

Flightradar24 history page for MH17: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17#3d6095b

 

Also check their Twitter account, e.g.:

 

Less flights over Ukraine. More flights over Bulgaria and Turkey after #MH17

pic.twitter.com/tsGx7NRXtg

 

Just give the servers a little time to serve the request, Flightradar24 seems to be in high demand right now.

[army198527]

I don't even have a response to this one, I don't know what to say, I have friends over there and I am stumped. RIP, and prayers to the family.

[Aginor]

As for the changed route: All of the flights of that line flew the exact same route (give and take a few miles becasue of weather and stuff). There wasn't anything unusual. Except that some *** shot it down or something. But even that isn't confirmed yet AFAIK. Might also have been a bomb (although I admit the SAM is the more likely theory).

[Kenan]

Sorry, but the decision to fly over the contested area in the Ukraine is absolutely unacceptable in my eyes.

 

I agree. Whoever decided to send a civilian aircraft packed with passengers over a war zone (and east Ukraine IS a war zone), is a complete idiot. Already, numerous ukrainian aircrafts have been shot down by Russians (jets and transport planes) so that should have been already a "hint" for civilian aviation to get the hell out of there.

 

Someone decided to gamble with the lives of ~300 people but I guess this time, as I understand civilian flights were using this route before, it definetely didn't pay off..

[SAM77]

I agree. Whoever decided to send a civilian aircraft packed with passengers over a war zone (and east Ukraine IS a war zone), is a complete idiot. Already, numerous ukrainian aircrafts have been shot down by Russians (jets and transport planes) so that should have been already a "hint" for civilian aviation to get the hell out of there.

 

Someone decided to gamble with the lives of ~300 people but I guess this time, as I understand civilian flights were using this route before, it definetely didn't pay off..

 

True!!!!!

 

I can't understand the level of stupidity that led to this incident.

[ObvilionLost]

I know it doesn't rule out anything but the official statements are as follows:

Ukrainian ministry of defense statement: There were no Ukrainian SAM launches today.

http://inforesist.org/minoborony-ukrainy-soobshhaet-o-neprichastnosti-k-avarii-boinga-777/

Ukrainian aviation authority: The Boeing was flying under control of the Dnepropetrovsk ATC and no problems were reported prior to the disappearance from radar screens.

http://inforesist.org/polet-sbitogo-boinga-777-proxodil-bez-zhalob-na-sostoyanie-sudna-ukraerorux/

 

Someone talking about the Boeing being shot down?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D56rdIbGK_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3w1_Kc8lM

D56rdIbGK_g

Fe3w1_Kc8lM

Allegedly separatists but I don't recognize the voices personally. The major sounds like Babai but that's about it. They mention debris location. Petropavlovsk. Does it coincide with the downed 777?

 

Only Petropavlosk that I know of is located in Dnipropetrovsk region. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Petropavlivs'kyi+district,+Dnipropetrovsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@48.4381245,36.427747,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x40def246cbd494c3:0x65eb2ab24dbe3fe6

[PFunk1606688187]

I think its funny that people are talking about this like the Malaysian aircraft was the only one there, like everyone knew it was bad but them, as if its some isolated case of criminal neglect.

 

Lots of aircraft were using this route, its just dumb luck it was them that got shot down. It could just as easily have been a Lufthansa aircraft or something instead.

 

Does anyone know a site like Flightaware that has better coverage for European and Asian flights? It doesn't show the flight history for that part of the world like it does for NA.

[ericoh]

I think its funny that people are talking about this like the Malaysian aircraft was the only one there, like everyone knew it was bad but them, as if its some isolated case of criminal neglect.

 

Lots of aircraft were using this route, its just dumb luck it was them that got shot down. It could just as easily have been a Lufthansa aircraft or something instead.

 

Does anyone know a site like Flightaware that has better coverage for European and Asian flights? It doesn't show the flight history for that part of the world like it does for NA.

 

 

Point is not that it was Malaysia Air. Point is that its a warzone. No civil aircraft should pass over a warzone with potential ground to air threats.

 

Its probably just cheaper to take the short way over east ukraine...

[PFunk1606688187]

I think nobody thought this was possible though. The rebels most likely don't have the capability and until now nobody thought Russia was dumb/reckless/neglectful enough to allow one of their batteries to make this mistake.

 

I mean if anybody thought this was a real danger the airspace would have been closed. Businesses might like to cut corners but risking an entire aircraft for a little fuel economy is not a rational choice any corporation is going to make, not given the costs. This is an entire continent of air traffic that ignored this danger, its beyond finding someone to blame for being reckless.

 

I think its absurd for people to start acting like the biggest issue here is anything other than somebody shot down a civilian airliner. There is a component of this discussion that should address that but too much weight is put on it.

 

Ironically I'd say its safer to fly over Ukraine now than yesterday, even though now everybody is avoiding it like the plague.

[diveplane]

sad events RIP.

[dumgrunt]

Flying over a warzone might seem absurd in hindsight, but from some informed accounts I have received it is not at all unusual. I have a family member who flew with qantas in the 70's and recounted watching the battles over the golan heights; both sides in that conflict had some serious AD and hair trigger to boot.

 

it is plain as day what has happened. If I were the Malays I'd be pretty pissed that the Russians have snuck off with FDR's before the wreckage has cooled. It wont matter though, the NTSB and the Malays will want in. Once the explosive residue gets collected, and radar data analysed, there will be little reasonable doubt.

 

there will be no convincing the tin foil hat brigade either way.

 

Oh and last time the Ukrainians shoot down an airliner by mistake, it was during a live fire exercise that went horribly wrong, and it was a Russian flagged aircraft.

 

Oh and for any suggestion this will broaden the conflict... remember KL 007? that happened during Able archer, and at a time that the cold war got warm (up there with the cuban missile crisis) and there was not much that happened in the aftermath, both sides reacts with cool heads.

 

To anyone reading with relatives or friends on that flight, my most sincere condolences. Australian media hasn't released the list of our dead yet.

[Yurgon]

Does anyone know a site like Flightaware that has better coverage for European and Asian flights? It doesn't show the flight history for that part of the world like it does for NA.

 

I previously posted a link to Flightradar24. Isn't that exactly what you're looking for?

 

I think nobody thought this was possible though.

 

Well I guess the question is: did anyone think at all? Don't airlines have people dedicated to monitoring situations like in Ukraine so they can advise where to fly and where not to fly?

 

According to earlier posts here, some airlines have avoided the region for a while, whereas other airlines have overflown it and make the point that authorities didn't warn them.

 

So, do any airlines fly over Syria these days? Aircraft have been shot down there during the past months, and as an airliner pilot, I would outright refuse to fly a route over that country. According to Flightradar24, there are exactly 0 (commercial, transponding) flights over the country right now, but I didn't check the history. It just looks as if traffic between Europe and the Gulf region is avoiding that country like a plague, turning right around its north-eastern edge.

 

In any case, I'm puzzled that any pilot in his right mind would overfly Syria or (eastern) Ukraine, given the current situation in either country, and I'm even more puzzled that any airline would even consider not taking a detour.

 

I mean, it's not like the first Jumbos that flew right through volcanic ashes and had their engines fail. That was unexpected. But right now, we're talking about war-zones, and there's civilian air-traffic? Wow. Calling that short-sighted would be the understatement of the century.

 

Now I'd just like to point out that the frustration I'm voicing is not directed towards anyone on this forum, but rather at the authorities and the airlines. WTF were these guys thinking?!