Nosewheel steering responsivness

[billeinstein]

……

The relevant Dev has confirmed that the F-86 Sabre nose-wheel actuator has a maximum speed/set time it traverses from extreme left to extreme right, and visa versa, said time being 4 seconds. As such the behaviour In-SIM is spot-on and accords with the afore-said time, ie no bug/correct as modelled.

 

……

 

In all range of taxing/TO speed?

[159th_Viper]

In all range of taxing/TO speed?

 

Yes, speed is set at 4 seconds as opposed to variable.

[Trubshaw]

Yes it is tricky...but isn't that all part of the learning curve of a complex sim?

 

If you want simple nose wheel steering then FC3 craft have a simple learning curve.

 

Me? I am just about getting to grips with nose wheel steering and the Sabre after about 1hour flying time.

 

What about the DCS testers? have you mastered it? and if so how long did it take?

 

But the Sabre is a great addition to DCS in my opinion.

[159th_Viper]

What about the DCS testers? have you mastered it? and if so how long did it take?

 

My first attempt:

 

MomyoXEheT8

 

Take-Off and Landing:

 

-bxZnw_bbD0

 

No problems mastering. Just anticipate changes of direction as needed.

[WinterH]

I don't know, taxiing, taking off and landing the F-86 feels almost as easy as fc3 aircraft, I only had trouble with NWS early on, but it's a breeze once you get used to it.

 

You folks need to see the Fw-190D and then ask yourself if F-86 still feels tricky :)

[Basco1]

Nice landing 159th Viper,and your not using your flaps interesting....I must try this myself,great vids.

 

Just for the record I too don't have a problem with taxiing, taking off and landing the F-86,my biggest problem is trying to find the MiGs,but that's another story.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Basco1

[effte]

Update:

 

What I also neglected to mention in my earlier posts is that 'feelings' often get beaten down worse than the proverbial red-headed stepchild, thus wasting a helluva lot of time taken in the reporting process.......my bad.

 

That said, as fate would dictate, this is incidentally exactly what happened here, illustrating again the importance of corroborating reports/potential issues with substantive documentary evidence.

 

The relevant Dev has confirmed that the F-86 Sabre nose-wheel actuator has a maximum speed/set time it traverses from extreme left to extreme right, and visa versa, said time being 4 seconds. As such the behaviour In-SIM is spot-on and accords with the afore-said time, ie no bug/correct as modelled.

 

We seem to have different views on the purpose of a beta process?

 

To me, the intention is to find potential issues and make sure that they are, in fact, correct. That can be through verifying that they are as they should be, or by finding that they are in fact an error and correcting them.

 

In this case, the devs have double-checked, have data at hand and can verify that the behaviour is correct, even though it is rather peculiar. Thus, we have a system verified to be modelled on the best available data which is what we all want - a happy ending. It could have been a mistake, but it wasn't.

 

So why bother at all? Well, if knowledgeable users/beta testers/domain experts find n peculiarities in the model, one of them will prove to, in fact, be an error. The second to last bug will then in short order be fixed**.

 

The aim is quality assurance, to produce verified accuracy and not necessarily to cause the devs to change anything*. Although a change can be required, a "no action" resolution is just as good.

 

I still find it peculiar, but until better sources come along contradicting the four seconds end to end, I do not want it changed to anything less than four seconds.

 

To me, it most definitely was not effort wasted. To have spent time producing YouTube videos for the same net result - that would have been a wasted effort.

 

Cheers,

/Fred

 

*) A couple of P-51 and D-9 players would be the exception here.

**) The fact that it is an old joke doesn't make it less spot on!

[159th_Viper]

We seem to have different views on the purpose of a beta process?

 

Of course yes.

[effte]

That came out a bit harsher than I intended, my apologies. I know we are very much on the same team here regarding what we want to achieve with regards to the products. With quite a bit of relevant experience in the field, albeit not for the consumer market, I do find myself puzzled by our apparently very different takes on the best way to get there though.

 

It ended well this time though, so I'll play nice until the next thread pops up, when I expect we'll meet in the ring again. :D

 

Didn't pick their minds on the other NWS issue, while you were at it?

 

Cheers,

/Fred

[159th_Viper]

 

Didn't pick their minds on the other NWS issue, while you were at it?

 

Very next on my to-do list.

[bart]

NWS I don't really have an issue with once you get accustomed to it.

 

Watching the landing video earlier I also noticed your flaps up landing, what was the landing speed there? I normally use full flap for landing, and the only thing I have trouble with is stopping the old girl before ending up in the porridge at the end of the runway. The brakes seem to be all or nothing, and if I give it too much brake it starts to skid sideways! Did the sabre have an anti-skid system? Would any others like to comment on the brake issue?

 

Sorry to go a bit off topic....maybe I should have started a new thread on this?

[159th_Viper]

Watching the landing video earlier I also noticed your flaps up landing, what was the landing speed there?

 

About 125 - 130 knots/235 - 240km/h normally in that configuration (60% fuel, no externals).

 

I normally use full flap for landing, and the only thing I have trouble with is stopping the old girl before ending up in the porridge at the end of the runway.

 

Using the airbrake?

 

The brakes seem to be all or nothing, and if I give it too much brake it starts to skid sideways!

 

Brakes seem fine - I get her stopped in 860 metres, give or take a metre.

 

Did the sabre have an anti-skid system?

 

As far as I recall, No.

 

 

 

To aid you here's a quick mission I just flew illustrating the landing and stop from cockpit view and then external for reference: As above, touchdown at 235km/h, stopping 860 metres from point of touchdown, no flaps.

 

Vid starts with me coming out of the break:

 

veSKFhrKcWA

 

Now obviously I hasten to add that such braking behaviour is not in any way realistic as I suppose that I would have exploded the tyres IRL had I done so in a real Sabrejet: I am doing so in this particular instance merely to illustrate that the Jet can be stopped in a short distance, In-SIM. As an aside, I usually do not utilize the brakes at all but let it roll out till the parking area.

 

In any event, hope that helps :)

[bart]

Thanks Viper.......nice landing!

 

Helps a lot.

[SkateZilla]

The brakes seem to be all or nothing, and if I give it too much brake it starts to skid sideways! Did the sabre have an anti-skid system? Would any others like to comment on the brake issue?

 

 

I think I set my pedals to only allow 70% max pressure on the brakes, I actually might be turning them down more.

[Cibit]

I think I set my pedals to only allow 70% max pressure on the brakes, I actually might be turning them down more.

How is this done mate?

[effte]

I don't expect 70% is enough to hold her on full RPM prior to take-off though? Me, I'd go the nonlinear route.

 

Cibit,

options -> controls -> select brake axis -> axis tune, adjust or somesuch, lower right on the dialog frame.

[bart]

How is this done mate?

 

You assign a control, say your rudder pedal toe brakes to their corresponding left or right wheels in the game settings under "axis controls" (don't forget to click "invert" otherwise the brakes will be on when you are not pressing the pedals!!) then click on the "axis tune" tab at the bottom of the screen and set the "saturation y" to 70. I think!

 

Anyway I've just done this, well actually I've set the left hand throttle on the HOTAS to control the brakes for now, as it's difficult to push the left and right pedals to the exact same amount and therefore stop any induced yaw for testing purposes. Also I can hopefully see how much pressure I'm putting on the brakes by looking at the throttle lever position. That's the theory anyway.... right, off to test in the VA server now. :joystick:

 

UPDATE...Forget the saturation y thing....that applied 30% of brake with the brake off! So I left x and y at 100% and didn't invert the brake control (the further I "opened" the throttle the more brake was applied) I found I needed VERY little "throttle" movement to get the brakes to give enough force to slow down fairly quickly without locking the wheels up. It seems to me the way they are set up in the module is a bit aggressive. Anyway the way I have it set up at the moment it works for me.

 

However I did end up in the porridge at the side of the runway due to the NWS issue that this thread is about before I went off at a tangent!!! sorry guy's.

 

With the NWS I must have released the engage button when I had some steering on, and the system "remembered" where it was when I released it, after landing without any pedal on (centred) I pressed the NWS engage button on my HOTAS and this caused the aircraft to shoot off in the direction it was in the last time I released the NWS engaged button.....putting me in the porridge again!!! That surely isn't how it's supposed to work is it!!

Edited August 13, 2014 by bart

[effte]

That'll teach you to follow the flight manual and not use NWS during the landing roll-out. ;)