How to Land the Dora

[weta904]

My Dora landings improved a lot once I started monitoring slip. Aim to touch down with the ball centred. Then pull the stick back to lock the tailwheel as mentioned previously.

[Weegie]

My Dora landings improved a lot once I started monitoring slip. Aim to touch down with the ball centred. Then pull the stick back to lock the tailwheel as mentioned previously.

 

Yup I finally managed to at least partially tame it and get it on the deck most landings in one piece.

 

That's a good piece of advice.

 

The "tricks" that work for me are

 

Get the Flaps and Gear down early, way early, I cannot (well yet anyway) do the arcing and straighten up at last moment approaches. If your struggling give yourself lots of room.

 

Let the aircraft settle then begin your approach from a good distance out. Its important that you line up the runway early jiggling at the last mo is usually fatal for me.

 

Once its settled at best use the rudder sparingly, rudder inputs send the nose bobbing everywhere.

 

Airspeed around 220kph, but I have no trouble up to 250 either. Keep your eye between runway line up, ASI, VSI and the Turn/Slip/Bank/Artifical Horizon gauge. You want that horizontal bar totally level and a fraction above the aircraft symbol.

 

I aim to put the nose a little before the threshold and I find a flatter approach works better than a steep one. Not so flat though that you loose site of the runway entirely for more than a few seconds on finals.

 

As you cross the threshold first make sure your straight, don't panic there is quite a lot of runway, first things first. You should be below 200 say 180 ASI and engine below 1200RPM, usually below 1000RPM

 

Next VSI, I sometimes introduce just a whiff of throttle for a second if I need to check descent. Ideally you want it less than 1 but no more than 2.5 m/s.

 

Flare watching VSI (you should be straight already) If you are relatively inexperienced like me be prepared for the bounce, just bring it up wings level and flare it again.

 

Once down stick back quickly, rudder inputs, followed by brake inputs to keep her straight.

 

The big thing for me is prep, if your lined up and configured early you have less to do on finals, and the more you can lessen that load the better. Introducing the combined Turn/Slip/Bank/Horizon instrument into my scan really helped me too.

 

My pilot skills are badly wanting and my landings usually brutal, but most times I don't break the aircraft, so that's a start for me.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Weegie
spelling

[Yo-Yo]

THe good point - initially try to land Dora with 10-15% of fuel. It helps not to overflare it (better stability due to forward CoG).

The second good point - learn to estimate the distance between wheels and the ground. You must hang the plane not more than in 0.5 m over the ground. Then just wait and Dora will fall as a grandpiano from 7th floor... :)

[golani79]

Not sure if anyone here speaks german but when I had troubles getting the landing right in the beginning I found this document:

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Diverses/Start%20und%20Landetechnik.pdf

 

Works like a charm for me (speeds are varying a bit).

[effte]

From the real world:

Don't:s.

1) You should not have your head inside staring at the VSI or other gauges. After the final speed check crossing the threshold, it is strictly heads out.

 

Cheating with heads-down is easier in the sim, as it does not require refocusing and as you can have the virtual VSI closer to the direction you should be looking (see below). It is not a good practise to get used to though.

 

 

2) You really can't land wings level or with the ball centered. Any crosswind (and there will always be a little, outside of poorly set up simulator scenarios) and you have to line up with the runway with rudder and lower the upwind wing to remove drift. That means landing on the upwind wheel. It's not a bad thing though. I find I tend to bounce more (real world) when there's no crosswind to speak of. The rotation to level after touching down the upwind wheel acts as additional shock absorber travel.

 

Do.

If you cannot land without resorting to going heads down, I suspect you have discovered an error which is very common behind bad landings out in the real world - you need to consider where you direct your attention, i e where you look.

 

The way human perception works is that we go where we look. It is the same on motorbikes, in cars - and in aeroplanes. (Google keyword for those who want to learn more: "optic flow".)

 

On final, you focus your gaze on the touch down point. The crucial part is that as you initiate the roundout and flare, you need to move your focus to the far end of the runway. This will make the transition to hold-off natural and greatly reduce the tendency to either balloon, stall in from too high or smack it down before the aircraft is ready.

 

This simple change of focus makes all the difference in the world - in the real world and in simulated flight. Even today, when I botch landings, I often find that my mistake was not moving my gaze.

 

Once you are down, aileron into the wind and stick full back once you're in a three point attitude - and keep flying until the prop has stopped and the shocks are in. :)

 

Cheers,

/Fred, certainly (hopefully) repeating advice given a couple of times earlier in this thread

[Weegie]

Mmmm Some food for thought there. I am well aware of the go where you look advice having ridden motorcycles for over 30 years.

 

My point about using the attitude gauge was really meant for the approach rather than over the threshold. I was ignoring it and looking out. Then surprising myself that I was at a slight angle and trying to correct on the runway.

 

I could be wrong but most folks initially (well me anyway) will be doing the opposite, focusing on the runway touchdown point and hardly glancing at all at the instruments. Once I started to use the additional info from the gauges it really made a difference in setting up an accurate approach.

 

As I don't fly in the real world I wouldn't know about what to do in a real aircraft, but checking the VSI before final flare works in DCS for me.

 

Once I garner experience I probably won't need it, but right now I need the crutch. Its surely easier if you fly "real world" and there lies the problem with experience.

 

What comes as second nature when on the motorcycle peeling through a series of bends, took a long time to learn, yet looks effortless and I hardly think about it. What an experienced pilot, sim or real world, finds second nature, is daunting and probably overloads the newbie.

 

People need to progress little by little, that's the nature of human learning, baby steps.

 

Just saying - I'll get ma anorak.

[effte]

Whatever works, just suggesting good practises to reduce relearning later. :)

 

On the approach you do need to get the airspeeds right so you should use the air speed indicator. Getting the approach angle right is a lot harder in a sim than in real life IMO, so that's where the VSI could be a viable crutch. When doing IFR work up in the clouds, you're going by airspeed and VSI so it's a completely valid practise - even though you shall be heads out most of the time when flying visually.

 

If visual, I'd suggest leaving the attitude indicator out of it and go by visual attitude (out the window), ASI and VSI. If you're in the feet and knots world, the rule of thumb is airspeed (strictly ground speed, but you don't have that readily available) times ten divided by two (i e an easier way of calculating airspeed times five) to go from knots to vertical speed fpm for a three degree glide slope.

 

(120 knots = 1200/2 = 600 fpm)

 

Unfortunately we do not have those units in DCS, but similar rules can be figured out.

 

Get the airspeed right, get the VSI to match the ASI and you're good, no matter what the AI tells you.

 

Once you have the sight picture figured out, you will find that you no longer need to reference the VSI to get the proper approach angle.

 

Crutches are like training wheels, they can be real hard and take a lot of re-learning to get rid of - and you'll find yourself reverting to not counter-steering when you should have later. A good analogy to use which will unfortunately only work amongst bikers. :)

 

Cheers!

/Fred

[Weegie]

Gotcha & Thanks

 

I wasn't meaning in any sense to counter what you said just pointing out how I was getting over the hurdles as of now.

 

I'll certainly give your advice a go and you are correct about the training wheels.

 

There is a bit for me to take on board & its appreciated

 

The counter steering took a while to dial in when I first encountered modern rubber. At first all I could do was ride straight and level and could not figure out why the plot wouldn't turn.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Weegie

[Little_D]

Hi gents,

 

after my own problems in the beginning to get the Fw190D-9 in a so called "three-point configuration" down. I start to make a little trainingsvideo for my wingman to show him how i bring the Fw190D-9 nice and soft down.

 

so have fun:

 

 

thank you for watching.

 

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited September 11, 2015 by Little_D

[TheSkipjack95]

Very well done man.

[Dieter]

Sehr interessant. Danke für das video :thumbup:

[Weegie]

Not only very instructive but also a beautifully made video

 

Danke

[LeCuvier]

For me, Dora take offs tend to be tricky and very "random". Sometimes she will get airborne smoothly and sometimes I end up in a pile of burning rubble. I keep my tail wheel locked until 170 km/h accelerating at a constant 2500 rpm but a slight right rudder correction is always required. Not releasing the rudder on time however, just as the aircraft becomes airborne ends with a nasty instant roll to port side which is usually unrecoverable.. :(

The Dora unfortunately doesn't have a "trim rudder" function, and if the rudder is not applied right during take off and landing, take-offs are a bit tricky and landing is more like Russian roulette (in my experience).

I therefore activate the option "Auto Rudder" under Options / Special / FW-190D. This makes the take-off a piece of cake, and landing quite manageable.

PS: 1. I agree with the other guys: go to full throttle before you start rolling

2. I really admire the pilots who flew this kite as the real thing of course did not have an auto-rudder function

[LeCuvier]

Toll!

How do you guys make these videos?

[NineLine]

As i dont know what is wrong on this forum with the youtube link, because on all other forums where i posted this video it works, here the link to the video.

Sorry for the problems.

 

I fixed it, for future reference all you need is this chunk of the link between the youtube tags 5SyG9iVEhYA.

 

Edit your original post to see what I did.

[Little_D]

I fixed it, for future reference all you need is this chunk of the link between the youtube tags 5SyG9iVEhYA.

 

Edit your original post to see what I did.

 

 

Hi SiThSpAwN,

 

thx for the fix, next time i make it right :smartass:

 

regards

 

Little_D

[BSS_Sniper]

Give her full power insantly to start its not like slowly increase power in the pony.

 

You can't give full power immediately in a tail wheel aircraft and you shouldn't.

[Yo-Yo]

You can't give full power immediately in a tail wheel aircraft and you shouldn't.

 

Erich Brunotte told me that he used not to add power gradually and it has sense because it gives more rudder power at the start. Moreover, he told that the guys who did not - they had troubles at start.

[Pman]

Erich Brunotte told me that he used not to add power gradually and it has sense because it gives more rudder power at the start. Moreover, he told that the guys who did not - they had troubles at start.

Erich told me the same also when I had the pleasure of meeting him.

 

Pman

[Solty]

I think it was even in the video that ED posted, that Mr. Brunotte said that you should apply full power and go and no breaks needed for steering too.

 

Not every plane is a civilian liner @BSS Sniper.

[golani79]

Yes, Erich also mentioned it in the video interview.

[Crumpp]

Not every plane is a civilian liner @BSS Sniper.

 

Wow.....:doh:

 

 

First of all, to get in the seat of a large transport category aircraft, you have to have no small measure of experience. Especially if you work for a US based carrier, which require up to 6 times the flying experience of many other nations.

 

What BSS_Sniper said:

 

You can't give full power immediately in a tail wheel aircraft and you shouldn't.

 

Is absolutely correct and is the general principle taught to every tail wheel pilot. Even in short field take off's, with brakes set, you run the power up in a controlled manner. Not all taildraggers have effective rudders at taxi speed with an increase in power.

 

In some really powerful airplanes, you would not have enough rudder to counteract these forces, so power is carefully applied and increased thought the takeoff roll so you don't run out of rudder.

 

http://www.stick-rudder.com/PDF-Files/The-Taildragger.pdf

 

The FW-190 is both powerful and equipped with an effective rudder.

 

That is why Eric used the technique he did which IS a departure from normal technique used for a World War II fighter.

 

Yo-Yo says:

Erich Brunotte told me that he used not to add power gradually and it has sense because it gives more rudder power at the start.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

I think the trouble here is how we call things, how many time means fast or slow? BSS is right, you can't go full power straight ahead in any aircraft, even tricycle gear not to mention tail draggers, but you can't also mess around with the throttle. The thing is straight ahead, no hurry but no delay also, that's certainly something fast (decided I would say) but not too fast. And how we measure how much time is too fast or too slow and how much is the right way?

 

S!

[Crumpp]

I agree Ala13_ManOWar.

[Pman]

I think the trouble here is how we call things, how many time means fast or slow? BSS is right, you can't go full power straight ahead in any aircraft, even tricycle gear not to mention tail draggers, but you can't also mess around with the throttle. The thing is straight ahead, no hurry but no delay also, that's certainly something fast (decided I would say) but not too fast. And how we measure how much time is too fast or too slow and how much is the right way?

 

S!

 

From my conversation with him he intimated less then 2 seconds, more like 1 second from idle to full beans.

 

I will go with his record over events over any paper document, after all he had to put his own life on the line flying the real ones :)

 

Pman