so they built them with no aileron and rudder trim

[leafer]

How do you fly straight and level when it just want to roll left? The only thing you can do is to make adjustment every few seconds. this is crazy, no?

[Stonehouse]

Only guessing but assume they have trim tabs which are preset on the ground to suit a particular speed/throttle setting. So I think if you try adjusting your throttle in level flight you will eventually find a "cruise" setting that doesn't require or requires much less control input to fly straight and level. I'm not sure what the 190D had in real life but I do know 109s had trims set by the ground crews which were not adjustable in flight.

[leafer]

If that's how they did it then ED ought to have an option for us to tinker before flight. This is crazy tedious.

[MiloMorai]

Trim was set for a specific speed range. Above or below that speed, stick and rudder pedals input was required.

 

Old joke: 109 pilots had one strong leg and one weak leg.

[javelina1]

Trim? the Germans thought it was overrated... :music_whistling: :) ;)

[leafer]

All that engineering geniuses and they left out the most basic, fundamental function in an aircraft. We'll let the Yanks have their aileron and rudder trims. The Führer was adamant about not having our boys bobbing up and down on long flights! Sigh...

[Soulres]

All that engineering geniuses and they left out the most basic, fundamental function in an aircraft. We'll let the Yanks have their aileron and rudder trims. The Führer was adamant about not having our boys bobbing up and down on long flights! Sigh...

Trim wasn't Basic or Fundimental. Germans Relied on Trained,Awake and Aware Pilots. Just like Boeing Vs Airbus in Now-adays world.

Besides, when flying long flights in the P51D your fighting Trim instead of head up in scanning the skies.:pilotfly:

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

As much as in many other Fw190 and Me109 models there was no VSI!

 

Fly the airplane, do not look at the instruments!

 

Also bare in mind that the roll axis is rather "soft" IRL, thus making a natural compensation for the torque effects ( torque from engine and prop rotation + gyroscopic effects + p-factor + asymmetric slipstream... ) easy to compensate for in terms of the roll axis.

 

The Fw190 was a lot easier to keep in coordination with the rudder compared to the Me109. If we ever get the Me109 in DCS, and the same talented team who gave us the p51d and now this SUPERB Fw190 D9 is behind it, I am sure we will know what it means for the german Me109 pilots to have a strong and a weak leg :-)

[Sceptre]

If the plane wants to roll to the right, just apply a little left rudder. This works for me at least.

[Foul Ole Ron]

If the plane wants to roll to the right, just apply a little left rudder. This works for me at least.

 

It'll stop the roll but the ball won't be centred so you'll be yawing through the sky generally.

 

I've always found it strange they didn't at least implement rudder trim. All other airforces recognised it as useful to ease pilot workload during extended flight. Pilots who flew captured versions always commented on the absence as a negative trait.

[Vitesse2l]

IRL untrimmed control forces get tiring quite quickly.

[Mainstay]

I dont know what the story is with the trimtabs but when im flying her she keeps pulling to the left. I tried the specific speed range to notice a difference but there was non. So i guess i would like to set the trim tab a bit more on the ground but we dont have this option.

 

Can we expect trhis in the future?

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I dont know what the story is with the trimtabs but when im flying her she keeps pulling to the left. I tried the specific speed range to notice a difference but there was non. So i guess i would like to set the trim tab a bit more on the ground but we dont have this option.

 

Can we expect trhis in the future?

 

It's trimmed for speed and RPM. Don't recall exactly the combination, but have already used it a few times, in cruise.

Edited August 9, 2014 by jcomm

[cichlidfan]

It's trimmed fro speed and RPM. Don't recall exactly the combination, but have already used it a few times, in cruise.

 

Then there should be an easy answer, from the coder responsible,...

 

...What settings is the plane trimmed for?

 

I am betting that the original pilots were able to get that answer from their ground crew.

[Altflieger]

It's either 2100 rpm or 2400 rpm AFAIK...

[Fox One]

Unfortunately I haven't seen any info about D-9 speed where it should be trimmed, but I found this interesting info in the pilot's notes part of the manual Bedienungsvorschrift-Fl for Fw 190 A-1 to A-8 variants.

 

It says at an altitude of 1500m and a speed of 500Km/h, with pitch trim indicator on 0, the plane must be trimmed and must "fly straight", suggesting it should be trimmed in all 3 axes. They say it is allowed a deviation of maximum one needle width to + or - on the pitch trim indicator.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Will try it latter at home and post a track...

[HugePanic]

Both the BF-109 and the FW190 did not fly for several hours. Itś more in the area of 90min.

[msalama]

What settings is the plane trimmed for?

 

For common cruise settings IIRC. I'm sure this has been answered already, but can't remember where. Sorry :(

[Maverick-X]

Not having roll and yaw trim is not that big of a deal if you ask me. If you are flying the mustang and try to keep her trimmed so good that you don't have to do any input at all is more of a task than simply keep her flying as you want it to.

 

EDIT: I've managed to cruise-trim her at roughly 1850rpm, 390km/h at sea level

Edited August 9, 2014 by Maverick-X

[El_Marta]

My personal guess is that it is just a "cultural" habit like having your car shifting gears automatically or doing it manually onyour own.

 

Both concepts have their pros and cons.

[effte]

IRL untrimmed control forces get tiring quite quickly.

 

That is very far from being an absolute truth. I mainly fly aircraft with only pitch trim, and it's really not something I think about. The design stability takes care of short term disturbances and the long term divergence on the axes concerned is so slow (low rate of divergence) that it really gets lost in the noise - there's always a wind gust to correct before the roll divergence becomes something you have to actively counter.

 

In an aerobatics aircraft, or for that matter a fighter with endurance of an hour or two, a greater rate of divergence can be tolerated. By design, the aircraft is intended to be flown more actively.

 

In the aircraft I fly which do have rudder and aileron trim, I have yet to use them, apart from checking them before flight.

 

The heavier the rudder forces, the more tiring it will become, obviously, and heavy high-powered aircraft tend to come with larger rudder forces - but you'll have to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis rather than through blanket statements.

 

Cheers,

/Fred

[Mobius_cz]

This is from topic "How to fly Dora" by Yo-Yo

"Currently in DCS the rudder is balanced for cruise at 2200-2400 rpm, though the required rudder input is small for the higher power ratings and corresponding speeds."

[Paradox]

I am told that it was the same in most (perhaps all?) Spitfires as well.

[Foul Ole Ron]

I am told that it was the same in most (perhaps all?) Spitfires as well.

 

Every mark of Spitfire had rudder trim installed.