[REQUEST] Cockpit closed but can hear other engines...

[Krupi]

So I have been waiting for someone to bring this up but no one has yet (Shockingly) so please can the external engines sounds be reduced, I should not be able to hear the sound of another aircraft over my own.

 

Not only from a realism point of view but also from a tactical point of view... Dare I mention the "sound radar" :helpsmilie: :huh:

[NineLine]

I'll look into it, thanks!!

[SlipBall]

From what I had heard/listening during a BF 109 cockpit recording in Real life of her joining a formation, other aircraft could be heard...so In RL: I think it is your engine RPM level and the closing distance thing, between the aircraft that determines being able to hear them or not

Edited August 13, 2014 by GT 5.0

[IvanK]

You cant hear other aircraft of this class in close formation. There is an exceptional piece of video of a Mustang formation team display taken from the wingman's cockpit. All you hear is your own engine sound and airflow noises.

(I will go find it and post it here). Not quite in the same league but from personal experience 2 YAK52s in formation all you hear is your own aircraft.

 

I have also asked this question of a personal friend who is current on P40F,P51D and Spitfire VIII/XVI He said the same even adding that he couldn't even hear an F18 that he was sitting in formation with.

 

Different for jets though as F18 sitting on the wing of another F18 can you can hear thrust changes in lower speed range less than about 300knots.

 

found it ...demonstrates quite clearly all you can hear is Airflow and your own engine.

 

 

Sadly Big Beautiful doll is no more.

 

Another one:

 

Edited August 13, 2014 by IvanK

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

thx Krupi for bringing up this thread!

[Merlin-27]

Yes agreed. Although, it has saved my butt a few times... I should not hear an enemy aircraft pull onto my 6.

[SlipBall]

I can understand why this issue is important for the on-line pilots, but for that 109 I did hear the other formation aircraft...so is close to RL sound important, with the coming K ?

[Robo.]

Definitely +1 on this issue.

[Robin_Hood]

He said the same even adding that he couldn't even hear an F18 that he was sitting in formation with.

 

To be fair, the F-18 was probably near idle to keep up and so didn't make a lot of noise. At airshows with that kind of formation, you can barely hear the jet, so I guess it makes sense that inside the cockpit with the prop engine noise, you wouldn't hear an almost idle jet besides you.

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with what you said, of course. But with an afterburning F-18 it might have been different

[SlipBall]

Here is the one that I mentioned beginning at about 9:00 the deep rumble of other aircraft can be heard. Would the 109 pilots helmet filter this out, I just don't know...ignore the picture, I do ;)

 

 

Edited August 17, 2014 by GT 5.0

[iFoxRomeo]

You cant hear other aircraft of this class in close formation. There is an exceptional piece of video of a Mustang formation team display taken from the wingman's cockpit. All you hear is your own engine sound and airflow noises.

(I will go find it and post it here). Not quite in the same league but from personal experience 2 YAK52s in formation all you hear is your own aircraft.

 

I have also asked this question of a personal friend who is current on P40F,P51D and Spitfire VIII/XVI He said the same even adding that he couldn't even hear an F18 that he was sitting in formation with.

 

Different for jets though as F18 sitting on the wing of another F18 can you can hear thrust changes in lower speed range less than about 300knots.

 

found it ...demonstrates quite clearly all you can hear is Airflow and your own engine.

 

[YOUTUBE]

Sadly Big Beautiful doll is no more.

 

Another one:

 

[YOUTUBE]

 

In both videos I do hear supersaturated microphones.

That´s no reference for my ears.

 

Hearing is a very selective thing, as many things are in human perception.

How often did someone call you while you were in an intense situation, e.g. dogfight at the pc, and you didn´t realize the call?

 

Did you try to communicate in a loud environment? Is does work till a point where your ears hurt because of the sound pressure.

 

I think this thopic is not that easy as one could say "you can´t hear an aircraft inside an aircraft". There are many factors to consider. E.g. loudness of your aircraft/other aircraft (e.g. engine low power state vs. full power), approach speed (doppler effect), insulation of your aircraft, insulation of your ear protection etc.

 

Why does a multi engine bomber sound like it sounds?

Do you hear more than one engine inside a B-17?

 

And what about your sound system? Headphones or large speakers? What is the fequency response of your phones/sound system(and room)? Maybe your sound system accentuates the frequency of an frequency-shifted(doppler) airplane.

 

Acoustics is a bit**.

 

I do think it(outside aircraft sound) is quite good solved in DCS.

 

Might sound stupid, but: Do you guys use a sound mod?

[MACADEMIC]

From own experience, you don't hear anything from the outside world inside a high powered complex piston aircraft, even when flying in close formation with another, similar aircraft. I heard that WWII pilots said they couldn't even hear a B-17 from very close by.

 

These sound effects are nicely done in DCS, however they're not realistic.

 

Best is to give a server host the option to enable/disable, same for SP.

 

MAC

[iFoxRomeo]

From own experience, you don't hear anything from the outside world inside a high powered complex piston aircraft, even when flying in close formation with another, similar aircraft. I heard that WWII pilots said they couldn't even hear a B-17 from very close by.

 

These sound effects are nicely done in DCS, however they're not realistic.

 

Best is to give a server host the option to enable/disable, same for SP.

 

MAC

How "loud" is it inside a high powered piston plane. Is there a measurement of a Mustang or BF109 available? Inside and outside. Idle and full power... I never flew such an aircraft. I simply don´t know.

 

Till beginning of this month I would have said that is is quite improbable to hear anything outside of one´s aircraft, but I was taught better(my personal experience - but no high powered piston engine aircraft involved). And that´s why I wouldn´t exclude this anymore.

 

Mac you could ask Erich next time you talk to him, if he ever heard another aircraft other than his.

 

If you have 2 similar sound sources, one closer to you than the other it is difficult(or even impossible) to hear/perceive the remoter one. But having two dissimilar sounding sources, it should be possible to hear/perceive the remoter source.

A 4-bladed constant speed variable pitch prop does not sound like a 3-bladed constant pitch variable speed prop.

 

Both you Mac and IvanK have experience with similar piston aircraft(similar sound) in formation(no doppler effect). For me the question is: Is it possible to hear another hp piston aircraft, which is not the same type of a/c you are sitting in(and not at full power), approaching you at a speed >50km/h, applying up to full power and passing you at a close distance. Have you had this situation?

[NineLine]

Ask Yo-Yo, he has flown in a P-51.... ask him if he could hear anything but his heart beating :)

[ZaltysZ]

Brains inhibit constant/monotonic/repetitive stimuli so that it would not become overexciting and other stimuli still could be picked up. Sound is just a stimuli, and it can also be easily inhibited. That is why we get used to load pc fans, can sleep with city noises, can hear other talking with loud music in the background and so on. Brains filters out the background and amplifies what stands out in it. Because of it B17 next to your wing might be harder to hear, than whistling BF, which passes you quickly.

[MACADEMIC]

How "loud" is it inside a high powered piston plane. Is there a measurement of a Mustang or BF109 available? Inside and outside. Idle and full power... I never flew such an aircraft. I simply don´t know.

 

Till beginning of this month I would have said that is is quite improbable to hear anything outside of one´s aircraft, but I was taught better(my personal experience - but no high powered piston engine aircraft involved). And that´s why I wouldn´t exclude this anymore.

 

Mac you could ask Erich next time you talk to him, if he ever heard another aircraft other than his.

 

If you have 2 similar sound sources, one closer to you than the other it is difficult(or even impossible) to hear/perceive the remoter one. But having two dissimilar sounding sources, it should be possible to hear/perceive the remoter source.

A 4-bladed constant speed variable pitch prop does not sound like a 3-bladed constant pitch variable speed prop.

 

Both you Mac and IvanK have experience with similar piston aircraft(similar sound) in formation(no doppler effect). For me the question is: Is it possible to hear another hp piston aircraft, which is not the same type of a/c you are sitting in(and not at full power), approaching you at a speed >50km/h, applying up to full power and passing you at a close distance. Have you had this situation?

 

No, haven't had such situation with a close pass. It's an interesting question for Erich, I'll ask him how he remembers it.

 

MAC

[fastfreddie]

From own experience, you don't hear anything from the outside world inside a high powered complex piston aircraft, even when flying in close formation with another, similar aircraft. I heard that WWII pilots said they couldn't even hear a B-17 from very close by.

 

These sound effects are nicely done in DCS, however they're not realistic.

 

Best is to give a server host the option to enable/disable, same for SP.

 

MAC

 

I've heard aces in interviews state pretty much say the same thing and that included the guns being barely audible on their own plane. They've also stated that the flash from the gun barrels was nothing pronounced like the movies and one german ace mentions in the Bf109 that the mirror was pretty much useless because of the planes vibrations shaking it. He said if you could actually see them in the mirror it was already too late.

[[DBS]TH0R]

found it ...demonstrates quite clearly all you can hear is Airflow and your own engine.

 

 

Unless I am mistaken, other two planes can be faintly heard in this video. Whether the pilot would hear them over own engine sounds and while wearing a headset is another thing...

[iFoxRomeo]

No, haven't had such situation with a close pass. It's an interesting question for Erich, I'll ask him how he remembers it.

 

MAC

Thanks MAC

[Yo-Yo]

As far as I remember, there were no signs of another Merlin coming right to the right wing except radio... but there are many aspects of human sound perception that make very big differences between live impressions and record perception.

By the way, the human ear is very non-linear system at the high levels of sound pressure. For example, I can barely understand the lyrics at live performance but it is much more clear as you listen the same concert recorded with a mike from the same place you sat.

So I just want to say that recorded sound can contain second airplane sound and it can be detected as you listen the record at comfortable level of sound pressure.

As it is wise not to listen in-game sound at the real levels the total sound picture we have in game is much closer to the recorded sound. DCS sound engine calculates the sound levels from different sources regarding the distances from them to the player. It takes in account canopy attenuation and special in-cockpit sound sources. But at least now the current engine can not handle with human ear non-linearity effects.

[Yo-Yo]

How "loud" is it inside a high powered piston plane. Is there a measurement of a Mustang or BF109 available? Inside and outside. Idle and full power... I never flew such an aircraft. I simply don´t know.

 

 

More than 130 dBa at the start (55 inches not 61!) and a little bit less when in flight. The microphone I used has max sound pressure 130 dBa and it was overloaded. Not the subsequent amplifiers.

 

In flight you have two powerful sources of sound: exhaust stacks in 1 meter in front of you and a prop in 3-4 meters. Generally, the sound level depends on the distance according a rule: 6 dB as the distance increases two times. So, the same plane at 15 m will sound approximately minus 12-24 dB.

Due to the effect of suppression and keeping in mind that both spectras are very similar, it is very possible that the sound of the second plane can not be heard.

[sobek]

Due to the effect of suppression and keeping in mind that both spectras are very similar, it is very possible that the sound of the second plane can not be heard.

 

Masking plus, not to forget, possible distortion of the ear itself.

[iFoxRomeo]

More than 130 dBa at the start (55 inches not 61!) and a little bit less when in flight. The microphone I used has max sound pressure 130 dBa and it was overloaded. Not the subsequent amplifiers....

 

Wow... >130dBa is loud. I hope you have had good earprotection.

And it wasn´t significant quieter at cruise setting?

 

...Due to the effect of suppression and keeping in mind that both spectras are very similar, it is very possible that the sound of the second plane can not be heard.

 

I totally agree. That´s why you probably won´t hear the other(but same type) aircraft during formation flight.

 

Imagine following situation now(sorry for repeating myself).

Mustang at cruise setting/speed 2400rpm/36mp(with, I suggest, lower spl than 130dBa, but you will hopefully tell me), a Dora (different sound spectrum) approaching from behind with great approachspeed(doppler effect) and full power(for maximum noise) passing at a really low distance. Or the other way round. Dora cruising and Mustang approaching. In this situation I would expect to hear the approaching aircraft. But only very short prior passing me.

:pilotfly:

 

I hope you guys don´t get me wrong. I just want to read your opinion. It´s not a problem for me having the external sound inside a DCS A/C removed.

[IvanK]

Both you Mac and IvanK have experience with similar piston aircraft(similar sound) in formation(no doppler effect). For me the question is: Is it possible to hear another hp piston aircraft, which is not the same type of a/c you are sitting in(and not at full power), approaching you at a speed >50km/h, applying up to full power and passing you at a close distance. Have you had this situation?

 

 

In my case I can say yes I have had this sort of experience. I am a member of a 6 Ship Formation team that comprises 4 YAK52's and 2 CJ6 Nanchangs. All of these aircraft are equipped with M14P engines (Changs had M14's put in them replacing the Huosai). I have yet to hear any of the other teams aeroplanes including in opposition pass manoeuvres etc.

[White Owl]

I once heard the engines of two T-6s in formation as they passed within about 200 yards of my little Cessna 172, so it's not right to categorically state that you cannot hear other airplanes from inside one plane. But... there's a helluva difference in noise level between a little 172 and a Mustang or FW-190!

 

So from the anecdotal evidence in this thread, I'd suggest the other aircraft sounds don't need eliminated entirely, just turned waaay down so you can't hear them while your own engine is running.

Edited August 20, 2014 by White Owl
wrong plane