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Struggling with my Maverick's accuracy


wraith444
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I've been practicing in the A-10C recently and will set myself up with targets in a clearing near Poti to shoot at. Whenever I do Mavericks I typically get a 50% hit rate, and I can't figure out why. I'll find the first target with the TGP and slave the first Maverick to it, then as soon as I'm within the Maverick's lock range I'll start locking and firing like mad. They track on the targets, but about half of them tend to sail a few feet right over them.

 

I asked the same on reddit.com/r/hoggit, and they recommended I try asking here.

 

Here's a track file of it happening: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5steFmPM-eyMkZLMGhvQVpIQ1E/edit?usp=sharing

 

Here's an .acmi file for Tacview of a different flight, with the same problem: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5steFmPM-eyejM5d29XRkM3bG8/edit?usp=sharing

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When you lock the Mav (TMS-UP short whilst MAV is SOI), do the cross hairs on the Mav page collapse onto the target? If the cross hairs don't collapse onto a single point then the Mav doesn't have a good lock.

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Also count with Maverick type. Among the most common Mavs - AGM-65D are IR tracking and AGM-65H are only optical. AGMs with optical seeker are generally pretty inaccurate when fired at moving target.

 

Do you use live targets, or static objects? When you fire at group of normal live targets, they always start to move at the moment you hit the first one. AGM-65H often miss the second target in a row. And these Mavs are also quite difficult to lock at longer range.

 

Or you must just wait for the solid lock as mentioned above.

 

I haven't see the track, so I just wonder.

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When you lock the Mav (TMS-UP short whilst MAV is SOI), do the cross hairs on the Mav page collapse onto the target?

 

Yep, they go down to just a teeny little gap around the center of the target.

 

Do you use live targets, or static objects? When you fire at group of normal live targets, they always start to move at the moment you hit the first one. AGM-65H often miss the second target in a row. And these Mavs are also quite difficult to lock at longer range.

 

In the test cases I've done I generally use the AGM-65D. My targets are a mass gaggle of 20-25 APCs (BMP-1, if memory serves). I set up a single one then just copy-paste it into a cluster, so each is in its own group and stationary. Ultimately during these tests the targets are all holding still for me unless I get a near miss, then the one that took splash damage will mill around a bit.

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Yep, they go down to just a teeny little gap around the center of the target.

 

You have to press TMS-forward short until the small little gap closes. It needs a few times. As far as I know, the sunlight also have to put into account (sun in front or in the back)...it influences a lot.

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You have to press TMS-forward short until the small little gap closes.

 

Yep, that's what I did. It closed from a normal-ish gap about the size of the target to a nearly-not-there small one around the center of the target. The missiles then tracked on the locked targets, passing just a few feet above them.

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Yep, that's what I did. It closed from a normal-ish gap about the size of the target to a nearly-not-there small one around the center of the target. The missiles then tracked on the locked targets, passing just a few feet above them.

 

 

That behavior sounds like 65H. no way should an IR Lock do that.

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Yep, the cross will collapse when force correlating (boat switch in the middle position), but it should shimmer (and collapse) when locked. You can fire when either of these things are true. I'm not sure though that this is related to the OP's original problem. I often find that quick firing 2 or 3 Mav D's will result in a miss due to the second or third mav losing the lock on the target locked for that missile and finding one of the first locked targets instead, particularly if they are close together.

 

BTW - useful tip maybe for some, force correlating is very useful at night when otherwise Mav H's won't otherwise lock up a target. Found this out when I made the mistake of starting a night mission with Mav H's instead of Mav D's as I'd intended... :P

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From a previous post:

If your MAV camera zooms away from the target quickly and you can't seem to slew where you want, that means your traversal velocity is too high. In other words, as the nose of your aircraft (and the mavs) moves in a line across the line of the target, your camera is unstable. The Mav doesn't have the stabilization abilities of the TGP. Try this, it works extremely well for me, and take note: you only have to manually track on the first Mav, because this one is coming off TGP slave. The next mavs just slew, autolock, rifle:

 

*13-15k ft, 10nm separation from target area

*TGP lock and SPI target, slave all SOI to SPI

*Line up with target

*neg 8-10 on the pitch and path autopilot

*throttles all the way back

*Let the aircraft stabilize

*Switch to Mav camera and TMS FWD Short for track (first target only)

*Fire, acquire, fire, acquire... etc.

 

The mav camera is much more stable. You'll still be more than 5nm away at 10k or higher and you'll have up to 6 mavs in the air.

 

NOW.. you don't have to use the TGP to get your target on. I've actually used the MAV head to seek a target when I didn't have a TGP loaded. Once again just give the MAV head camera a stable platform. Use the above method minus the TGP in step 2, and it will not be necessary to TMS FWD Short for track, since you aren't slaved to TGP. Don't forget to use the FOV feature of the MAV head to zoom in and out on the area to facilitate faster or slower slewing.

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Preamble: For crying out loud, why don't you guys watch the track before starting a wild-goose chase? It does answer almost every single question asked so far. Sheesh, what a waste of time and resources. :doh:

 

 

Good thinking. :thumbup:

 

Playback isn't quite reliable. When I watched it for the first time, you scored 3 kills. Then I watched it again, overriding the views (but leaving control to the playback), and this time you only scored 2 kills. It's quite possible that I didn't see exactly what you originally did.

 

From what I can tell, you targeted the same target several times. That would probably explain a miss. But other than that, I don't see anything obviously wrong.

 

I then watched the track again, instantly took control and engaged some random targets myself in a single pass. I only scored 3 kills out of the 6 Mavs, exactly like it seems to have happened to you.

 

So, I watched and flew again, this time making one pass per Mav, and scored 5 out of 6.

 

I would therefore theorize that Mavs might lose lock if an explosion occurs close to the target, but I don't know whether such a thing is modeled and whether it is actually the reason for the many misses.

 

In short, as far as I can tell you didn't do anything wrong, but maybe try to get more time between shots and see if that helps.

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Mavericks in real life aren't 100% kill weapons and we should be happy if the in game weapon replicates this. If anything Mavericks have been too good and much of the complications for the various seeker head types are not modeled (sunset/sunrise for instance).

 

Its important to realize when diagnosing your own shortcomings in managing systems and executing deliveries whether you're simply failing to acknowledge an acceptable failure rate for the weapons themselves.

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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Its important to realize when diagnosing your own shortcomings in managing systems and executing deliveries whether you're simply failing to acknowledge an acceptable failure rate for the weapons themselves.

 

True enough, but a 50% failure rate seems a bit high for IR mavericks at midday in otherwise clear conditions.

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I have to say i didn't watch your track so far, because i can't do that right now. But I want to say that your problem really makes me wonder, because for me it's hard to believe that you only have a 50% hit rate with the Mavs. I use them very often since they are my favorite weapon for the A-10C, because of their great abbilities and precision. That means I have a ~90% hit rate when using them and that applies for all circumstances, which includes:

- shooting off boresight, near the gimbal limits

- firing multiple Mavs in one pass (usally up to three, sometimes even up to six missles)

- firing in all kind of environmental conditions (day/night, cloudy/sunny)

 

In all these cases I can't make out any difference in accuracy. Almost every missle I fire will hit it's target (90%). The only thing that changes is the locking process. That is indeed more difficult in different conditions (weather, lightnig). But once i manage to get a lock it will hit. And just to make this clear: I'm playing on max. realism settings.

 

The only explanation to your problem which i can comprehend is that you maybe fire multiple Mavs on the same target, which can lead the other mavericks to miss it after the first one destroyed it.

 

 

Edit: Do you have this problem in all missions? If it just happens in your test mission maybe something is wrong with the mission (e.g. insane wind strength).


Edited by QuiGon

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True enough, but a 50% failure rate seems a bit high for IR mavericks at midday in otherwise clear conditions.

 

Sometimes its the game too, or whatever glitchiness replicates the real life issues that might happen.

 

For one IR mavs are IR, meaning light creates heat which creates problems potentially. I don't think this is modeled of course. Instead what you get is the seeker just not honing in or the missile guidance just hitting something wrong or whatever. I've seen instances where a missile will just not lock up no matter what, usually cause something in the map is buggering with it. Other times a single target will not die regardless of the lock, the attack run, multiple attempts. Thats probably again a map issue, even with the lock somehow the missile isn't giving us a kill.

 

If OP's problem is anything and I mean anything other than firing with a soft lock then its probably something glitchy in the game which does a fair enough job of giving us issues that could be considered an approximation of real life unreliability on at least a statistical level of comparison.

 

What exactly can you do to screw up a fire and forget terminal guided weapon? Only other thing I can think of is max range plus vehicle's scattering after the first shot leads to a perfect situation for misses.

 

Maybe if I get any desire to try and speculate wildly beyond this point I might actually watch his track and actually have something empirical to compare my thoughts to. Until then, read the signature.

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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I've had the chance to send a volley of mavericks to some unsuspecting targets some time ago. I've lost the TacView file, but the youtube is here:

 

Looking back atleast 5 out of 6 hit.

 

EDIT: here it is. The action is 15 minutes in: http://sacha.ligthert.net/DCS/Tacview-20131009-213426.txt.acmi


Edited by ligthert

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Did you get my message?

 

Hi Nuts, I did get your message. I just replied back before coming here. Sorry, I haven't had time to come on here before now today.

 

As an aside to anyone interested, I tried another volley against some targets on the /r/hoggit Tuesday night noob server last night and got 4 out of 4 hits. My engagement method was pretty much the same, although the targets were spaced out a bit more so that slowed me down a touch. Also the angle between me and them was a fair bit steeper, so I suspect that's part of it also.

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Is this Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys?

 

bubblescurly-788149.jpg

 

Sometimes its the game too, or whatever glitchiness replicates the real life issues that might happen.

 

For one IR mavs are IR, meaning light creates heat which creates problems potentially. I don't think this is modeled of course. Instead what you get is the seeker just not honing in or the missile guidance just hitting something wrong or whatever. I've seen instances where a missile will just not lock up no matter what, usually cause something in the map is buggering with it. Other times a single target will not die regardless of the lock, the attack run, multiple attempts. Thats probably again a map issue, even with the lock somehow the missile isn't giving us a kill.

 

If OP's problem is anything and I mean anything other than firing with a soft lock then its probably something glitchy in the game which does a fair enough job of giving us issues that could be considered an approximation of real life unreliability on at least a statistical level of comparison.

 

What exactly can you do to screw up a fire and forget terminal guided weapon? Only other thing I can think of is max range plus vehicle's scattering after the first shot leads to a perfect situation for misses.

 

Maybe if I get any desire to try and speculate wildly beyond this point I might actually watch his track and actually have something empirical to compare my thoughts to. Until then, read the signature.

 

Decent


Edited by StrongHarm
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