Is the F-86 useless in DCS World?

[Lordbaldur]

Not at all. So I decided to do an experiment. A dogfight between the F-86 and the Mig-21. The results were unexpected.

 

 

[c84]

i guess this is against AI. Against little bit skilled Mig-21 pilot you have little chances. As far as MiG has decisive advantage in speed and vertical. So cat and mouse game and you(f-86) are the mouse.

On the other hand, if remember correctly, during indo-pak wars, f-86 has some success against 21.

[Exorcet]

The F-86 should be easy prey out in the open. I've been tinkering with MiG-21 vs F-86 in the mission editor. If you try to dogfight the F-86 in the MiG, you're taking a big risk, but zooming through them and launching pairs of missiles makes you near invulnerable. The AI in particular will try to climb after you even if they're barely flying over 200 knots.

[Lordbaldur]

i guess this is against AI. Against little bit skilled Mig-21 pilot you have little chances. As far as MiG has decisive advantage in speed and vertical. So cat and mouse game and you(f-86) are the mouse.

On the other hand, if remember correctly, during indo-pak wars, f-86 has some success against 21.

Well clearly it is an AI because if that were me, I would use the 21's radar advantage. The F-86 has no flares and no RWR. However, it does have maneuverability. Against an enemy player, he would still have a tough dogfight if it boiled down to that. And I think there was one instance where the F-86 won against a Mig-21.

[Beagle One]

Yes it's useless in a modern scenario as well as P-51 and Fw-190. And thats why no modern airforce is flying MiG-21 MiG-15, Sabres or Hawks in a Combat role. So why would someone want to do so in a Digital Combat Simulation. You could as well just fly a Boing 777.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Beagle One

[Exorcet]

Yes it's useless in a modern scenario as well as P-51 and Fw-190. And thats why no modern airforce is flying MiG-21 MiG-15, Sabres or Hawks in a Combat role. So why would someone want to do so in a Digital Combat Simulation. You could as well just fly a Boing 777.

DCS isn't limited to modern day. The F-86 is outclassed by some other fighters, but far from useless. F-86 vs MiG-21 also happened historically.

[Scarge]

/\ This, if all they made was current aircraft I probably wouldn't play this simulation. If you don't like a module nobody is forcing you to buy/play it.

[313_Nevo]

Hmmm, F86 vs MiG21? Very interesting!!! I like the history of these not so well known air conflicts. And I found the story:

 

Air Defence in Northern Sector - 1971 War by KAISER TUFAIL

 

...Recovering to level flight again, Maqsood was in a bit of a quandary whether to fire his six 0.5” Browning guns or the Sidewinder missiles. For the latter he had to wait some seconds, till the MiGs had opened up to an optimum range of several thousand feet. Suddenly, the trailing MiG turned hard to the left, apparently having noticed the Sabre behind. Maqsood did not let go of the opportunity; he placed his gunsight over the target, and started firing. The bullets seemed to land square behind the canopy and after just four seconds of firing, the aircraft started to trail thick black smoke. Maqsood noticed something fly out of the aircraft before it rolled over and dived into the ground in a big ball of fire. Perhaps it was the ejection seat that had shot out of the burning aircraft, but Maqsood was more concerned about his No 2 who was not visible in the rear quarters...

and most likely the guncam shots

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtHs-WkXhynN7rBR-IMO9Y62j4IVTTTCtMRdbiHRUhOkxptZAEjQ

 

PS: in the poll for new theater I vote for INDO-PAKISTAN of course :thumbup:

Edited November 14, 2014 by 313_Nevo

[RaveyDaveyGravy]

MIG 21 IS still in service. Maybe not with many major powers though. India still have them and so does Croatia which is a NATO member. Furthermore Syria has been using it in the ongoing civil war and there are plenty of youtube videos of them attacking insurgents. It's probably more likely to see action with smaller countries in local conflicts.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_operators

 

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Edited April 13, 2020 by RaveyDaveyGravy

[RaveyDaveyGravy]

Me too. It flies nicely but keeps catching fire when landing..........even with a decent ish touchdown it bursts into flames on the rollout

 

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Goggles]

There was a big MiG-21 upgrade program some 10-20 years ago, one programme by Israel Aircraft Industries. Although the airframe dates back to the '60's, it still has formidable Mach 2.2 performace.

 

 

 

"With their (India) upgraded Phazotron Kopyo radar—which is capable of simultaneously tracking eight targets—the Indian MiG-21s are able to attack targets beyond visual range with Russian-made Vympel R-77 radar-guided missiles."

[Kev2go]

Hmmm, F86 vs MiG21? Very interesting!!! I like the history of these not so well known air conflicts. And I found the story:

 

Air Defence in Northern Sector - 1971 War by KAISER TUFAIL

 

 

and most likely the guncam shots

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtHs-WkXhynN7rBR-IMO9Y62j4IVTTTCtMRdbiHRUhOkxptZAEjQ

 

PS: in the poll for new theater I vote for INDO-PAKISTAN of course :thumbup:

 

also to remember was against a Mig21F13 not a MIg21Bis.

[some1]

F-86 can sustain almost 5g at 300 knots and 6g at 400 knots. That's better than any 2nd/3rd generation supersonic aircraft in DCS like F-5, MiG-21, MiG-19, Viggen etc.

If the pilot of such jet is stupid enough to get into a turn fight with you and won't use his speed advantage, he'll loose. And everyone can agree that DCS AI is stupid.

[wizav]

In real world MIG 21 wasn't used for Dogfights. HE was interceptor to counter bombers and to finish them with Gun if needed.

 

Mig 21 was descent against Phantoms, but again F4 Phantom (early versions) were not that great either.

[Jonne]

In real world MIG 21 wasn't used for Dogfights.

 

That is so far away from true, I barely can find words for it.

[probad]

mig-21s were too few and valuable for the vpaf to commit to dogfights, they exclusively used hit and run attacks.

[theGozr]

I love old jets

[Cunctator]

Syria will be the proper map for our MiG-21.

[MegOhm_SD]

If you put yourself in the period the F86 can be a good time.

Have had some good dogfights. There is also fun ATG.

Also enjoyed the “Relic Campaign”

[grafspee]

Why not put F-86 against Mig-15 ?

[rinkerbuck]

Obviously F86 vs Mig-15 is the most obvious matchup, but I think F86 with missiles vs a Mig19 with its (terrible) missiles is a pretty decent matchup also.

[Kang]

I agree and found that fighting the Sabre against the MiG-19 is actually more fun. Could be because at least in my personal experience the AI MiG-15s are the pinnacle of cheating.

[Squiffy]

Yeah the floaty MiG-15 SFM with lift ce greater than 1 at mach v=0 is a bit cheaty. If you want, go into your mig lua, edit the gforce limit down to between 4 and 6 g to reproduce a more realistic non g suit performance of the pilot. Practice with this. Mig fanboys will scream and cry and say that all Mig pilots fly like Honchos with Arnold like g technique after "getting to the choppa" every day, but that is pure BS. A historical, definitive advantage that resulted in UN air superiority and the reality of 2 Koreas to this day is the Sabres superior roll rate, muzzle velocity of the 50s, radar gun site, and yes g suit. Oh and an all flying tail. Take them transonic and watch what should happen. Fat wings climb real nice but stink transonic.

 

Also, don't pull too much lead when following through the vertical. Give them space, place them above your canopy rail and stay aware of the horizon line. Hammerhead turn/roll out of the loop and get your nose down before his, and then close more in the dive. Use speed brakes and be ready for him to try and make you overshoot. Ai is not very smart but this will help you fight them in the vertical and save your energy in the weaker climb n thrust Sabre.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Squiffy

[Squiffy]

Got a supersonic dive kill yesterday. Long struggle at high skill level, but finally lead him into a dive on my tail, popped his speed brake too late. Mad pull out at the end. I made it, he didn't. But my stick work sucks. Worn out cougar doesn't help. And man after wasting all that time flying slow and stupid it was nice to see some reality.

[Contact409]

Not at all. I once score a pvp gunfight with a F-5. but next he is taking the high speed then i`m toasted. but hey, I score a next gen aircraft right ? :megalol::megalol:

 

I think dogfight in F-86 with friends in MIG15 is ultra fun.