Maverick Aiming

[Phantom_Mark]

Hi all,

 

I am struggling a little with the maverick aiming here.

 

I have done the training missions and have no problem with them.

 

When I enter my live fire weapons test mission I start having all sorts of problems however.

 

My main problem is identifying targets at long range with the sensors.

 

In white hot/black hot mode all I see is a blob, and that blob is only selectable once I am virtually on top of the damned target, even when narrow FOV mode is selected, I might as well just line up the pipper visually out the damned HUD ???

 

Take the AGM64H (or D model) and I just have problems getting the damned thing to stick on anything, result in much the same problems as above.

 

I am using the TWS Down short command on my Hotas to ground stabilise the aiming pipper but with the slightest amount of roll or pitch while trying to slew onto target more accurately the pipper does a random dance around the blob I am trying to aim at.

 

I have naturally reduced slew rate to 1.0 down from the standard 5.0

 

So........with all the above in mind, is there a way to use the TGP AG mode to lock up the target and then slave that to the seeker head on one of the mavericks maybe ?? that system by comparison is a joy to use with very little dancing around the target, and long range use is much more pleasurable ?

[Yurgon]

So........with all the above in mind, is there a way to use the TGP AG mode to lock up the target and then slave that to the seeker head on one of the mavericks maybe ??

 

Yup, and that is actually the preferred method. :)

 

Follow these steps:

- Open TGP on the MFCD

- Set TGP to A-G mode

- Set TGP as SOI with Coolie Hat Right Long or Left Long according to MFCD

- Set TGP as SPI generator with TMS Forward Long

- By now, wherever you aim the TGP, that is your SPI (unless you designate another SPI generator, obviously)

- Switch MFCD to Mav

- Set Mav as SOI with Coolie Hat Right Long or Left Long according to MFCD

- Slave all to SPI with China Hat Forward Long

 

That's it, the Mav should now look where the TGP was looking. :thumbup:

 

Note, I haven't flown A-10C in a while, I'll gladly correct the above if I've gotten anything wrong.

 

Note #2, the above is one way of doing it. E.g., there are other ways to set the SOI , so if you find that another way works better for you, that's of course totally okay. :)

[ricktoberfest]

Maverick Aiming

 

Dot forget to push the lock button after it's pointed at the target to enable the Mav to lock on

[Phantom_Mark]

Awesome, it seemed to me there must surely be a way, all that tech begging to be used in the ANQ28 and all that, will try that out, thanks very much.

 

Will report back my findings :)

 

You made my evening , I get lost in the process of setting SOI, your explanation makes much more sense than any guide I heard before thanks.

[shagrat]

To ease the pain with IR display (TGP etc.) the MFCDs have functional(!) brightness and contrast rockers in addition to the TGP's 'gain' and 'level' setting... makes a huge difference if you adjust contrast a bit in IR modes. :D

[will-]

In white hot/black hot mode all I see is a blob, and that blob is only selectable once I am virtually on top of the damned target, even when narrow FOV mode is selected, I might as well just line up the pipper visually out the damned HUD ???

 

After killing all AAA threats, and having left over mavs. i will do exactly that. tms up short. Good to go.

 

Now using TGP > CNTRL(top left OSB) > LATCH ON. Just get in the habbit of doing it. Starting to see a few post on the forums about this. This keeps the laser on until you turn it off.

 

Next you will want to use the TGP to mark targets around 15m, not to far out or Mark Points(MP) will be off placement. So @30-20m just plan your attack. . . With the TGP create MP's once completed switch your NAV to MARK, now with DMS UP you can change MP's, Make left MFD TGP, right MFD MAV... you will launch mav's very fast^^

[Phantom_Mark]

Dot forget to push the lock button after it's pointed at the target to enable the Mav to lock on

 

Wonderful thanks very much, having tried this and got it working perfectly I also better understand the whole sensor slaving thing now as well, thanks again, perfect :)

 

Those SAM's + ZSU's can each some AGM now :P

[Phantom_Mark]

After killing all AAA threats, and having left over mavs. i will do exactly that. tms up short. Good to go.

 

Now using TGP > CNTRL(top left OSB) > LATCH ON. Just get in the habbit of doing it. Starting to see a few post on the forums about this. This keeps the laser on until you turn it off.

 

Next you will want to use the TGP to mark targets around 15m, not to far out or Mark Points(MP) will be off placement. So @30-20m just plan your attack. . . With the TGP create MP's once completed switch your NAV to MARK, now with DMS UP you can change MP's, Make left MFD TGP, right MFD MAV... you will launch mav's very fast^^

 

This just keeps getting better and better, that sadly will now have to be for tomorrow, awesome stuff :pilotfly:

[Phantom_Mark]

Out of interest, is the Maverick targeting system really that bad ??? without the ANQ the whole system seems a whole waste of space unless your designating from the HUD mode ? That works fine slewing around nice enough, by that time your so close your probably going to die tho :P:joystick:

[Andryl]

Dot forget to push the lock button after it's pointed at the target to enable the Mav to lock on

 

Sorry, what do you mean with "lock button"? the force correlation one (boat switch center)?

Because when I use the above cited procedure, the Mav is stabilized to the target, but I cannot launch it because it says it hasn't a valid lock: I'm forced to slew it a bit sideways and move again it on the target.

 

Thanks in advance

[Corvus]

By lock button I think he means TMS Up short. That should force MAV to lock on target.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Lock target with tgp as soi then press china hat forward long. Switch to maverick as soi, it should give one of 2 things,

1- seeker limit exceeded if target > 30 degrees to nose ( to port , aft or starboard). Maneuver to get seeker back on spi.

2- target in view from slaved maverick derived from tgp. Be under 7 nm slant, push fov (china hat forward short), keep mashing tms up short until maverick screen begins to wiggle indicating a lock. Fire.

 

Some missiles can use force correlate to engage from further, boat switch up short before tms up short.

[GeorgeLKMT]

....china hat forward long......(china hat forward short)....

 

Sorry for off topic but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask here.

 

I bought A-10C but I didn't have time to fly it yet and I saw this mentioned many times already so I'm wondering. Is this long/short button pressing only a feature on TM Warthog or can you set it up like this on any hardware? Thanks.

[Andryl]

Ok: I missed the TMS Up short. I will give it a try this evening.

 

Thanks a lot!

[Andryl]

Sorry for off topic but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask here.

 

I bought A-10C but I didn't have time to fly it yet and I saw this mentioned many times already so I'm wondering. Is this long/short button pressing only a feature on TM Warthog or can you set it up like this on any hardware? Thanks.

 

Nope: you can use it with different HOTAS. I use it with the Saitek x-52 pro, so I guess it's not a programmable separate function: the simulator recognises a continuous input.

[ricktoberfest]

Ok: I missed the TMS Up short. I will give it a try this evening.

 

Thanks a lot!

 

 

That's what I meant. I just couldn't remember which button it was called. It's the lock button on my joystick.

[GeorgeLKMT]

Nope: you can use it with different HOTAS. I use it with the Saitek x-52 pro, so I guess it's not a programmable separate function: the simulator recognises a continuous input.

 

Oh got it, I thought it has to be mapped separately. So the sim knows if you're pressing or holding, OK! Thanks :)

[Pinefang]

In the DCS A-10C Manual go to page 86-93 and there is a nice printable explanation of all of the HOTAS buttons and what should happen with the long and short actions. The manual uses the real stick and and throttle controllers but you can bind the buttons to any HOTAS that you own. I use the CH Products HOTAS and all work great.

[tommytank]

Nope: you can use it with different HOTAS. I use it with the Saitek x-52 pro, so I guess it's not a programmable separate function: the simulator recognises a continuous input.

DCS recognised my X-52's long/short presses correctly - there just aren't enough switches etc to configure 1:1 with the A10c HOTAS in DCS.

[shagrat]

In the controller setup it will use the names of the original "buttons" under the HOTAS category like present on the stick. If you now map any button on a X52, gamepad or whatever to "TMS up" you can press that button or hold it to provide a short or long command.

It takes a bit of .getting used to the concept, but it is brilliant. The controls simply adapt to different sensors or functions as needed, so you can keep your eyes on more important things than looking for buttons...

[Yurgon]

I bought A-10C but I didn't have time to fly it yet and I saw this mentioned many times already so I'm wondering. Is this long/short button pressing only a feature on TM Warthog or can you set it up like this on any hardware? Thanks.

 

As a more general answer:

 

In the F-16, the HOTAS concept used a modifier button. There's one modifier on the stick, and while it is pressed in, any other HOTAS button can have a function that is different from the default.

(There's also another three-way modifier on the F-16 throttle, but let's not get into too much detail).

 

In the A-10C, the concept was changed so that long and short button presses can have a different meaning. The A-10C HOTAS concept doesn't feature a modifier.

 

Now the thing is, the TM Warthog doesn't know anything about short or long presses - the TM Warthog simply sends out DirectX commands like "Button DX2" for as long as the button is pressed. It's the job of DCS to take this input and decide whether it's a short or a long press. So, in DCS A-10C, short and long presses differ while there is no distinction between short and long presses in FC3 (AFAIK).

 

It's also important to note that in this regard, DCS doesn't care whether the button was pressed on the TM Warthog or an X52 or a no-name joystick. It's simply a DirectX button press event and the source doesn't matter.

 

Just to be on the safe side I'd like to mention that Thrustmaster's TARGET software that comes with the Warthog can be programmed to detect short and long presses on its own. A TARGET profile could be used to send different inputs to, e.g., DCS FC3 depending on short or long presses. However, TARGET is optional. When TARGET is not running, the Warthog is 100% DirectX device.

 

Edit:

 

It takes a bit of .getting used to the concept, but it is brilliant.

 

Agreed. :thumbup:

[Phantom_Mark]

I don't use the Target software at all for my Hog, and never had a problem with short and long presses, I am now using my Hog throttle but a MSFF2 base with a CH Fighterstick Handle grafted on the top, which also has no issues with short - long press detection ?

[Yurgon]

I don't use the Target software at all for my Hog, and never had a problem with short and long presses, [...]

 

Uh, yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. This works out-of-the-box in DCS A-10C and has nothing to do with TARGET (or the Warthog, for that matter). :smartass:

 

It's a feature from the A-10C that is accurately modeled in DCS, regardless of input device.

[Phantom_Mark]

Gonna follow up with another question on this, because this is powerful stuff once you get your head around it, I guess it really is the heart of making this plane a really dangerous piece of kit as well :)

 

So now I have got a good working understanding of how to target with the TGP in all its glory, then slave the maverick to that SPI ? , lock it and kit it.

 

I just had a quick mess around marking but getting myself in a knot with that now :D

 

I changed the CDU controls to MRK from the normal WPT setting, so now when I toggle the Mark points switch as expected, but it feels really clumsy and like I am taking the long way around to eventually getting the MAV seeker onto that new marker point, there seems no way to switch Mark point while in nothing less than HUD SOI which means then going back to the MAV and making that SOI then China FWD Long to slave to the newly selected MRK point ?

 

Sorry if I am confusing, it is confusing myself and I am sure there is going be a much more simple way, I didn't try changing points with the CDU panel steerpoint switch selector, maybe that is it ? only been switching from the UFC Steerpoint switch on the left side ? :book::doh: , from HUD Soi I have also been switching with DMS up/down ......

[shagrat]

Slave sensors to SPI with China Forward long should work with any SOI just make sure you make the current/next markpoint SPI, first...