Become a Third-Party Developer?

[PallyWoods]

I am starting to look into making my own aircraft for DCS. I have most of the technological knowledge with the exception of advanced 3d modelling and I'm not all that familiar with Lua. However there is some projects which I have not seen or heard of being made before that I would love to start out with and see in DCS.

 

Before I get started though, I was wondering if there is anyone I can speak with or someone that could tell me about requirements to become a third-party dev. I figured it would require some licensing and contracts with ED and the aircraft's company itself. How difficult is it to obtain these, also what are the profit percentages of the sales (business is business stuff).

 

I might be biting off more than I can chew here... but I would rather make a high quality project than just basic mods. Any information on what all I will need or the licensing and sales would very appreciated. Thanks.

[Silver_Dragon]

Check that post to Lua help:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116901

 

Contact with Wags, he can help you to the 3rd Party requeriments: http://forums.eagle.ru/member.php?u=3338

[Akki]

I am starting to look into making my own aircraft for DCS. I have most of the technological knowledge with the exception of advanced 3d modelling and I'm not all that familiar with Lua. However there is some projects which I have not seen or heard of being made before that I would love to start out with and see in DCS.

 

Before I get started though, I was wondering if there is anyone I can speak with or someone that could tell me about requirements to become a third-party dev. I figured it would require some licensing and contracts with ED and the aircraft's company itself. How difficult is it to obtain these, also what are the profit percentages of the sales (business is business stuff).

 

I might be biting off more than I can chew here... but I would rather make a high quality project than just basic mods. Any information on what all I will need or the licensing and sales would very appreciated. Thanks.

 

Happy new year 2015 and welcome to the forums!

We hope you can do business with ED and convert your knowledge in an aircraft that all of us could fly in the future.

Good luck and welcome!!

[joey45]

There's a thread somewhere that says what is needed... can't find it. On phone having a pub lunch.

Edited January 2, 2015 by joey45
spelling and gramma.

[Sabre-TLA]

Check out this thread. You will need to sign a 3rd Party Developers Agreement with Matt Wagner (Wags).

[BR55Sevas]

...I'm not all that familiar with Lua...

 

Then better forget about modmaking. Or start learn, look for info on forum about it.

Modmaking are not just "I want", here a lot, a LOT of skill and knowledge requires.

[RagnarDa]

How about joining an existing group? What are your qualifications? Especially if you are somewhat comfortable programming in C++ or similar and if you have some engineering background there are a lot of groups that are very interested in talking with you.

[PLP]

How about joining an existing group? What are your qualifications? Especially if you are somewhat comfortable programming in C++ or similar and if you have some engineering background there are a lot of groups that are very interested in talking with you.

 

This. I do not think it is realistic for a one-man team to make a full-blown DCS module in a reasonable amount of time. But I would be of course very happy were you to prove me wrong.

[PallyWoods]

There's a thread somewhere that says what is needed... can't find it. On phone having a pub lunch.

 

This is what I was looking for before posting. Couldn't find it within a reasonable amount of time so I made this account and this thread. Looks like Sabre-TLA's link is more or less the same thing.

 

Then better forget about modmaking. Or start learn, look for info on forum about it.

Modmaking are not just "I want", here a lot, a LOT of skill and knowledge requires.

 

I am have worked with C# extensively through my high school days and learned a good amount of C++ during college, as well as Java and Python as other notables. I was told by a friend of mine that Lua is not very different however, the "grammar structure" (his words, not mine) is different from C. Only things that I know I will run into some difficulty with are the flight model in general and mapping the analog controllers. I have mapped an entire keyboard before for a small indie game I made as well as the mouse but never worked with Lua before and never mapped a controller aside from the Xbox 360 pad in a visual basic program once. I think that came pre-programmed though and I barely remember even doing it.

 

As for joining an existing group, since I have no DCS module experience yet, I do not feel comfortable with this idea. I think I would bog down some of the other creators in the first few months just getting up to speed so perhaps later on after I get some experience. I would need to collaborate with someone however as I am not that great at 3D editing. To get around this I was looking at purchasing some 3d models others have already made and then using that as a strong starting template to create the cockpits to DCS simulation fidelity.

 

PLP, I doubt I could spit out more than one excellent module every two years, but I will try my best to surprise you mate.

[Flagrum]

I am have worked with C# extensively through my high school days and learned a good amount of C++ during college, as well as Java and Python as other notables. I was told by a friend of mine that Lua is not very different however, the "grammar structure" (his words, not mine) is different from C. Only things that I know I will run into some difficulty with are the flight model in general and mapping the analog controllers. I have mapped an entire keyboard before for a small indie game I made as well as the mouse but never worked with Lua before and never mapped a controller aside from the Xbox 360 pad in a visual basic program once. I think that came pre-programmed though and I barely remember even doing it.

 

As for joining an existing group, since I have no DCS module experience yet, I do not feel comfortable with this idea. I think I would bog down some of the other creators in the first few months just getting up to speed so perhaps later on after I get some experience. I would need to collaborate with someone however as I am not that great at 3D editing. To get around this I was looking at purchasing some 3d models others have already made and then using that as a strong starting template to create the cockpits to DCS simulation fidelity.

Well, this is the crux here ...

 

Programming skills are the basic prerequisite if you develop a module for DCS. Good or excellent C++ or C# and you probably will get along if you start out with just basic LUA skills.

 

But this is when the real challenges just start. The understanding of how DCS internally works. The understanding of the physics of an aircraft and how to transform this into the mathematics - in a way that DCS can use it.

 

There lies the learning curve...

 

I really don't want to discourage you (out of selfish reasons: I WANT NEW AIRCRAFT! ;o) ... but you should probably approach some of the other 3rd party devs and chat with them. They might not be able to answer all questions in detail (due to NDA), but they might probably help you to get a better understanding of the challenges involved. As far as I could see, these guys are all really nice and helpfull, if you approach them politely. :o) If I were you, I would try to get a hold of the guys of VEAO, Leatherneck or Polychop.

 

edit:

Some of them have open vacancies for jobs like developing the cockpit avionics and the like (VEAO, iirc). I am not familar with their terms and conditions, but perhaps this could be a way to get deeper involved in all this stuff without the need to deal with a whole new module from scratch?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Flagrum

[Pman]

Well, this is the crux here ...

 

Programming skills are the basic prerequisite if you develop a module for DCS. Good or excellent C++ or C# and you probably will get along if you start out with just basic LUA skills.

 

But this is when the real challenges just start. The understanding of how DCS internally works. The understanding of the physics of an aircraft and how to transform this into the mathematics - in a way that DCS can use it.

 

There lies the learning curve...

 

I really don't want to discourage you (out of selfish reasons: I WANT NEW AIRCRAFT! ;o) ... but you should probably approach some of the other 3rd party devs and chat with them. They might not be able to answer all questions in detail (due to NDA), but they might probably help you to get a better understanding of the challenges involved. As far as I could see, these guys are all really nice and helpfull, if you approach them politely. :o) If I were you, I would try to get a hold of the guys of VEAO, Leatherneck or Polychop.

 

edit:

Some of them have open vacancies for jobs like developing the cockpit avionics and the like (VEAO, iirc). I am not familar with their terms and conditions, but perhaps this could be a way to get deeper involved in all this stuff without the need to deal with a whole new module from scratch?

 

Flagrum is right in what he says, developing for DCS is a very time consuming job and takes alot of time, effort and money to do properly.

 

We do have a couple of vacancies and are genuinely open to taking on people with core skills who want to get more involved in developing within DCS, be that adding them to one of our existing teams or building a new one around a premise.

 

In my personal opinion I think that trying to do an entire module by yourself is a very tall ask and chances are that you would burn out long before it was complete. Just my opinion from experience working with this kind of thing.

 

Not too mention the legalities of getting contracts in place with aircraft manufacturers to be able to sell an ASM level aircraft.

 

If the OP wants to discuss my experiences further he is welcome to PM me and we can chat further.

 

Pman

[NineLine]

Before you even contact Wags, you need to be able to show:

 

1- Screen shots and video of external 3D model and 6 DOF cockpit.

2- Porting of test object with cockpit into DCS.

3- Resume of team members that shows experience in C++ and LUA coding. This needs to be in regards to both cockpit systems and flight dynamics.

4- Design document of the aircraft that includes detailed explanation of implementation of all cockpit systems.

 

That's a starter... as ED has refined their 3rd Party requirements some after a few miss steps, there are more requirements before you can be considered for a licence.

[7rooper]

I have 3D modelling skills and some modding experience but I would like to team up with people who want to make a DCS F-16 as our first product. A Tornado could be the second project by the time ED have solved the multicrew problem

Edited January 3, 2015 by 7rooper

[vicx]

I'm interested in developing (over time) something like a mission "module". This would be a mission that has as a component a lot of customised 3D objects and interfaces. I see this as less technically and legally demanding than trying to make a DCS level aircraft. I also see a real need for this type of content in DCS.

[PLP]

Maybe I'm completely wrong and slightly off-topic here, but what might be more feasible for a one-man or smaller team than a full-blown asm/efm module is a map. I mean first the size is variable, the amount of 3d modelling involved seems much more doable (still a lot of work though), and one could even imagine a completely fictitious theater which could still be fun. I really hope the map sdk becomes open, and that it will be reasonably easy for a non-official 3rd party to make a map available for integration into DCS. This could add a lot of entertainment value to the sim, again imho.

 

Of course this is much less glamorous than developing an F16.

[NineLine]

Maybe I'm completely wrong and slightly off-topic here, but what might be more feasible for a one-man or smaller team than a full-blown asm/efm module is a map. I mean first the size is variable, the amount of 3d modelling involved seems much more doable (still a lot of work though), and one could even imagine a completely fictitious theater which could still be fun. I really hope the map sdk becomes open, and that it will be reasonably easy for a non-official 3rd party to make a map available for integration into DCS. This could add a lot of entertainment value to the sim, again imho.

 

Of course this is much less glamorous than developing an F16.

 

There is a lot more going on under the hood with maps than you might think... no probably not as complex as an F/A-18... but still their own challenges

[PLP]

There is a lot more going on under the hood with maps than you might think... no probably not as complex as an F/A-18... but still their own challenges

 

I'm sure there is, just in my opinion the process of map-making is much more automation-friendly, and imho an imperfect map (not very accurate, little 3d objects, towns are all the same, simplistic airbases with no paths for AI) is much more fun and has much more entertainment value than an imperfect module.

 

I remember having a huge blast in fsx by building improbable airports in the middle of alpine valleys, and the idea of being able to do similar things in DCS somehow has me excited.

[NineLine]

I'm sure there is, just in my opinion the process of map-making is much more automation-friendly, and imho an imperfect map (not very accurate, little 3d objects, towns are all the same, simplistic airbases with no paths for AI) is much more fun and has much more entertainment value than an imperfect module.

 

I remember having a huge blast in fsx by building improbable airports in the middle of alpine valleys, and the idea of being able to do similar things in DCS somehow has me excited.

 

I dunno... I guess I expect more out of a DCS map, especially what I have seen from the new ones, not sure I would enjoy a half assed one, regardless, you probably wont get your hands on the tools for such a map anyways.

[PallyWoods]

In the research for this development, I saw that only official 3rd-party devs and ED themselves have access to the Edge engine. Until released publicly there may not even be a way to create a map since there is nothing in the menus to select a map to create a mission on. But I wouldn't mind working on a mission system mod first though. I was thinking of something like ALiVE in ArmA 3 or MSO in ArmA 2. Possibly integrate a 3d editor like Zeus function now has. I just may look into this, even though it is not as glamorous as my first or second planned projects. And no, I did not plan on creating a F-16 since that was mentioned earlier. I don't want to reveal what I have planned though until I can successfully implement a model into the engine.