Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[Vivoune]

You've got to be kidding. The last thing most forum users want to understand is facts, especially when it doesn't suit their agenda. Most of the forums are dominated by the "Sky is Falling" types, who think Oculus having a few exclusives is going to kill Oculus, and VR in general.

 

Having a couple of exclusive titles doesn't even begin to describe the root of the problem. Much more is happening that gets Oculus/Facebook stuck in a public opinion's tantrum spirale.

 

If you can't be bothered to inform yourself a little about the whole picture of what's happening in VR there's not much point into debating it really.

[funkyfranky]

And now for something completely different...

 

Since today I experience the problem that SteamVR launches _automatically_ when I start DCS. Happens in both 1.5 and 2.0. I'm using SteamVR beta.

 

Usually I have it off since it is known to increase stutters and therefore I would prefer it that way. However when I close SteamVR, DCS closes too.

 

Anyone else seeing this and maybe even has a solution?

[AstroEma]

Happened to me last night as well.

 

Not sure why, but it has something to do with the latest beta.

[Chivas]

Having a couple of exclusive titles doesn't even begin to describe the root of the problem. Much more is happening that gets Oculus/Facebook stuck in a public opinion's tantrum spirale.

 

If you can't be bothered to inform yourself a little about the whole picture of what's happening in VR there's not much point into debating it really.

 

Again you don't know what your talking about. Where does it suggest I don't read the forums. Just because someone doesn't join the Lemming cliff jumpers, doesn't mean I don't get a kick out of watching them jump. Most are hypocrites anyway, taking the moral highground, while stealing all software they can get their hands on, then wondering where all the flight sim developers went.

 

I've been following VR closely since the Oculus kickstarter days. Everyone loved Oculus, some hated Steam, until Facebook acquired the firm. Then the Facebook haters lost their minds, suggesting Facebook would dumb down the headset for only social experiences, and any other nonsense they could think of. The exact opposite happened, Facebook monies allow Oculus too acquire some of the brightest people, build custom VR parts, and further fund VR software developers. Personally I could care less about Facebook, don't use it, and probably never will.

 

I also don't hate Vive. I think their system is great, but just have the opinion that the Rift is more refined, especially for flight sims. That has been born out by most users, and flight sim devs who have experience with both headsets. When the Touch controllers come out, they also look to be more refined than the Vive wands. They should be considering the time and monies Oculus has available for R&D etc etc. Unfortunately Fanboyism won't let people look at the big picture, and just ignore facts that don't their argument, and they hitch their wagon to any nonsense in the forums, that suits their position. I usually only post in support of Oculus when a Vive fanboy can't sing the praises of his Vive headset without adding ill informed bullsh*t about the Rift.

 

People continue to suggest that the Rift won't be able to do roomscale VR, which is total nonsense. Two Rift trackers can be placed anywhere the user wants, and will have the exact same exclusion problems as the Vive. This has been proven, and posted by many users in the forums you suggest that I don't read.

 

Valve originally had no intention of developing a consumer version of their VR hardware projects, and had no problem working with Oculus while they were doing R&D on their consumer version. Up till then Valve spent very little monies on VR software until Vive came into the picture, and they decided to build their own hardware unit. Oculus had been investing in VR software for almost two years before that happened, as they knew there was no point in investing in hardware if there was not enough good VR content.

 

Oculus also knew they had to have some control over the quality of the VR software, as bad VR software would kill VR hardware no matter how good the hardware is. Hence Oculus Home, where they could control the quality, and recoup some of the huge investments they've been making in VR hardware/software over the last few years. Oculus stated from the beginning they were going to sell their hardware near cost, and planned to make their profit on the software side. Oculus will have no problem competing with anyone on the hardware side, but yes there will be some exclusives, while Oculus establishes its position in the market to compete with the Steam store. That's the reality, and no amount of hand wringing, or forum whinging will change that.

 

I have no allegiance to AMD or Nvidia, but just buy the one that best suits my needs, the same goes for Vive, and Oculus. There is no question that currently the Rift is better for my needs in flight sims, and if I want to venture into roomscale later, I have little doubt that the Rift controllers will easily compete with the Vive wands. If that changes I will be the first to buy Vive, or some other competitor. I could care less fanboy allegiances.

[Krupi]

Chivas I know you are trying to help and I am sickened by the lies and propaganda that Vive/Rift Fanboys are spreading around as well, however please just remember that this is the vive thread and people see you talking on here and you come off as a fanboy.

 

I am waiting for my CV1 which should be arriving in the next two weeks (hopefully) however I still find myself debating if I made the right choice.

 

Both products are similarly spec'ed in terms of the headset itself the main difference is that the vive allows roomscale movement and at the moment I get the impression that though technically the Rift can as well they are focusing on a more standing/sitting on the spot (Based from what we are seeing in E3).

 

Now personally I know regardless of which headset I use my main use would be in DCS so roomscale doesn't matter to me compared to polish (Weight, design etc..) so the more polished looking device got my money.

 

At the end of the day the fact is that we have two VR developers and others coming can only be good for us (unless exclusives get out of hand) a monopoly is the worst thing that VR could have had in my opinion.

 

In two/three years the next iteration of both HTC & Oculus HMD's will launch and that will be an interesting time, at the moment however for DCS I honestly don't think that there is much difference between the two headsets (That is if you can cut though all the senseless propaganda that both sides insist on creating).

Edited June 15, 2016 by Krupi

[Milopapa]

And now for something completely different...

 

Since today I experience the problem that SteamVR launches _automatically_ when I start DCS. Happens in both 1.5 and 2.0. I'm using SteamVR beta.

 

Usually I have it off since it is known to increase stutters and therefore I would prefer it that way. However when I close SteamVR, DCS closes too.

 

Anyone else seeing this and maybe even has a solution?

 

From the SteamVR changelog:

 

SteamVR Beta Updated (1465936085)

14 Jun

 

The SteamVR beta has been updated with the following changes.

 

General:

SteamVR will now start when an application starts even if that application wasn’t launched by Steam. This behavior can be controlled by an option in the Developer settings.

[Milopapa]

if you can cut though all the senseless propaganda that both sides insist on creating).

 

Hey, let's not put an equals sign between the two communities.

There are certain facts you cannot argue with about Oculus that its fanbase refuses to accept.

 

Regardless, I agree it should stay out of this forum (or at least this thread) and we should focus on DCS on the Vive/Rift (respective topic).

[Vivoune]

Chivas, no offense but your speech really sounds like the sort of person you claim to base your lack of credits on. Regardless, I don't see how any of that addresses anything that we've been discussing.

 

You say I have no idea what I'm talking about and I think you're misinformed. Let's leave it at that and not monopolize this thread in vain attempts to change each other's minds.

 

If you absolutely feel the need to shout how everyone's making a fuss are misguided uneducated fanboys I'd invite you to post an exact copy of your previous comment on a VR forum, subreddit, Oculus Rift's or Vive's and read the responses from people that are willing to spend much more time than I to bring to your attention things that you disregard and see as hysterical fanboyism.

 

In the end if you're perfectly happy with your Rift and the company behind it that's all that should matter to you, there's no need to come enforce your Facebook/Oculus opinion on a HTC/Vive DCS thread.

[Krupi]

Hey, let's not put an equals sign between the two communities.

There are certain facts you cannot argue with about Oculus that its fanbase refuses to accept.

 

Regardless, I agree it should stay out of this forum (or at least this thread) and we should focus on DCS on the Vive/Rift (respective topic).

 

Please tell me of these facts that aren't based on personal bias?

 

There is most definitely a = sign especially when it comes to DCS immersion.

 

Seriously I really really want to know because there is so much nonsense out there I imagine it is pure rubbish and I would love to finally see a grown up discussion on differences.

 

On another note the whole Facebook thing is pure Bs, Vive users do seem to mistake the "company that must not be named" for a mixture of 'the Dark side' and remnants of 'the third reich'. I don't particularly care for Facebook however I am not so foolish as to think that everyone connected with the brand is after my location, bank details and my every thought... I leave that to the NSA ;)

Edited June 15, 2016 by Krupi

[Milopapa]

Please tell me of these facts that aren't based on personal bias?

 

It's way too late so I'll just link you to this:

All direct quotes, you'll need to do the research on what happened later.

 

Even if you don't care about lies, it's a fact that Oculus is building a closed ecosystem (which is really bad for VR adoption) and they're paying devs for timed exclusivity.

 

But again, can we just abandon this?

[Krupi]

It's way too late so I'll just link you to this:

All direct quotes, you'll need to do the research on what happened later.

 

Even if you don't care about lies, it's a fact that Oculus is building a closed ecosystem (which is really bad for VR adoption) and they're paying devs for timed exclusivity.

 

But again, can we just abandon this?

 

Ah I see so yes it is your own personal bias not actual facts about the headset or issues.

 

A lot of that is rubbish and who cares what Palmer lucky said way back when, sometimes plan's change one has to adapt.

 

I was hoping for a mature debate, pity.

 

P.S. I won't post here anymore I am at risk of becoming a hypocrite. Please feel free to make a new thread if you wish to discuss further.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Krupi

[Windypants]

Windypants HTC VIVE Video

 

Hey guys quick video of me in the HTC Vive flying the instant action mission against the FW-190. Spent a good couple of hours playing online with my buddy dog fighting against the 109 and 190. I've flown with the HTC Vive now for nearly 2 months. I have officially joined the club of can't go back to 2D monitor flying. The mirror view honestly does no justice to what the VR experience is like. But I can say this, the situational awareness and positional tracking is going to make me a better dog fighter. Yes it has limitations with resolution, Screen door effect, and Field of View but, virtual reality is the way of the future in my opinion.

 

I know a lot of people are on the fence with VR in general but I don't think you can go wrong with either Vive or Rift. I was sold on Vive because of room scale play. Now I have to fight for VR time with my wife and 10 year old son because they love all the room scale games. The technology is in its infancy and I know it will only get better from here. Look forward to the future of VR and DCS World. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Oh and DCS UH-60 Blackhawk needs to be a thing LOL:pilotfly:

[funkyfranky]

From the SteamVR changelog:

Thanks Milopapa! Must have missed that new setting. But than it should be easy to get rid off. :thumbup:

[npole]

Thanks Milopapa! Must have missed that new setting. But than it should be easy to get rid off. :thumbup:

 

On SteamVR Settings > Developer > untick: Start SteamVR when application starts.

[hansangb]

Man, I didn't realize HTC-Vive became a non-profit charity who will eradicate world hunger. And I didn't realize Oculus joined up with the ISIS bastards.

 

It sure reads that way.

 

It's just a stupid toy. Get a grip everyone. It's just changing how we interact with a freaking game. I for one want both the succeed so we can let the market decide. Consumers always win when there is competition.

 

hsb

[Vivoune]

Hey guys quick video of me in the HTC Vive flying the instant action mission against the FW-190. Spent a good couple of hours playing online with my buddy dog fighting against the 109 and 190. I've flown with the HTC Vive now for nearly 2 months. I have officially joined the club of can't go back to 2D monitor flying. The mirror view honestly does no justice to what the VR experience is like. But I can say this, the situational awareness and positional tracking is going to make me a better dog fighter. Yes it has limitations with resolution, Screen door effect, and Field of View but, virtual reality is the way of the future in my opinion.

 

I know a lot of people are on the fence with VR in general but I don't think you can go wrong with either Vive or Rift. I was sold on Vive because of room scale play. Now I have to fight for VR time with my wife and 10 year old son because they love all the room scale games. The technology is in its infancy and I know it will only get better from here. Look forward to the future of VR and DCS World. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Oh and DCS UH-60 Blackhawk needs to be a thing LOL:pilotfly:

 

Nice hunt. I find VR particularly shine in WW2 aircraft. :thumbup:

 

I can't wait for 4k per eye, we'll be in VR heaven.

[shagrat]

LOL: Know the problem all too well....

Should have gone with the Rift.....:D

This sounds like the most valid argument towards the rift...

Nothing for wifey, mature man stuff like DCS, only.

[TomCatMucDe]

I got my Vive 2 days ago. I had also to bump my rig even if the older one was a very decent one.

I have now an i7 6700K 4Ghz, 32Gb DDR4 Ram, 1000W, ordered an GTX1080 but didn't receive it yet. For the moment I did the test with the older GPU, AMD R9 290x.

My feedback is that Vive, and probably simply VR in DCS is very hungy. I truly cant use it now with the current GPU which is not bad. I have headaches just by looking around without flying. Looking around in the this job simulator is very smooth.

 

Without a very good GPU, consider your choices carefully before jumping into VR and probably be ready to invest in a monster rig to really use it in DCS.

 

Until I receive my GTX 1080, I will use TrackIR, cause now I just cant touch Vive in DCS.

 

I hope this feedback will help.

 

edit: I have the config mostly set on rather high. I will test a down tuned config.

Edited June 17, 2016 by TomCatMucDe

[Vivoune]

Yes I think a gtx 970 or equivalent is the minimum. That's what I have and it's working fine with most things on low.

[CptTangerine]

Hi All

 

I have just bought the Vive and it is excellent. It's not perfect - the screen door effect is far more noticeable than I was expecting it to be but the feeling of immersion is utterly awesome!

 

I haven't even played a mission yet, I'm just enjoying pootling around in the P-51 and enjoying the view.

 

One oddity that I am experiencing is that every now and then, for about a second, the Vive placeholder will pop through into the view.

 

Does anyone know what causes this or what I can do to prevent it? There doesn't seem to be any particular thing that causes it - it does, perhaps happen more when I'm entering a banking turn but this may just be a coincidence.

 

Cheers!

 

CptT

[DracoLlasa]

I got my Vive 2 days ago. I had also to bump my rig even if the older one was a very decent one.

I have now an i7 6700K 4Ghz, 32Gb DDR4 Ram, 1000W, ordered an GTX1080 but didn't receive it yet. For the moment I did the test with the older GPU, AMD R9 290x.

 

Same here, i have been using an R9 290 also and its the same issue, pretty much any other game is acceptable, but DCS is still not fully optimized for VR.. so that along with the lower end (for VR) GPU cause it to not work well.

Im still deciding which GPU to upgrade too, the 1080 looks good but still pricey or hard to find and im not paying for the "founders edition" crap lol

the AMD 480 is remarkably tempting at only $200 its litteraly a fraction of the cost of the 1080, could get three of them for the price of the 1080. but that for another thread.. im still waiting

[npole]

Hi All

 

I have just bought the Vive and it is excellent. It's not perfect - the screen door effect is far more noticeable than I was expecting it to be but the feeling of immersion is utterly awesome!

 

I haven't even played a mission yet, I'm just enjoying pootling around in the P-51 and enjoying the view.

 

One oddity that I am experiencing is that every now and then, for about a second, the Vive placeholder will pop through into the view.

 

Does anyone know what causes this or what I can do to prevent it? There doesn't seem to be any particular thing that causes it - it does, perhaps happen more when I'm entering a banking turn but this may just be a coincidence.

 

Cheers!

 

CptT

 

It's due to no frames updates (stuck game), in this circumstance the SteamVR playground will popup instead of the freeze frame.

It happen when the frame rate is very poor and when the game is stuck doing something (in example while loading the menus, etc.).

There's nothing you can do .. it's a game issue.

[TomCatMucDe]

Same here, i have been using an R9 290 also and its the same issue, pretty much any other game is acceptable, but DCS is still not fully optimized for VR.. so that along with the lower end (for VR) GPU cause it to not work well.

 

Im still deciding which GPU to upgrade too, the 1080 looks good but still pricey or hard to find and im not paying for the "founders edition" crap lol

 

the AMD 480 is remarkably tempting at only $200 its litteraly a fraction of the cost of the 1080, could get three of them for the price of the 1080. but that for another thread.. im still waiting

 

 

 

You are right about the founder edition crap. I personally ordered an MSI gaming edition. But it's out of stock. I suppose that NVIDia Is is ramping now and we will soon she a shorter lead time.

It's expensive you are right. But I want to spend at least 4 years with the same hardware. I don't want to make the same mistake as with the current GPU.

[average_pilot]

One oddity that I am experiencing is that every now and then, for about a second, the Vive placeholder will pop through into the view.

Probably hard drive accesses to load a chunk of map. Try to increase the preload radius on the options.

[Windypants]

Updated HTC Vive Video

 

I made another video of me flying the P-51D with the HTC Vive. In this video I synced the DCS replay which is at 1080p full resolution with my head motion video. You can get a better idea of how the Field of View and presence is in the cockpit. RESOLUTION IN THE HEADSET IS NOT THIS GOOD. I just want to show approximately what it feels and looks like while playing in VR. Hope this gives people a better idea what it feels like to fly with the HTC Vive.