Next aircraft speculation

[didilman]

i can garantee a day one prepurchase as long as it's no WW2 or Korean era jet.

 

Same for me.

[tovivan]

i can garantee a day one prepurchase as long as it's no WW2 or Korean era jet.

 

I can guarantee a day one prepurchase as long as it's a modern Russian jet fighter with modern avionics, radar, missiles, etc. Or a MiG-31 with R-37M.

 

-

 

I namely got a taste of the future last night, what it will be like when Tomcat comes.

 

Took off from Nalchik in 27 with buddy and managed to get to the foothills just south of Nalchik at 1500m alt. Enemy F-14's were about 20km north of Kutaisi at 10km alt. From there they sent us a spam of AIM-54. We never got a launch or lock message, suddenly we're just exploding and falling down in flaming balls.

 

That's a distance of about 200km iirc. At roughly the same distance they also took down our AWACS and tanker that were far back in the "safe" zone, "protected" by SAMs.

 

I don't really care for playing a game where I get killed by an enemy from 200km without even getting an opportunity to evade, much less shoot back.

Edited September 15, 2015 by tovivan

[GaryIKILLYOU]

I can guarantee a day one prepurchase as long as it's a modern Russian jet fighter with modern avionics, radar, missiles, etc. Or a MiG-31 with R-37M.

 

-

 

I namely got a taste of the future last night, what it will be like when Tomcat comes.

 

Took off from Nalchik in 27 with buddy and managed to get to the foothills just south of Nalchik at 1500m alt. Enemy F-14's were about 20km north of Kutaisi at 10km alt. From there they sent us a spam of AIM-54. We never got a launch or lock message, suddenly we're just exploding and falling down in flaming balls.

 

That's a distance of about 200km iirc. At roughly the same distance they also took down our AWACS and tanker that were far back in the "safe" zone, "protected" by SAMs.

 

I don't really care for playing a game where I get killed by an enemy from 200km without even getting an opportunity to evade, much less shoot back.

Not to start a flame war but there's a myriad of things you can do to deny an F-14 a long range shot. Namely getting low. Also using ECM is beneficial in a situation like that. :)

AIM-54s are insanely easy to defeat as well. Just pull more than 8Gs and they can't maintain a lock.

[Nerd1000]

Not to start a flame war but there's a myriad of things you can do to deny an F-14 a long range shot. Namely getting low. Also using ECM is beneficial in a situation like that. :)

AIM-54s are insanely easy to defeat as well. Just pull more than 8Gs and they can't maintain a lock.

 

Its also worth noting that the AIM-54s that are in DCS at the moment have a broken FM and can hit mach 5 at sea level (they share this trait with a few other missiles, including the RIM-66 Standard and the Patriot). They are in no way representative of the real thing or the simulation we're going to get with the F-14 module.

[QuiGon]

Tornado GR and IDS its not the some ?

from WIKI

 

Tornado IDS

Tornado GR1

RAF IDS variants were initially designated the Tornado GR1 with later modified aircraft designated Tornado GR1A, Tornado GR1B, Tornado GR4 and Tornado GR4A. The first of 228 GR1s was delivered on 5 June 1979, and the type entered service in the early 1980s. A total of 142 aircraft were upgraded to GR4 standard from 1997 to 2003.[49]

 

i think u ask for the ADV Air To Air version

 

No, I wasn't talking about the ADV. That thing is a total different story ;)

 

I was indeed talking about IDS<>GR.. Yeah, those two are supposed to be the same, but they're not exactly the same. Maybe the initial versions are pretty much identical, but the versions used today (GR.4 for the RAF, IDS ASSTA 3 for the Luftwaffe) are actually pretty different, because the upgrades that have been done during it's time of service have been done by the respective country on it's own.

 

I don't know in detail the differences between them regarding avionics, but the armament is also pretty different. Some examples:

- To my knowledge the GR.4 has just one cannon lef, because the other one got replaced by a FLIR sensor. The IDS ASSTA 3 still has both cannons.

- The GR. used the Sea Eagle as an anti-ship-missile, while the IDS used the Komoran.

- The GR.4 can use the Brimstone ATGM, while the IDS has no ATGM at all.

[tovivan]

To add something constructive to speculation.

 

LNS said that one of the mystery planes will have ground radar, right?

 

Correct me if wiki's wrong, but doesn't the Russian Bars (N011M) radar (in Su-30) have A-to-G capability? :D

"In the air-to-surface mode the radar is capable of detecting ground and naval based moving targets, determining their location and maintaining a track on two surface targets at once.[1] The N011 is capable of detecting the group of tanks target to a maximum range of 40–50 km and a destroyer sized target to a range of 80–120 km.[1][4] Bars also features a mapping mode using either real beam, doppler beam sharpening or Synthetic aperture radar with a maximum resolution of 10 meters.[1] The Kh-31 anti-radiation missile is also compatible with the radar.[3]"

 

Could this mean they're making a Su-30? :thumbup: Or even Su-34? :pilotfly:

 

If they are I'm gonna love them forever!

 

Not to start a flame war but there's a myriad of things you can do to deny an F-14 a long range shot. Namely getting low. Also using ECM is beneficial in a situation like that. :)

AIM-54s are insanely easy to defeat as well. Just pull more than 8Gs and they can't maintain a lock.

 

Lol, no worries, no-one's gonna flame anyone. :beer:

 

I actually didn't think of using ECM because there was no other enemy group on the map, only these two TCs that were so far I didn't consider them a threat.

 

I didn't see them on radar because they were too far, only knew they were there because of my AWACS (that they then shot down :cry: ). As said was at 1500m alt max and among foothills, both factors I mistakenly believed were enough.

 

The biggest problem I see, next to the fact that they could see me on radar from that range and that his missile actually reached me, is that there was no frantic beeping from my RWR (it was turned on). Phoenix is a semi-active missile, right? Shouldn't it set off the RWR?

 

Its also worth noting that the AIM-54s that are in DCS at the moment have a broken FM and can hit mach 5 at sea level (they share this trait with a few other missiles, including the RIM-66 Standard and the Patriot).

 

Yeah, noticed it's flying awfully fast. Was actually holding my head in desperation. Gonna pull the Tomcats out of that mission, they're too much of a headache right now.

 

Btw., is there any East SAM site capable of shooting down MISSILES, like Patriot does for the West side? I could make the AWACS and the tanker immortal, but where would be the fun in that...

 

They are in no way representative of the real thing or the simulation we're going to get with the F-14 module.

 

Thank you lord! :)

[Jumbik]

Su-30 ... ha you can make the speculation quite fun to follow. :) I would love to see such plane fully modeled.

[Nerd1000]

 

Btw., is there any East SAM site capable of shooting down MISSILES, like Patriot does for the West side? I could make the AWACS and the tanker immortal, but where would be the fun in that...

 

 

The SA-15 Tor shoots down mavericks and other A2G weapons within its relatively short range. The S-300 (Russian Patriot equivalent) should be capable, but I don't know if it will target missiles in-game. You could also try ships- they will target incoming cruise missiles etc.

 

I don't think there's anything that will shoot at A2A weapons (pretty sure even the Patriot won't do that). If you want to make absolutely sure the AWACS doesn't get killed by fighters, you should set his patrol path so that a S-300 battery is between him and any incoming aircraft. That will soon teach fighters to stay far, far away...

 

 

The biggest problem I see, next to the fact that they could see me on radar from that range and that his missile actually reached me, is that there was no frantic beeping from my RWR (it was turned on). Phoenix is a semi-active missile, right? Shouldn't it set off the RWR?

 

 

The AIM-54 is active radar homing like the AIM-120. AFAIK shots while in TWS mode won't make a RWR warning until the missile goes active. From then on, I don't know whether it should create a launch warning or just a lock warning. Probably depends on how good your RWR is.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Nerd1000

[QuiGon]

To add something constructive to speculation.

 

LNS said that one of the mystery planes will have ground radar, right?

 

Correct me if wiki's wrong, but doesn't the Russian Bars (N011M) radar (in Su-30) have A-to-G capability? :D

 

[...]

 

Could this mean they're making a Su-30? :thumbup: Or even Su-34? :pilotfly:

 

If they are I'm gonna love them forever!

 

I'm pretty sure it won't be a Su-30. One reason is, that the new plane is supposed to also have "New or unique methods of propulsion or force distribution", which the Su-30 doesn't have.

[Krupi]

Do you have a reference for that quote?

 

I would like to see it in context :)

[scaflight]

Do you have a reference for that quote?

 

I would like to see it in context :)

 

Top sticky.

 

So... Viggen.

[QuiGon]

Do you have a reference for that quote?

 

I would like to see it in context

Yeah, like scaflight said, it's from Leathernecks September News Update.

[Krupi]

Top sticky.

 

So... Viggen.

 

Yeah, like scaflight said, it's from Leathernecks September News Update.

 

Thanks chaps, I have to admit I am not very familiar with the Viggen, what is unique about its engine propulsion (I am a prop guy so until the Mig 21 have had little interest and therefore understanding of these era jets)!

 

Still really hoping for a Flogger-G

[Python]

Thrust reverse. All you really need to know about the Viggen is this... It's awesome!

 

 

Watch at around the 4:00 mark for a demonstration of said thrust reverse. I was there on this day, you really don't get a sense of the power and noise from videos.

 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Python

[Vampyre]

Thanks chaps, I have to admit I am not very familiar with the Viggen, what is unique about its engine propulsion (I am a prop guy so until the Mig 21 have had little interest and therefore understanding of these era jets)!

 

Still really hoping for a Flogger-G

 

The Viggen has the P&W JT8D engine used in many airliners. The Swedes added an afterburner section to it and manufactured it as the RM8. The power plant is completely conventional with the exception of the thrust reversers. No other aircraft in DCS has actual operational thrust reversers.

[Cool Breeze]

The Viggen has the P&W JT8D engine used in many airliners. The Swedes added an afterburner section to it and manufactured it as the RM8. The power plant is completely conventional with the exception of the thrust reversers. No other aircraft in DCS has actual operational thrust reversers.

The RB.199 of the Tornado is also equipped with thrust reverse! I think I would buy almost anything Leatherneck decided to produce. Much to my wife and wallets dismay!

 

[Ryan Legend]

I'm pretty sure it won't be a Su-30. One reason is, that the new plane is supposed to also have "New or unique methods of propulsion or force distribution", which the Su-30 doesn't have.

 

Then it's obviously a V-22 Osprey. :P

[thaisocom]

Su-30 ... ha you can make the speculation quite fun to follow. :) I would love to see such plane fully modeled.

Su-30 and F-15E would make a nice pair.

[thaisocom]

I'm pretty sure it won't be a Su-30. One reason is, that the new plane is supposed to also have "New or unique methods of propulsion or force distribution", which the Su-30 doesn't have.

Su-30 have thrust vectoring doesn't it?

[mattebubben]

Su-30 have thrust vectoring doesn't it?

Some variants does.

 

The indian SU-30 MKI for example has a degree of thrust vectoring.

 

The Su-30 SM (of wich russia operates around 30)

also has thrust vectoring.

 

Im kinda sceptical of the effectiveness of thrust vectoring though in real combat senarios though.

 

Sure its great for very low speed aerobatics / low speed dogfights.

 

But in reality if ur that slow and ur attacked ur dead anyway.

 

And at higher speeds 600+ km/h the effectiveness is decreased.

 

So while it might be nice to have on an aircraft its far from a game changer in my eyes =P.

[Python]

Sure would be fun though, I love the SU-30, I doubt it is in the running here, but I would like to see ED make one.

[RNeves]

Don't know if LN is actually making the Viggen, but ostriches tend to be more nimble than this aircraft... At least from what i've seen in this video...

[Python]

Don't know if LN is actually making the Viggen, but ostriches tend to be more nimble than this aircraft... At least from what i've seen in this video...

 

Moves pretty well for a big girl to be fair, always impresses at the shows. You probably wouldn't want to run into an F-16, but she's no slouch.

[tovivan]

Su-30 have thrust vectoring doesn't it?

 

Exactly! And contrary to Viggen, it's revolutionary and definitely unique...

 

But in reality if ur that slow and ur attacked ur dead anyway.

 

Harriers from Falkland war would disagree. :thumbup:

 

Also, the 30 has the avionics and weapons to survive (if not kill the enemy) until the target is in dogfight range. And then it dominates. Imagine an F-15 trying to make a circle/loop/whatever where you can at leisure turn the nose far into his path and either let go a 73 or just guns. Or 15 trying to follow you into a loop/circle that you then abort at the top and do a quick spin to let him fly past you and you then using TV to immediately be on his six...

 

From what I've been seeing on the forums there are many more people wanting to fly a modern Russian aircraft that would be able to hold it's own against the flood of super-duper-high-space-tech Western kit coming (Eurofighter, Tomcat, Hornet, Superhornet, Mirage F1, Mirage 2000...). Many people wanting a Russian plane = more money from sales. A niche plane/worse performer like Viggen= less money from sales. :beer:

Though in the end LNS can disappoint us all and come out with something completely third!

 

Moves pretty well for a big girl to be fair, always impresses at the shows.

 

Completely relative. I've met people that impressed me by the simple fact they managed to stop at a red light, but that doesn't mean they were good drivers. :dunno:

Edited September 17, 2015 by tovivan

[Zomba]

I don't know why it's so difficult for you guys to accept the next aircraft as the Sopwith Camel.