Next aircraft speculation

[Krieg]

Also if the viggen is to have chaff dispensers, it needs to be a mid 90's variant :music_whistling:.

Only if you want the BOY-401 dispensers. Real Viggen pilots use the "Kapsel KB" pod in place of weapons. I believe both the KA and KB pods were secret (even to the pilots and planners) during a large part of the cold war however. It is similar to the BOZ-100 pod. The KA pod was later replaced with more modern versions of ECM-pods beginning in the 80's (U22/U22A/U95)

 

The EW versions were as far as i know only planned and never implemented due to budget cuts.

The EW versions were converted Sk37's, called Sk37E. They were part of målflygsdivisionen (a practice unit without any pilots distributed to them in wartime if I recall) and trained other pilots on how to fight in an ECM-environment. It seems highly unlikely we'll see this variant.

 

The SH37 had a slightly modified radar, better at detecting ships at sea, but worse while feet dry. It also had the ability to carry photo recon pods. It often paired up with SF37's due to the SF37's better nosecamera during maritime intercepts.

 

My hopes for a Viggen is maxed out! I don't really care if it's a AJ, JA or AJS variant!

[Sleksa]

My hopes for a Viggen is maxed out! I don't really care if it's a AJ, JA or AJS variant!

 

I think it'd be a really cool addition, but at this point I'd pretty much love any new jet to DCS, and any kind of news from LN on whether the 2 unannounced jets are still in the pipes for their 2015 deadline. Compared to the mirage 2k, they should really be on the final phases by now if they still want to release something this year.

[Greekbull]

I'm just hopeful that we see an announcement soon! Really hope for a pleasant surprise like the F-16 which would be the all time best seller in DCS until basically everyone that buys it buys the F-14...but would also love the Tornado...But honestly as long as it is a Western fighter that doesn't move in slow motion and is multirole...I will be purchasing it...

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

That should answer it

 

I wouldn't exactly imagine that this precludes the air-to-air variants from having ground mapping, as well.

 

Much like other fighters, I'm sure it could drop dumb bombs and carry rocket pods.

[HugePanic]

Is this an appropriate comment?

 

${1}

[Pilum]

Only if you want the BOY-401 dispensers. Real Viggen pilots use the "Kapsel KB" pod in place of weapons. I believe both the KA and KB pods were secret (even to the pilots and planners) during a large part of the cold war however. It is similar to the BOZ-100 pod. The KA pod was later replaced with more modern versions of ECM-pods beginning in the 80's (U22/U22A/U95)

 

The EW versions were converted Sk37's, called Sk37E. They were part of målflygsdivisionen (a practice unit without any pilots distributed to them in wartime if I recall) and trained other pilots on how to fight in an ECM-environment. It seems highly unlikely we'll see this variant.

 

Here is a link to a paper that contains a lot of details on different Swedish indigenous EW equipment of which some hung on the Viggen.

 

Must say I'm surprised by the level of detail, even early JAS39 Gripen systems are covered but since it's been available at the Viking Roost site for years it's probably been suitably vetted.:music_whistling:

 

I know it's in Swedish but don't be discouraged: Just cut n' paste into google translate and you'll get more detailed info on EW than is usually available.

 

Enjoy!

 

http://www.vikingroost.org/pdf/MMrapport__utg_2.pdf

[Pilum]

BTW: Especially note usage of "fast vehicle", i.e. Mini-Cooper to test flares on page 33!

[Krieg]

Interesting report, even giving the frequencies for the U-22 pod! Someone with a bit of knowledge of and/or time to invest in corresponding radars could probably guess the intended targets of ECM-attack.

 

I remember reading that the U-22A was used on some models even after the introduction of the U-95. Presumably because the U-22 pod targeting radars certain models were more likely to encounter. Don't know how true that is though. I believe it was the recon viggens that kept the U-22.

I also remember reading that the capabilities and/or existance of ECM-pods weren't known by military planners!

 

Lovely "fast vehicle" footage! :D (were are my chaff/flare dispensers?) But I thought the Lada Riva had already been confirmed?

[QuiGon]

I wouldn't exactly imagine that this precludes the air-to-air variants from having ground mapping, as well.

 

Much like other fighters, I'm sure it could drop dumb bombs and carry rocket pods.

 

Sure, it probably can drop dumb bombs, but you don't need a ground mapping radar for this. I very much doubt the fighter variant has one, because you usally need the space to fit the A-A radar into the plane. There's not enough not enough room for two radars.

[Dudikoff]

Sure, it probably can drop dumb bombs, but you don't need a ground mapping radar for this. I very much doubt the fighter variant has one, because you usally need the space to fit the A-A radar into the plane. There's not enough not enough room for two radars.

 

What two radars? The same radar is used for both A2A and A2G modes.

[Brisse]

The Interceptor and the Attack variants of the Viggen does not use the same radar. The interceptor is equipped with the Ericsson PS 46/A and the attack variant uses the PS 37/A.

 

PS 46/A is intended only for air to air and has the following features:

X-band Pulse dopper

Look down shoot down capability

Search, track while scan, continuous track and target illumination for the use of Skyflash missiles.

160 hours MTBF

 

PS 37/A

X-band Monopulse

Ground mapping

Limited air to air capability

[Dudikoff]

The Interceptor and the Attack variants of the Viggen does not use the same radar. The interceptor is equipped with the Ericsson PS 46/A and the attack variant uses the PS 37/A.

 

I never said they do; please read more carefully. The post I responded to hinted that A2A and A2G radars are separate single-purpose entities rather than just being operation modes of the same radar.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Dudikoff

[Brisse]

Didn't say you were wrong. I was just putting the facts up there for everyone to see. Most people here probably doesn't know much details of the Viggen. I doubt everyone knows that AJ and JA are equipped with very different radars. Some seem to think it's a multi-role aircraft, when in reality it isn't. Some seem to be hoping that Leatherneck is doing the interceptor variant. That's not going to happen because it doesn't have ground mapping radar and thus doesn't fit the hints. It's still possible that we get both JA and AJ variants though, but it can't be the JA alone.

[Sleksa]

Didn't say you were wrong. I was just putting the facts up there for everyone to see. Most people here probably doesn't know much details of the Viggen. I doubt everyone knows that AJ and JA are equipped with very different radars. Some seem to think it's a multi-role aircraft, when in reality it isn't. Some seem to be hoping that Leatherneck is doing the interceptor variant. That's not going to happen because it doesn't have ground mapping radar and thus doesn't fit the hints. It's still possible that we get both JA and AJ variants though, but it can't be the JA alone.

 

Actually on another forum Cobra said that the 2 unannounced aircraft are "more advanced than the tomcat", so it could mean the following:

 

That there's a ground attack Viggen and a unspesified airplane

That there's a fighter-Viggen and a unspesified airplane with ground radar

That there's 2 sets of Viggen, ground attack and fighter

That the Viggen's been a massive red herring and instead there's a yak-28 as well as yak-38 in the works!

 

:pilotfly:

Edited October 21, 2015 by Sleksa

[assafm25]

51 days for the announcement to be dally

 

i

[Pilum]

Interesting report, even giving the frequencies for the U-22 pod! Someone with a bit of knowledge of and/or time to invest in corresponding radars could probably guess the intended targets of ECM-attack.

 

I remember reading that the U-22A was used on some models even after the introduction of the U-95. Presumably because the U-22 pod targeting radars certain models were more likely to encounter. Don't know how true that is though. I believe it was the recon viggens that kept the U-22.

I also remember reading that the capabilities and/or existance of ECM-pods weren't known by military planners!

 

Lovely "fast vehicle" footage! :D (were are my chaff/flare dispensers?) But I thought the Lada Riva had already been confirmed?

 

Well assuming it's the Viggen, any ECM pods modeled, be it U22 or U95 will be little more than eye candy anyway: currently, ECM jamming in DCS is restricted to simple low power noise jamming with radar burn through achieved at long ranges so basically WW2 level technology.........

 

Finally, If it's not the Lada but a Mini-Cooper I want it in British racing green livery. :yes:

[duko]

IAR-99 would be a very nice plane as a trainer since it has all the modern avionics installed and it will be the perfect ramp for more advanced airplanes.

[Dudikoff]

Didn't say you were wrong. I was just putting the facts up there for everyone to see. Most people here probably doesn't know much details of the Viggen. I doubt everyone knows that AJ and JA are equipped with very different radars. Some seem to think it's a multi-role aircraft, when in reality it isn't.

 

Yeah, it's definitely not. The PS 37 radar seems to only offer some very basic air-to-air mode ("air-to-air telemetry" - sounds like only ranging is available; will be interesting to read more when the manual comes out as the sources are rather sketchy on the Internet).

 

Come to think of it, the author of the original post was probably referring to these two specialized radars not being able to be fitted into the same airframe, but it's still a confusing approach IMHO since if the Sweden really wanted a multirole Viggen variant, they would have developed a true multi-mode radar rather then all these specialized variants. Since the defense budgets were larger than, they could have afforded a larger number of specialized aircraft rather than a smaller number of somewhat more expensive and less optimized multi-role ones.

[Brisse]

Viggen is an old aircraft. It was introduced into service back in 1971 (developed during the 60's) and multi-role wasn't much of a thing back then. That came in the eighties I believe, and by that time, they were already developing the Gripen, which was designed as multi-role from the start. Of course, there were some delays during the development of the Gripen, which lead to some modernisations of the Viggen such as AMRAAM integration on the JA. They never really tuned it into a multi-role aircraft though.

[King_Hrothgar]

I honestly don't get the obsession on this forum for multirole aircraft. What's wrong with pure bombers and pure fighters?

[cichlidfan]

I honestly don't get the obsession on this forum for multirole aircraft. What's wrong with pure bombers and pure fighters?

 

You only have to pay for and learn one aircraft! ;)

 

EDIT: What I don't get is this 169 page thread which probably only serves to entertain Cobra and company.

[Skjold]

Viggen is an old aircraft. It was introduced into service back in 1971 (developed during the 60's) and multi-role wasn't much of a thing back then. That came in the eighties I believe, and by that time, they were already developing the Gripen, which was designed as multi-role from the start. Of course, there were some delays during the development of the Gripen, which lead to some modernisations of the Viggen such as AMRAAM integration on the JA. They never really tuned it into a multi-role aircraft though.

 

Well the AJ? was introduced in 1971, with all the delays and whatnot the actual JA "Jaktvigg" was introduced around 1980.

 

Edit: I do agree with everything else you are saying however.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Skjold

[pepin1234]

I am really disappointed with the idea to development the most modern version of every module, with avionic for the AMRAAM etc. We need late 3Th or early 4Th generation competitor as well.

 

I think is better start with an early avionic version and then add a pack with different avionic. We need simulate some 60/70's scenery too.

Edited October 21, 2015 by pepin1234

[mattebubben]

Well the AJ? was introduced in 1971, with all the delays and whatnot the actual JA "Jaktvigg" was introduced around 1980.

 

Edit: I do agree with everything else you are saying however.

 

well its not really a matter of the fighter viggen being delayed.

 

More of a matter that when the attack viggen was developed (late 60s) there was not real need for the fighter variant.

 

Since the J-35 Draken was more then enough to intercept russian bombers that had the legs to reach sweden.

 

Since the Mig-21s did not have the range to escort bombers in over swedish airspace (and still carry air-air ordnance)

as such the J-35 was sufficient in swedish eyes in the late 60s.

 

When in the early 70s the Mig-23 Su-24 Duo enterd service though things changed slightly.

 

Since now they had a fast Strike aircraft (bomber) and a capable fighter with the legs to escort it.

 

thats when the need for the Fighter viggen started and from that point it only took a few years untill it was ready.

 

From the start of the viggen project they had designed an aircraft that could be modified to be a fighter aswell as an attack aircraft.

 

but the work on the fighter was not.

 

And also they could have pushed a fighter viggen out in early 1970 (close behind the Attack viggen) but it would have been far less advanced.

 

Thus they waited untill it was really needed and developed systems during the time to make it a much more capable aircraft then the Draken.

 

The fighter Viggens air to air Capabillity is much closer to the F-16/Mig-29 etc (of the same time frame ofc) then it is a Mig-23

and when it enterd service in 1980 (First Ja-37 Variant Flew in 77 first Ja-37s where deliverd in late 79 and the first unit with Ja-37s became operational in early 1980)

it was a very capable aircraft in its role of interceptor no matter what you compared it with.

 

It had probably the best Datalink system in the world at that time and an excellent radar together with effective weapons.

 

And even when the Mig-29 and Su-27 enterd service a few years later it could match them easily in a fight (with a far superior data link giving viggens a large advantage in anything but a 1vs1)

 

While if a first Fighter variant had been made in 1970-1975 it would have been less capable and would have had to been upgraded very soon and as such cost unnecessary money.

Edited October 21, 2015 by mattebubben

[Dudikoff]

Viggen is an old aircraft. It was introduced into service back in 1971 (developed during the 60's) and multi-role wasn't much of a thing back then.

 

I know, but the F-4's were kinda multi-role already in the 60's (albeit, without a sophisticated air-to-ground radar).

 

I honestly don't get the obsession on this forum for multirole aircraft. What's wrong with pure bombers and pure fighters?

 

Personally I prefer the Cold War times of the 70's and up to e.g. mid to late 80's when the avionics were advanced enough for precision strike and/or a decent A2A radar set, but not all the fighter cockpits were yet so crammed with similar looking MFD's giving a somewhat similar cockpit experience (e.g. F/A-18 and F-16C) and you still depended on dedicated strike aircraft with a doctrine favoring low-level strikes. Plus the Soviet side aircraft of the era were also nicely specialized and were not THAT far behind (as e.g. afterwards in the 90's).

 

I'd still like a DCS Strike Eagle, though (fond memories of playing the Strike Eagle III on PC).

Edited October 21, 2015 by Dudikoff